Bible Study Must we be born again?

[stovebolts]

am not sure what troubles you and Jb in regard to what I wrote.

sincere regret or remorse for wrongdoing
a pledge of a good conscience towards God

I know this wasn't directed at me, but let me ask you this.
A father had two sons and he told each son to do a task. The first son said yes, but didn't do the task. The second son said no, but did the task.

Which son did the Fathers will?

 

[Randy]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but let me ask you this.
A father had two sons and he told each son to do a task. The first son said yes, but didn't do the task. The second son said no, but did the task.

Which son did the Fathers will?

As was written the son who did the task. How does that take away from what I wrote?

 

[Randy]

!! Right.
Who could be more saved then him???!
This might make a good thread in theology....
How persons were saved before Jesus.

With light comes accountability.
"Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.


Such light is given to the living not the dead. Obviously there are those who died pregospel and even apart from the Lord who would be grandfathered into Jesus according to the will of God.

My answers are for post gospel and for the living.

 

[Randy]

There are theological problems with your post.
But I don't think you care to get into it. Which is fine with me.
I like to learn if I'm wrong about something, but not all of us are the same. What follows are accepted Christian beliefs and not my own opinion...any Christian church should believe in the following...

Here are the problems:
The meaning of the word SANCTIFIED.
We are NOT sanctified in Jesus. We are JUSTIFIED in Jesus.

REPENT does not mean what you think it means.
I and JLB have explained what it means...but you don't accept it. OK.

BAPTISM does not save....God saves us, but it is necessary to be baptized. It sounds like you may think that baptism saves.

I stated sanctified by FAITH in Jesus as I read.
I don't disagree with justified as well.
The head of the body of Christ to Paul
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me

 

[stovebolts]

As was written the son who did the task. How does that take away from what I wrote?

If a tree bears fruit, has it taken away from the tree, or was it the purpose of the tree all along?

 

[Randy]

If a tree bears fruit, has it taken away from the tree, or was it the purpose all along?

What? A good tree bears good fruit.
In regard to us it is in Jesus we live are held together and are sustained for ever. He is the true vine that nourishes the branches.

 

[JLB]

I am not sure what troubles you and Jb in regard to what I wrote.

sincere regret or remorse for wrongdoing
a pledge of a good conscience towards God

If a person regrets their wrong doing, but never turns to God in submission to Jesus Christ as Lord, but just continues in the same wrongdoing and the same remorse, are they ever going to be regenerated in which they are no longer a slave to this vicious cycle of shame and regret?


IOW, for us His people to be in unity, then the words that make up His doctrine needs to mean what the Bible indicates it means.

If we misunderstand the meaning of His words, then we may very well misunderstand the meaning of His doctrine, in which we transgress it.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9






JLB

 

[JLB]

What? A good tree bears good fruit.
In regard to us it is in Jesus we live are held together and are sustained for ever. He is the true vine that nourishes the branches.

Yes, Jesus is the Vine and we are the branches.

He sustains us, which is why He encourages us to remain in Him.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how this same John instructs us to remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

 

[Randy]

If a person regrets their wrong doing, but never turns to God in submission to Jesus Christ as Lord, but just continues in the same wrongdoing and the same remorse, are they ever going to be regenerated in which they are no longer a slave to this vicious cycle of shame and regret?


IOW, for us His people to be in unity, then the words that make up His doctrine needs to mean what the Bible indicates it means.

If we misunderstand the meaning of His words, then we may very well misunderstand the meaning of His doctrine, in which we transgress it.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9






JLB

Those called children in Revelation are those who obey Gods commands AND hold to the testimony to Jesus. (Faith in Jesus is required for sanctification) As I stated to those who object they don't need Jesus, those who believe they can just ask God for forgiveness, "its not for you to choose how to forgive sin)

Does one remain in the vine by works or by obedience to Jesus commands? Are they nourished by their obedience or by the true vine?

 

[stovebolts]

What? A good tree bears good fruit.
In regard to us it is in Jesus we live are held together and are sustained for ever. He is the true vine that nourishes the branches.

So, if a son says he wouldn't do the task, yet does the task what does that tell us about repentance?

 

[stovebolts]

Does one remain in the vine by works or by obedience to Jesus commands? Are they nourished by their obedience or by the true vine?

Jesus said to the Samaritan woman, if you knew who I am, you would ask me for water and I would give you living water.

Those who are hungry and those who are thirsty are those who remain nourished.

It's a matter of desire.

 

[Randy]

So, if a son says he wouldn't do the task, yet does the task what does that tell us about repentance?

A change of heart. Obedience in this case.

 

[Randy]

Jesus said to the Samaritan woman, if you knew who I am, you would ask me for water and I would give you living water.

Those who are hungry and those who are thirsty are those who remain nourished.

It's a matter of desire.

I would state its the one who remains in Jesus is nourished. The water was freely given. As what God gives He gives freely but what one receives from man they might have to work hard for.

 

[JLB]

Jesus said to the Samaritan woman, if you knew who I am, you would ask me for water and I would give you living water.

Those who are hungry and those who are thirsty are those who remain nourished.

It's a matter of desire.

well said.
So true.

 

[JLB]

I would state its the one who remains in Jesus is nourished. The water was freely given. As what God gives He gives freely but what one receives from man they might have to work hard for.

You also make a good point.

And so we see it is those who are hungry and thirsty, are the ones most likely to remain in Him, knowing it is from Him they will be nourished with His life.



JLB

 

[stovebolts]

I would state its the one who remains in Jesus is nourished. The water was freely given. As what God gives He gives freely but what one receives from man they might have to work hard for.

Jesus said to give to Cesar what is Cesar's and give to God what is Gods.

Did you know that when Jesus was born, it was in the city called "House of bread"? And did you also know that a manger was not a feeding trough, but rather it was used to water?

And so it seems appropriate that Jesus is the bread of life and the living water and all who are hungry and all who are thirsty come to him.

As a result, when we sin, we should feel remorseful, and we should seek a cleansed conscience as these are moving us toward repentance. If we use the analogy of the tree, these are the roots and trunk, but the purpose of the tree is to produce something which will provide nourishment or as put elsewhere in scripture, healing.

Does fruit take away from the tree? No, the tree was designed to produce fruit.

James puts it this way... Don't just be hearers of the word, be doers.

 

[stovebolts]

well said.
So true.

You can't go wrong when you stick close to the author and perfector of our soul... In other words, Jesus said it, not me so I can't take credit.

 

[GodsGrace]

I stated sanctified by FAITH in Jesus as I read.
I don't disagree with justified as well.
The head of the body of Christ to Paul
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me

If we are BOTH justified by Jesus AND sanctified by Jesus,,,
then what is the reason for using two different words?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time....
I just kind of wish we were all on the same page with the meaning of words. I know JLB is interested in this, and, frankly, so am I. I see some posters wasting time with many posts before they even really understand each other.

Everything you've stated about being born again is right...so I'm REALLY not arguing with you.

 

[GodsGrace]

A change of heart. Obedience in this case.

Repent:
A change of heart
A change of mind
Deciding to go the other way

Obedience comes AFTER repentance
Forgiveness comes WITH repentance

 

[stovebolts]

Obedience comes AFTER repentance

Can you please give me an example of what repentance looks like where obedience comes after.

Perhaps you could tell us what obedience is.