New Jerusalem Temple, is it literal?

[Jim Parker]

We do read in many prophecy books and teachings that a temple will be built in Jerusalem and the anti-christ will be sitting in it.

Yeah, well, that sells lots of books and CDs and gets the authors invited to bring their Power Point charts and speak and fill the pews with check writers with itchy ears.

Luk 18:8b Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

I don't think God is still in the market for sacrifices. Vacancy has been filled.

right

and

"....blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved..."

 

[Jim Parker]

they are likely to attempt rebuilding the temple

https://www.templeinstitute.org/

 

[smaller]

right

and

"....blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved..."

There aren't going to be any more "daily sacrifices" acceptable to God, as done in the O.T. and finished with Jesus Christ. Any that are done won't matter and are irrelevant.

And do you really believe Paul's statements in Romans 11:25-32? I do fwiw. And by all, meaning all of them, start to finish, from Abraham to the last Israelite, even enemies of the Gospel, past to future tense, as it pertains to Israel, Romans 11 vs. 28.

Kinda blows both freewill and most forms of determinism cleanly out of the theological water.

 

[Sinthesis]

God rejected the atonement of Israel each Yom Kippur for a generation because the red ribbon never changed color after the crucifixion of Christ until the destruction of the actual Jewish Temple in 70AD. There is no reason to think any new blood sacrifices in a hypothetical temple or walmart parking lot would be any more acceptable.

 

[eddif]

Revelation 21:22 KJV
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

And you have to go back to the first of the chapter to understand.
Revelation 21:2 KJV
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

eddif

 

[Eugene]

And where does this verse say antichrist.? I took your post to be in reply to my question?

Dear Sister reba, that which most refer to as the antichrist is actually the beast, the man of sin, or that abomination of desolation that sitteth in the temple. You are right, but although antichrist is not his name, He will in fact be antichrist.

2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (The example being Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego now bowing to the image of Nebuchadnezzor in the third chapter of Daniel).
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (what they put up as holy, although the beast will attempt to be worshipped as the holy place that only God deserves), (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Somewhere in all that end time there will undoubtedly be some form of reconstructed temple which I think will be part of the covenant made with those of that time to appease them to follow him after the daily sacrifice was taken from them at the beginning of the tribulation (Dan 12:11).
Enough.

 

[Sinthesis]

2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

How could there possibly be another literal physical Temple of God? Who would God ever instruct to build it? It would have to be someone as great or greater than Solomon or Cyrus in order to be legitimately God's Temple.

 

[Jim Parker]

There aren't going to be any more "daily sacrifices" acceptable to God, as done in the O.T. and finished with Jesus Christ. Any that are done won't matter and are irrelevant.

You're barking up the wrong tree. I'm not offering any "daily sacrifices." Some Jews who take the Torah seriously are. Go talk to them.

And do you really believe Paul's statements in Romans 11:25-32? I do fwiw.

That's nice. But the topic is the "New Jerusalem Temple, Is it literal?"
[/QUOTE] Kinda blows both freewill and most forms of determinism cleanly out of the theological water.[/QUOTE]
Apparently, it works for you. Individual mileage may vary.
But, again, that's another topic entirely.

iakov the fool

 

[reba]

Dear Sister reba, that which most refer to as the antichrist is actually the beast, the man of sin, or that abomination of desolation that sitteth in the temple. You are right, but although antichrist is not his name, He will in fact be antichrist.

2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (The example being Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego now bowing to the image of Nebuchadnezzor in the third chapter of Daniel).
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (what they put up as holy, although the beast will attempt to be worshipped as the holy place that only God deserves), (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Somewhere in all that end time there will undoubtedly be some form of reconstructed temple which I think will be part of the covenant made with those of that time to appease them to follow him after the daily sacrifice was taken from them at the beginning of the tribulation (Dan 12:11).
Enough.

I just do get how we people think we can change God's Word.. to suit ourselves

that which most refer to as the antichrist is actually the beast

How about being respectful to His Word and calling a beast a beast... ?

