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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Bible Study Matt. 25;46
- Thread starter humble soul
- Start date
OK, I see your POV.
And it does seem that most of Jesus' parables were targeting the Pharisees and such leadership.
If you read them carefully Jesus explains each one. It took me awhile to see that as they all teach us important lessons.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
No.
Satan trumped MAN.
The serpent deceived Eve,,,not God.
God cannot be deceived.
God is not a God of calvinism.
He gave man free will to choose.
Man did not lose this free will after the fall.
Free will IS NOT a preterist gift,,,which are:
IMMORTALITY
INFUSED KNOWLEDGE
INTEGRITY
The above gifts were lost after the fall of Adam.
As you can see, and check for yourself free will is NOT a preterist gift and as such was NOT lost after the fall.
I've listed scripture and have done much explaining....
You can adhere to your reformed views if you wish...
But you do not serve a God of love and in your works salvation, you are following the O.T.
and not the N.T.
No need to reply.
You have done above and beyond explaining this and I applauded you and you are spot on. No matter what we say or show in scripture Quantrill is just going to shoot it down as he follows Darby's doctrines and not the doctrines of Christ.
Man will believe another man's teachings for they tickle the ear as they have a carnal understanding that makes sense to them, but yet they neglect the Spiritual things from above in what Jesus has already taught. The spirit of Jezebel runs rampant in the churches today seducing those who are unaware of her devices.
Amen.
Abraham is real.
Hell is real.
The fire is real.
Moses and the prophets are real.
Lazarus is real.
The rich man is real.
JLB
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Hi FHG,
I find that the reformed seem to mention persons more than the bible or Jesus or Paul, etc.
They mention Spurgeon or Sproul or others.
I don't know who Darby is,,,but it's obvious that some follow teachings that are incorrect
instead of checking them out themselves in the bible.
Your last sentence is right on and bothers me very much.
We always hear so and so teaches this or that and I believe them, but how many times do we hear Jesus taught this or that and I believe Him.
But you said the fall was not God's plan. Do you think satan is interested in 'trumping man'? How foolish. Man is the battlefield. satan does what he can with man to get to God.
And, you have satan trumping God because satan thwarted God's plan. Poor God. Do you see? Now what is God going to do? He has to react someway because He just never planned for this. In other words, God is not really God. He is just reacting to things out of his control like any other human would.
And, where is your 'free will' in (John 1:13)?
Quantrill
It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:8
- the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
God foreknew what would happen and had the plan of redemption mapped out before He ever created man.
Knowing before hand does not mean man or angels don’t have the ability to chose good or evil.
JLB
Write out John 1:13 and make your point.
You have made no point.
Why don’t you quote the actual scripture, and tells us what you believe it says ?
JLB
What point does John 1:13 make?
It seems to say from the context that man has a freewill to choose to believe or not.
How do you suppose Satan could ever take sovereignty over God who who holds all power and authority in heaven and on earth. I believe the book of Job teaches us who has the supreme power and authority.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).
God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.
Some do not understand the above passages on predestination. They think that if a person is not of those predestinated, he is just out of luck, is eternally damned, and there is nothing he can do about it. However, it is a particular group or class of people that God chose before the foundation of the world and not individuals. It is up to us to be part of that class of those "in Him" if we want to be of the chosen.
Let me illustrate it this way:
A school teacher on the first day of class told his students that some would pass and some would fail the course they were about to take. He then described the things necessary for one to be of those who would pass. At the end of the school year, just as the teacher had said, some passed and some failed. Since the teacher had predestinated the outcome before he began, does it mean that he caused each individual to either pass or fail and there was nothing they could do about it? Certainly not! It was up to each student to be of whichever group he desired. Likewise, God predetermined before He made the world that He would choose those "in Christ" and now it is up to us to be of those in Christ.
By using our free-will we choose whether to be "in Christ" and thus saved (Gal. 3:26-27). So, we see God's part (His gracious plan of human redemption which is accomplished through the death of Christ), and man's part (faith in Christ, cf. Jas. 2:14-26; Matt. 7:21-23) combining to complete the equation of salvation (Eph. 2:8-9).
Many people teach that man either has no free-will (fatalism) or limited amounts of it. The Bible teaches that every person with a moral capacity has the freedom of will to decide whether or not to obey God. Simply put, the Bible teaches that God elected (predestined or set in place) to save every soul who fears (respects) God and works righteousness, (Acts 10:34-35). That is, before time eternal, God predestined that men would be saved "in Christ" (Eph. 1:3-4, 7-12). God predestined the "plan" of human redemption (cf. Eph. 3:10-11).
God also determined that man would have free-will, the ability and responsibility to choose to obey Him (cf. Gen. 3:1-6; Josh. 24:15; Matt. 11:28). God did not predestine the man (which individuals would be saved & lost), He predestined the plan (how men would be saved) - read again Acts 10:34-35; Eph. 1:3-12; Rom. 8:28-30; 10:9-17.
Some do not understand the above passages on predestination. They think that if a person is not of those predestinated, he is just out of luck, is eternally damned, and there is nothing he can do about it. However, it is a particular group or class of people that God chose before the foundation of the world and not individuals. It is up to us to be part of that class of those "in Him" if we want to be of the chosen.
