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Must the commandments in the O.T. be obeyed in order to be/remain saved?

JLB said:
Let‘s try again, but let’s see how many things are the same in the law of Moses and the New Covenant.


The fulfillment of the law is love, which is promoted and expounded upon in the New Covenant.


On this I hope we can all agree.
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Agreed.,


Yes the “moral law” remains a common thread throughout both the old covenant and the new covenant.
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Agreed.


My main point is the “moral law”, which is the law of love, was always established in the Abrahamic Covenant, the covenant we are under to today, which has been refreshed, or renewed as is now called the new covenant.[/QUOTE]
The New Covenant is always compared to the Mosaic Covenant.
In one we are under the Law....Mosaic
In one we are under grace........New

How was the moral law established in the Abrahamic Covenant?
The Moral Law has been in existence since Adam and Eve.


So with that being said, the law of Moses, which was added until the Seed should come, can indeed be changed, or set aside, removed or abolished, without affecting the core Covenant it was added to.


JLB
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Any part of any Covenant can be set aside, changed, abolished.
This is why there are new covenants---because they add something important or change something.

How has the Abrahamic Covenant been refreshed or renewed?
Why are you not comparing the New to the Mosaic?
 
wondering said:
How was the moral law established in the Abrahamic Covenant?
Click to expand...

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1


  • walk before Me and be blameless.


Here are other ways of saying “walk before Me and be blameless.“


  • Walk with me and be blameless.
  • Walk in My Presence and be blameless
  • Walk in My Spirit and you will not fulfill your fleshly desire to disobey Me
  • Walk with Me and be lead and taught by My Spirit
  • Walk in the light as I am in the light
  • Draw near to Me and dwell in My Presence


The result of Abraham walking with God in covenant relationship


Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.
Genesis 26:5




JLB
 
wondering said:
Why are you not comparing the New to the Mosaic?
Click to expand...

Because the New Covenant is not like the law of Moses.


For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Hebrews 8:7-10


JLB
 
JLB said:
Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.
Genesis 26:5
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I always found this facinating.
Exodus 6:3
English Standard Version
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.

We see a progression of how God reveals himself through the generations. The Patriarchs knew Him as El Shaddia, (so) yet Moses and the Israelites knew Him as YHVH and today, we know Him through His Son.
 
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StoveBolts said:
I always found this facinating.
Exodus 6:3
English Standard Version
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them.

We see a progression of how God reveals himself through the generations. The Patriarchs knew Him as El Shaddia, (so) yet Moses and the Israelites knew Him as YHVH and today, we know Him through His Son.
Click to expand...


Amen and Amen!


I for one am so greatful that our mighty God loves us.

He wants us to know Him.


Just amazing!!!!



JLB
 
JLB said:
Why is saying the law of commandments contained in ordinances is referring to the law of Moses, so frustrating?



JLB
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Because in post no. 79 you said this:
The law of Commandments contained in ordnance’s refers to the law of Moses.

And I've been trying to show that the Law of Moses HAS BEEN ABOLISHED,,,except for the Moral Law.

The Moral Law will never be abolished,,,
We could call that the 10 commandments,
and there's more, as you've stated.
 
wondering said:
And I've been trying to show that the Law of Moses HAS BEEN ABOLISHED,,,except for the Moral Law.
Click to expand...

The law of Moses has been abolished; ie set aside, made to be obsolete.

God’s eternal law of love will never be abolished.


Example;


The Constitution and Bill of Rights establish the law that governs our land.


If a law such as Obamacare is added to our laws then later removed it certainly doesn’t mean the Constitution and Bill of Rights is removed.



JLB
 
JLB said:
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1


  • walk before Me and be blameless.


Here are other ways of saying “walk before Me and be blameless.“


  • Walk with me and be blameless.
  • Walk in My Presence and be blameless
  • Walk in My Spirit and you will not fulfill your fleshly desire to disobey Me
  • Walk with Me and be lead and taught by My Spirit
  • Walk in the light as I am in the light
  • Draw near to Me and dwell in My Presence


The result of Abraham walking with God in covenant relationship


Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.
Genesis 26:5




JLB
Click to expand...
Well, I've been saying all along that the commandments were BEFORE Moses and even before Abraham.

However, the 10 were given to Moses written in stone in the book of Exodus,,,,and we refer to the Mosaic Covenant for the commandments.
 
JLB said:
Because the New Covenant is not like the law of Moses.


For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Hebrews 8:7-10


JLB
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JLB,,,,I feel like you're not listening to me.
I asked you why you don't compare the New Covenant to the Mosaic Covenant (which is normally done) instead of comparing it to the Abrahamic Covenant.

Your answer is that they are not the same.
Right....that's why we compare things..because they are not the same.
 
JLB said:
The law of Moses has been abolished; ie set aside, made to be obsolete.

God’s eternal law of love will never be abolished.


Example;


The Constitution and Bill of Rights establish the law that governs our land.


If a law such as Obamacare is added to our laws then later removed it certainly doesn’t mean the Constitution and Bill of Rights is removed.



JLB
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I agree.

Except YOU are calling it the Law of Love....
and I'm calling it what it's called: The Moral Law.

We're discussing wording and I think it's not producing any good result.
 
wondering said:
I agree.

Except YOU are calling it the Law of Love....
and I'm calling it what it's called: The Moral Law.

We're discussing wording and I think it's not producing any good result.
Click to expand...


The way we avoid problems of dispute is to stick to biblical words and terms.


JLB
 
wondering said:
JLB,,,,I feel like you're not listening to me.
I asked you why you don't compare the New Covenant to the Mosaic Covenant (which is normally done) instead of comparing it to the Abrahamic Covenant.
Click to expand...

The New Covenant is the refreshed Abrahamic Covenant.

The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed should come.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19
 
JLB said:
The way we avoid problems of dispute is to stick to biblical words and terms.


JLB
Click to expand...
That's not how a person studies.
When you study theology the Moral Law is studied.
A person can't say to the instructor...WAIT, THAT TERM IS NOT IN THE BIBLE.
Is TRINITY in the bible?
Is HYPOSTATIC UNION in the bible?

You cannot expect everyone to follow your rules.
There is a Moral Law in the bible from Genesis onward.

A rose by any other name....

I mean, ideally, I agree with you.
We also should all be using the same VERSION of the bible.
That would also be helpful.

But is this practical?
No.
 
JLB said:
The New Covenant is the refreshed Abrahamic Covenant.

The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant until the Seed should come.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19
Click to expand...
Was the law in the Abrahamic Covenant
or in the Mosaic Covenant?
 
wondering said:
Was the law in the Abrahamic Covenant
or in the Mosaic Covenant?
Click to expand...

Every covenant has laws or rules or commandments that each party must abide by.


Abraham was faithful to walk in covenant relationship and to abide by the laws, commandments and precepts that the Lord taught him.


Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
Genesis 26:5


The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant BECAUSE the laws, commandments and precepts of the Abrahamic Covenant were being violated; ie TRANSGRESSED.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made;... Galatians 3:19


Since the covenant was being transgressed the law of Moses was added, until the Messiah should come and inaugurate the New Covenant; The law of Christ



JLB
 
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