Somewhere in all that end time there will undoubtedly be some form of reconstructed temple which I think will be part of the covenant made with those of that time to appease them to follow him after the daily sacrifice was taken from them at the beginning of the tribulation (Dan 12:11).
Enough.

All this time i have been thinking God took the daily sacrifice away from them about 70 AD .. when 'this' generation was done..
Who is your 'him' in the above paragraph?

 

[Eugene]

How could there possibly be another literal physical Temple of God? Who would God ever instruct to build it? It would have to be someone as great or greater than Solomon or Cyrus in order to be legitimately God's Temple.

Hi Brother Sinthesis, any type of rebuilding of a temple will only be holy to those building it, just as the beast sitting in it as he is God certainly doesn’t make him God. To me, even the sacrifices after Jesus’ death certainly had no validity in the temple in Jerusalem.

The fact remains that there is not a temple needed to sacrifice as shown by:
After seventy years captivity, the first thing Israel did was to return to Jerusalem and build an altar to sacrifice; the temple had been burned according to 2 Chronicles 36:19. Ezra 3:2-3 Then stood up Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and his brethren the priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and his brethren, and builded the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings thereon, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God. 3 And they set the altar upon his bases; for fear was upon them because of the people of those countries: and they offered burnt offerings thereon unto the LORD, even burnt offerings morning and evening.

The temple was not rebuilt yet. Ezra 3:4-6 They kept also the feast of tabernacles, as it is written, and offered the daily burnt offerings by number, according to the custom, as the duty of every day required; 5 And afterward offered the continual burnt offering, both of the new moons, and of all the set feasts of the LORD that were consecrated, and of every one that willingly offered a freewill offering unto the LORD. 6 From the first day of the seventh month began they to offer burnt offerings unto the LORD. But the foundation of the temple of the LORD was not yet laid.

When will such a need again be needed? Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (This will be 30 days prior to the temptation to come upon all the world, and the time reaching to the time the beast sits in the temple). Who takes it away? I think it is the False Prophet, and soon after the Beast makes a covenant with them in Dan 9:27 And he (Who of what prince?) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Without a temple, presently the Jews have taken the scripture of Hosea 14:2 as sacrifice. ". . we render the calves of our lips." This is much like Hebrews 13:15. "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name."
My thoughts. Thanks for the question.

 

[reba]

The trouble i have with this part of Dispensationalism is how it negates the Cross of Christ.. His Words.. He is the Temple.. With out God making it so no building is holy..

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Heb 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

 

[Eugene]

.
Eugene said: ↑ Dear Sister reba, that which most refer to as the antichrist is actually the beast, the man of sin, or that abomination of desolation that sitteth in the temple. You are right, but although antichrist is not his name, He will in fact be antichrist.

I just do get how we people think we can change God's Word.. to suit ourselves How about being respectful to His Word and calling a beast a beast... ?

Dear Sister reba, I’m sure at times there is room for concern, but our language leaves great latitude to expand our thoughts in interpretation. For instance, the following Greek transliterated word thērion produces the following possibilities: metaph. a brutal, bestial man, savage, ferocious. Why don’t we just use the original word and leave everyone wondering?

The KJV translates Strongs G2342 in the following manner: beast (42x), wild beast (3x), venomous beast (1x). With such a range of possible interpretations I don’t get too excited and attempt to get the gist of what is being said; he’ll be up to no good for sure.

Eugene said: ↑ Somewhere in all that end time there will undoubtedly be some form of reconstructed temple which I think will be part of the covenant made with those of that time to appease them to follow him after the daily sacrifice was taken from them at the beginning of the tribulation (Dan 12:11).

All this time i have been thinking God took the daily sacrifice away from them about 70 AD .. when 'this' generation was done..
Who is your 'him' in the above paragraph?

The “him” I referred to after Dan 12:11 will be the representative of the prince Satan that we will know as the beast; that same “he” of Dan 9:27. Be aware that the beast and the false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire in Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Satan, their prince we read of in Dan 9:26 will join them in Rev 20:10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

A critical time division to me for all this is Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days, and I suspect we’ll see 1 Cor 15:26 come to pass. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[eddif]

If I were really worth a flip this would come out better.