Let me illustrate it this way:
A school teacher on the first day of class told his students that some would pass and some would fail the course they were about to take. He then described the things necessary for one to be of those who would pass. At the end of the school year, just as the teacher had said, some passed and some failed. Since the teacher had predestinated the outcome before he began, does it mean that he caused each individual to either pass or fail and there was nothing they could do about it? Certainly not! It was up to each student to be of whichever group he desired. Likewise, God predetermined before He made the world that He would choose those "in Christ" and now it is up to us to be of those in Christ.
By using our free-will we choose whether to be "in Christ" and thus saved (Gal. 3:26-27). So, we see God's part (His gracious plan of human redemption which is accomplished through the death of Christ), and man's part (faith in Christ, cf. Jas. 2:14-26; Matt. 7:21-23) combining to complete the equation of salvation (Eph. 2:8-9).
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Quantrill,
From now on, please post my comments to you to which you are replying.
By reading the above, others may think I've stated doctrine, or ideas, I DO NOT believe to be true.
THE FALL
The fall was NOT God's plan.
Because God KNEW man would fall does not mean He planned for man to fall.
If it's impossible for you to understand this...I fear we cannot continue.
Think of this:
You KNOW it's going to rain tomorrow.
Did you CAUSE the rain?
Or did you just KNOW it was going to rain?
God KNEW man would fall...
He did not CAUSE man to fall.
Psalm 139
O Lord, you have searched me and known me! You know when I sit down and when I rise up; you discern my thoughts from afar. You search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways. Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether. You hem me in, behind and before, and lay your hand upon me. ...
SATAN'S WISH FOR MANKIND
You stated that man is the battlefield for satan to get to God.
Are you saying satan is as sovereign as God?
You believe in dualism?
Satan wants our soul.
This is what he wants...for us to be his slaves.
Sin is his domain and he delights in seeing men be lost.
Colossians 2:13-14
13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
We are born lost...belonging to satan.
Jesus died to free us from satan's grip.
Why do you think Jesus had to die for us?
Jesus "bought us back" from satan and we are now His.
JOHN 1:13
11He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
verse 11 Jesus came to the Jews but they did not receive Him as their awaited Messiah.
verse 12 But to those that DID receive Him (accept Him), Jesus gave them the right to become children of God...to all those that believed in His name.
This shows us that we can choose to accept Jesus or to deny Him.
To those that accept Him, He gives the right to be called children of God.
As you can read --- we accept Jesus FIRST and THEN we are called children of God.
First WE BELIEVE
THEN
WE ARE SAVED.
(not the other way around.
verse 13 All those that are saved are reborn. NOT a physical rebirth of blood ....
NOT a rebirth that comes from the ideas or plans of man....
but a rebirth that comes from the plan of God...it is God's will that we be saved and NOT be lost to satan.
IOW,,,,GOD begets us and allows us to be reborn....not man.
Now could you please exegete John 1:13 and your understanding of it?
Thanks.
He can't. But, that doesn't stop him form trying. You are correct. The book of Job reveals this. As does the rest of Scripture. Just as Job's trials were.
This is why the fall of man was always the plan of God. satan isn't trying to do God's will. he is doing it for evil purposes. Much like the Assyrian in (Is. 10:6-7).
Quantrill
Concerning the Fall:
I certainly believe the fall was all part of God's plan. If it wasn't, as I have said, then something occurred outside of God's will. satan messed up God's plan. And I don't believe that.
In other words, Adam and Eve in a pristine environment was not the goal. It was but a means to the goal. That goal being sons, not just made by God, but born of God. And that was not possible without the death and rebirth. (John 12:24).
Much like the Mosaic Law. Many treat it as the goal of God. But it was but a means to the goal. Note what David said when he was repenting for his sins. (Ps. 51:16) "For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt-offering." But the Lord did require the sacrifices. But David saw beyond that. The Mosaic sacrifices were but a means to an end. The end being a broken spirit, and contrite heart. (51:17.
Concerning satan's wish for mankind:
satan will never be 'sovereign' as God, though that is his desire. It doesn't matter that he can't be. he wants to be. And, at this time he certainly has authority over the earth. That authority doesn't exceed God's authority. But he has authority. he is the prince of this world. (2 Cor. 4:4) (Eph. 2:2)
satan has antagonism against man because God is going to usurp satans authority over the world and give it to man, who is much lesser at this time than the angels. (Heb. 1:4-14)
satan uses man to come against God, to be like God. satan seeks rule over the earth through rebellion. But God is going to give it to man, through that Man Jesus Christ, through submission to God.
This I believe is his goal.
Concerning (John 1:13)
Man has a will. And that will is exercised. (John 1:12) "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe." The receiving and believing are one act here, not two.
But, to those who believe and receive Christ, they do so only because God affects their will. He opens their eyes. (Matt. 16:13-17) "...Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." Thus our faith, our believe in Christ is too a gift from God. (Eph. 2:8)
So, (John 1:13) says, "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." It is not just the act of rebirth, but the will is emphasized here. Man's will is excluded. God's will is the deciding factor. Just as (Matt. 16:13-17) says also.
Even your faith is not you making a good decision to follow God. It is God has opened your eyes to see. Your will is acted upon by God. Your will is not free.
Quantrill