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Must the commandments in the O.T. be obeyed in order to be/remain saved?

Truthfrees said:
the laws of moses are the laws God gave moses and he wrote them down

moses did not make up any laws on his own - he only recorded what God told him

Jesus said the same thing about himself - John 5:19 - John 12:49
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Which laws of the law of Moses are we as the Church required to observe?


JLB
 
jerry63935 said:
no one has yet to explain the law is holy in romans 7
Romans 7:12-14 King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Barnes's Romans 7:12 Bible Commentary
Wherefore - So that. The conclusion to which we come is, that the Law is not to be blamed, though these are its effects under existing circumstances. The source of all this is not the Law, but the corrupt nature of man. The Law is good; and yet the position of the apostle is true, that it is not adapted to purify the heart of fallen man. Its tendency is to excite increased guilt, conflict, alarm, and despair. This verse contains an answer to the question in Romans 7:7, "Is the law sin?"

Is holy - Is not sin; compare Romans 7:7. It is pure in its nature.

And the commandment - The word "commandment" is here synonymous with the Law. It properly means what is enjoined.

Holy - Pure.

Just - Righteous in its claims and penalties. It is not unequal in its exactions.

Good - In itself good; and in its own nature tending to produce happiness. The sin and condemnation of the guilty is not the fault of the Law. If obeyed, it would produce happiness everywhere. See a most beautiful description of the law of God in Psalm 19:7-11.
Wesley's Romans 7:12 Bible Commentary
7:12 The commandment - That is, every branch of the law. Is holy, and just, and good - It springs from, and partakes of, the holy nature of God; it is every way just and right in itself; it is designed wholly for the good of man.
i like this version
Romans 7:12-14 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)
12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and just and good. 13 Therefore, did what is good become death to me? Absolutely not! But sin, in order to be recognized as sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that through the commandment, sin might become sinful beyond measure.

The Problem of Sin in Us
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh,[a] sold as a slave under sin.
so the laws has its purpose but as stated can not produce righteousness
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Again, though you have made some good points, Romans 7 should be viewed through this context —


Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. Romans 7:1-4


Key Verses —


  • brethren (for I speak to those who know the law),

Gentiles were never under the law of Moses.

  • Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another

To those whom Paul was speaking, those who know the law, Jews, are now dead to the law, so that they may be married to Him who is raised from the dead.




JLB
 
JLB said:
Which laws of the law of Moses are we as the Church required to observe?
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the observation comes as it points towards sin . i found these scriptures
Galatians 3:19

Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

Galatians 3:24

Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 8:3-4
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

James 2:10

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

Galatians 3:21

Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

Romans 7:7

What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Galatians 2:16

nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians 3:10-11
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.”

Romans 3:28

For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Galatians 2:21

I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”

Romans 10:4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

2 Corinthians 3:6-18
who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?read more.
Romans 7:12

So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

. the main issue is the law is there while we dont want to live by the law . nor does anyone want to be a legalist . all i can say is there is a purpose imo it should all point towards Christ . i certainly do NOT want to be accused of strange fire or using it of purpose
 
jerry63935 said:
no but it does have a effect in some way
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The law of Moses was a dividing wall that separated Jew from Gentile.

Circumcised from uncircumcised.

It had to be “broken down” in order to bring forth
one new man.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16


JLB
 
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jerry63935 said:
what does the law is Holy mean to you? i
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It means the law is holy.

What does dead to the law mean to you?

If a person is dead to something then they are not involved with that which they are dead to.



JLB
 
1 John 3:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. your answer !

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
 
jerry63935 said:
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
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Yes. So true.

Does this mean we sacrifice animals to be pure ?


For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Titus 2:11-14


Are we purified by the works of the law?


Are keep the law of Moses or the law of Christ?


I do respect your attitude and position of promoting that we are to obey His commandments.




JLB
 
jerry63935 said:
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. your answer !
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Is it a sin to eat pork, or shrimp?

Is it a sin to eat bread with yeast the week before the Passover?

Is it a sin to cook on Saturday?



JLB
 
jerry63935 said:
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. your answer !
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It is a sin to lie, commit adultery, steal, murder....


Did you also know it’s a sin to hate your brother?


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Anything that does harm to another is a sin.


Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10



JLB
 
JLB said:
Does this mean we sacrifice animals to be pure ?
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what does hebrews say ? this is not a court of law. the animal sacrifices pointed towards Christ sacrifice. The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Hebrews 10:1

Colossians 2: 16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ. Hebrews 8: 4Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are already priests who offer gifts according to the law. 5They serve at a copy and shadow of the heavenly sanctuary. That is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle, “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6Now, however, Jesus has received a much more excellent ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is better and is founded on better promises.…

Is it a sin
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james said to him who knows to do good and dont is it a sin. BTW no more silly off the wall questions just to prove your point. i have took the time to post scriptures they can speak for themselves. nothing personal but discuss scriptures i iron sharpens iron


this is all word i am not going to answer any questions on the law about sacrifices i covered that
 
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