Jesus realized his body was a temple.
The worship of his father's will was The priority
After his resurrection he could pass through a wall

We (the bride of Christ) are like a city made by God each one of us is not the Godhead fully, but corporately we are an earthly one new man (word in heart and mind). Since the body of Christ was literal, but the temple was a shadow of things to come; then we have a literal temple that should not have antichrist / beast living in us. In us is the place the devil should not be seated (the mind of Romans 7:25). After the resurrection we will pass into heaven, and be changed to go there (some will be saved as though by fire).

Shadows are cast by the realities. Christ Jesus was the reality that cast shadows back to:
creation,
through pre law,
the law and prophets

He had a body to be the Godhead fully and thus cast shadows (since he was slain from the foundation of the earth).

We should be looking for Abraham's city made by God, and not a city made by human hands.

I could supply a lot of scripture references, but those who hear already know them. I can supply them on demand, but context has little to do with types and shadows. An ox stands for a bishop / preacher and that is animal husbandry. Seeds have to do with the word of God and that is agriculture.

Mississippi folks spend a lot of time in forest and glade.

eddif

 

[JLB]

some folks think it is literal
some folks think it is literal and some one will offer blood sacrifices..
some folks think the Body of Christ is the temple

can anyone find a scripture saying the anti-christ sits in that temple?

No there is no such scripture or even the idea of a false christ sitting in a Temple in Jerusalem.

It's all just made up out of thin air.

The abomination of desolation was just a way of foretelling the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, since all of the scriptures in the bible point to that extremely important date.

70 AD was when Jesus returned with all His saints and all of them helped the Roman Soldiers destroy Jerusalem.

That was the fulfillment of all things, and the end of the age.

Here is the scripture that proves everything I just stated.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


The great tribulation occurred in 70 AD, when Jesus returned with all His saints and helped the Roman soldiers destroy the city of Jerusalem.

The lawless one that Jesus personally destroyed, by the brightness of His Coming, was the Roman General Titus, since he was the one who caused the abomination of desolation.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8


All of this happened in 70 AD, and does not concern us the Church.



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

70 AD was when Jesus returned with all His saints and all of them helped the Roman Soldiers destroy Jerusalem.

Where do you get that?

 

[JLB]

Where do you get that?

That is what the doctrine of preterism teaches, that 70 AD is when Jesus returned with His saints, and was the final fulfillment of all prophecy.

They teach the book of Revelation was all fulfilled by 70 AD.

The Return of Jesus Christ, 70 AD.

The abomination of desolation... you guessed it, 70 AD.

We are now living in the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ.


Here's the scripture to prove all of this:

even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:5-7

...raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places.

See, the resurrection is past, because we have been raised up to heavenly places. 2


JLB

 

[JLB]

Where do you get that?

That is what the doctrine of preterism teaches, that 70 AD is when Jesus returned with His saints, and was the final fulfillment of all prophecy.

They teach the book of Revelation was all fulfilled by 70 AD.

The Return of Jesus Christ, 70 AD.

The abomination of desolation... you guessed it, 70 AD.

We are now living in the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ.


Here's the scripture to prove all of this:

even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:5-7

...raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places.

See, the resurrection is past, because we have been raised up to heavenly places. 2


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

That is what the doctrine of preterism teaches, that 70 AD is when Jesus returned with His saints, and was the final fulfillment of all prophecy.
They teach the book of Revelation was all fulfilled by 70 AD.
The Return of Jesus Christ, 70 AD.
The abomination of desolation... you guessed it, 70 AD.
We are now living in the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ.
Here's the scripture to prove all of this: even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:5-7
...raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places.
See, the resurrection is past, because we have been raised up to heavenly places. 2
JLB

wow

So, Jesus returned with all His saints in 70 AD. Where are they now?

 

[reba]

full preterism is not allowed in CFnet
just a red herring