Bible Study Must we be born again?

[GodsGrace]

Can you please give me an example of what repentance looks like where obedience comes after.

Perhaps you could tell us what obedience is.

First comes repentance
Then comes obedience.

We repent,,,we change our mind and wish to serve God...
we change our direction so we could walk with God.

AFTER we repent and become born again...
we will be required to obey God.

BEFORE we were born again,,,we were lost.
It didn't matter to us to obey God; some don't believe in Him or some deny or reject God in some way....
If someone is lost, obedience is not necessary...they're lost.

When we are born again we actually then will obey God because it is necessary, but also because we will want to because of the change that should be taking place in us. We will be as new persons. We renew ourselves every chance we get (usually!)
Romans 12:1
2 Corinthians 5:17

What is obedience?
To me it's obeying the two great commandments Jesus left us with and would cover all 10.
When we obey, we don't sin...we don't miss the mark.
But we don't always obey.

There might be a better explanation.
i.e. Doing as God would wish us to do....

 

[stovebolts]

First comes repentance
Then comes obedience.

We repent,,,we change our mind and wish to serve God...
we change our direction so we could walk with God.

AFTER we repent and become born again...
we will be required to obey God.

BEFORE we were born again,,,we were lost.
It didn't matter to us to obey God; some don't believe in Him or some deny or reject God in some way....
If someone is lost, obedience is not necessary...they're lost.

When we are born again we actually then will obey God because it is necessary, but also because we will want to because of the change that should be taking place in us. We will be as new persons. We renew ourselves every chance we get (usually!)
Romans 12:1
2 Corinthians 5:17

What is obedience?
To me it's obeying the two great commandments Jesus left us with and would cover all 10.
When we obey, we don't sin...we don't miss the mark.
But we don't always obey.

There might be a better explanation.
i.e. Doing as God would wish us to do....

I don't think you understood my question.
Give me an example.... Share a biblical story that illustrates repentance, forgivness and obedience in that order.

 

[Randy]

If we are BOTH justified by Jesus AND sanctified by Jesus,,,
then what is the reason for using two different words?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time....
I just kind of wish we were all on the same page with the meaning of words. I know JLB is interested in this, and, frankly, so am I. I see some posters wasting time with many posts before they even really understand each other.

Everything you've stated about being born again is right...so I'm REALLY not arguing with you.

Many words. I don't think we are far apart. Jesus stated a people sanctified by faith in Him. So that's OK with me to state likewise with confidence. -my source

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't think you understood my question.
Give me an example.... Share a biblical story that illustrates repentance, forgivness and obedience in that order.

Oh.
OK.

Repentance is easy. Anyone that decided to follow Jesus.
Jesus came to save sinners, not the righteous.
Mathew 9:13
Sinners had to change their mind and follow Jesus.

One of these sinners was the Apostle Matthew. He was a tax collector and they were known to steal money from persons and to be very unfair with them. Matthew left his tax office and followed Jesus and became an honest person.
Mathew 9:9

We also read in Luke 19:1-10 about the story of Zaccheus.
Those who were with Jesus as He walked through town did not understand how He could invite a sinner to have dinner with Him. The Pharisees, for instance, did not associate with known "sinners". Zacceus was also a tax gatherer but he repented and thus was converted to be a disciple of Jesus.
Luke 19:7-8

Forgiveness is God forgiving the person that has repented.
1 John 1:9 tells us that God will forgive all our sins if we are sorry for them.

Isaiah 43:25 tells us that God does not even remember our sins.
To forgive is human....
To forget Divine !

Acts 3:19 has both the element of repenting and forgiveness.
"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;


Obedience
Once we become born again, God requires that we obey Him.

John 14:15 states that if we love Jesus we will obey Him.

James 1:22
22But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.

If we don't do what the Word says,,,we are deluding ourselves and are not friends of God.

Luke 6:27-31 tell us in what way we can obey God:
27“But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29“Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.
30“Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back.
31“Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.

 

[stovebolts]

One of these sinners was the Apostle Matthew. He was a tax collector and they were known to steal money from persons and to be very unfair with them. Matthew left his tax office and followed Jesus and became an honest person.
Mathew 9:9

All of the Apostles were hand chosen by Jesus, even Judas.

Tell me about Levi. Show me the point from the biblical texts we're he repented, was forgiven and was born again.

 

[Randy]

Lets cut through all the red tape

Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

3At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”

4Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” 7Then the man got up and went home. 8When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.

 

[stovebolts]

Lets cut through all the red tape

Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralyzed man, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the man, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.”

3At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!”

4Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” 7Then the man got up and went home. 8When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to man.

Amen, and what you have bolded cuts to the matter.
Faith is believing and believing is doing. They work together.
Sometimes I think we tend to over think the simplicity these stories teach.

 

[GodsGrace]

Many words. I don't think we are far apart. Jesus stated a people sanctified by faith in Him. So that's OK with me to state likewise with confidence. -my source

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Yes Randy,,,,your source is excellent !

I'll just say this:
If you notice even in your verse above both words are used...so apparently they must mean something different:
You were washed, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus.....

Also, we're dealing with a translation and it took some theologians to figure out the difference between the two words.
Justification means that you have chosen to serve God and you immediately become justified...which is a legal term meaning Not Guilty. God declares you saved and a son of God. There is nothing you can do to justify yourself since God needs nothing from anyone.

Sanctification starts as soon as you are saved and justified.
Sanctified means to be set apart for the work of God.
This just means that you'll obey God and do His good works and deeds which He would have you to do -- whatever they are. Actually, we could say that any good deed we do we do for God.

So, in doctrine we're not far apart at all...
only in our language.

 

[GodsGrace]

All of the Apostles were hand chosen by Jesus, even Judas.

Tell me about Levi. Show me the point from the biblical texts we're he repented, was forgiven and was born again.

Judas was saved and then lost.
I thought you asked for lost and then saved.

As to Levi....I don't gain my knowledge from the bible alone.
Matthew is written of in many books that are written about Jesus.
There are also books about only Matthew and the other Apostles, including Paul.

Tax collectors were not liked, as I posted.

According to the Gospels, Levi was a 1st-century Galilean (presumably born in Galilee, which was not part of Judea or the Roman Iudaea province), the son of Alphaeus.[4] As a tax collector he would have been literate in Aramaic and Greek.[5][6][7][8] His fellow Jews would have despised him for what was seen as collaborating with the Roman occupation force.[9]

After his call, Matthew invited Jesus home for a feast. On seeing this, the Scribes and the Pharisees criticized Jesus for eating with tax collectors and sinners. This prompted Jesus to answer, "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Tax collectors were known as being sinners, as is stated by the Pharisees at the dinner feast with Jesus at Matthew's home.

Matthew 9:10-12 refers to Matthew feast as having "other unreputable sinners".

 

[stovebolts]

to Levi....I don't gain my knowledge from the bible alone.

And you know me well enough to know that I'm ok with that.
If I could challenge you to dig a bit deeper, I'm sure you can find a suitable story that illustrates these principals.

If you want to know what I'm digging for, it's this.

The Bible was written from a Jewish perspective by Jewish authors. (Yes, I believe Luke was Jewish but that's another matter). Jews speak in pictures to the heart and the Apostles wrote from a position of understanding the stories that shaped their thinking. Surely there are enough stories within the Bible that can clearly illustrate your perspective and I'm simply pushing you to think of one that illustrates these principals. If you can find one in the OT that's a bonus.

 

[GodsGrace]

And you know me well enough to know that I'm ok with that.
If I could challenge you to dig a bit deeper, I'm sure you can find a suitable story that illustrates these principals.

If you want to know what I'm digging for, it's this.

The Bible was written from a Jewish perspective by Jewish authors. (Yes, I believe Luke was Jewish but that's another matter). Jews speak in pictures to the heart and the Apostles wrote from a position of understanding the stories that shaped their thinking. Surely there are enough stories within the Bible that can clearly illustrate your perspective and I'm simply pushing you to think of one that illustrates these principals. If you can find one in the OT that's a bonus.

Well, if someone is forgiven, they are also born again...
Before we had been discussing obedience and I do believe you meant obedience and not "born again" as the third condition.

David comes to mind. He sinned, repented, was forgiven and tried to obey God. Jonah would be another person. What about Abraham....but were they lost at first? Did they have to repent?
I don't believe so....It seems that from the O.T. they were inspired by God and obeyed Him, which is different as I understand what you're looking for.

 

[JLB]

Well, if someone is forgiven, they are also born again...
Before we had been discussing obedience and I do believe you meant obedience and not "born again" as the third condition.

David comes to mind. He sinned, repented, was forgiven and tried to obey God. Jonah would be another person. What about Abraham....but were they lost at first? Did they have to repent?
I don't believe so....It seems that from the O.T. they were inspired by God and obeyed Him, which is different as I understand what you're looking for.

Abraham is a good example, except we see that he was justified because he obeyed, not after.


That’s why Paul calls it the obedience of faith.



JLB


Even if you don’t agree with me, I like the discussion that is going on here.