New Jerusalem Temple, is it literal?

[Malachi]

Where in Scripture does it say Men will regard it as a holy place but God doesn't?

It does not have to say this explicitly. The fact that the third Temple becomes Satan's seat should be sufficient. The whole world will regard it as *holy* but all that God will see is an *abomination*. Hence *Abomination of Desolation*.

 

[reba]

AS if Jesus did not know what was coming his death the destruction of 70 ad.. .. I disagree with your premise

 

[smaller]

@Malachi, Why would Jesus Himself call it a holy place ?

Mat_24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

In Matt. 24:15 Jesus is speaking of a principle of scripture. I'm sure you have seen this drill enough times in my posts by now to see this.

Where the Word is sown, THEN Satan STANDS UP to resist Gods Word, and this transpires in the "hearts" of mankind. Mark 4:15.

This principle can be seen here for example:

Zechariah 3:1
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

1 Chronicles 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Did anyone see that "standing?" No. It is spiritual "insight." But until a reader perceives this happens in their own temple, they'll never "see." Only Jesus can grant that sight to anyone.

Does this have anything to do with a brick and mortar job in Israel? Never. So you are right in that part of the assessment.

Temples of the O.T. are deeply embedded in allegory. What are they allegorical of? Christ and His people, His temple. Things we are shown in the "natural" in the O.T. are to be understood as shadows of deeper principles.

 

[Edward]

In Matt. 24:15 Jesus is speaking of a principle of scripture. I'm sure you have seen this drill enough times in my posts by now to see this.

Where the Word is sown, THEN Satan STANDS UP to resist Gods Word, and this transpires in the "hearts" of mankind. Mark 4:15.

This principle can be seen here for example:

Zechariah 3:1
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

1 Chronicles 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Did anyone see that "standing?" No. It is spiritual "insight." But until a reader perceives this happens in their own temple, they'll never "see." Only Jesus can grant that sight to anyone.

Does this have anything to do with a brick and mortar job in Israel? Never. So you are right in that part of the assessment.

Temples of the O.T. are deeply embedded in allegory. What are they allegorical of? Christ and His people, His temple. Things we are shown in the "natural" in the O.T. are to be understood as shadows of deeper principles.

Agreed. The OT is rife with types and shadows. 2.
Jesus is on most every page of the OT and lots of deeper (treasure!) Principles & precepts. 2

...and man's still stupid enough to build it.

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

When the third Temple is in place, the Jews will regard it as "the holy place" because it will be erected on the Temple Mount and will be seen as a Jewish temple by both Jews and others. It is not seen as holy by God, but by men. And in reality it will be most unholy (from God's perspective).

Agreed.

Will a literal temple be holy?

I don't think it will be Holy, but according to various religions around the world which view Judaism as legitimate it will probably be seen as Holy. While talking to John, an angel has a shot at "the holy city" by referring to it spiritually as Sodom and Egypt (Rev 11:8). It's not a direct reference to the temple, but it is the temple which supposedly makes Jerusalem special.

 

[reba]

IF God is not there in this new temple why does the Word of God refer to it as holy?

My personal opinion is Jesus was speaking of the temple that was standing when He spoke..to 'this' generation He did not miss speak ...He knew He knows.. The holy place was in 'that' temple ( speaking in the natural not spiritual) ...

 

[Edward]

IF God is not there in this new temple why does the Word of God refer to it as holy?

My personal opinion is Jesus was speaking of the temple that was standing when He spoke..to 'this' generation He did not miss speak ...He knew He knows.. The holy place was in 'that' temple ( speaking in the natural not spiritual) ...

Because it's where He interacted with His people, a place where He's been in the past? No matter what's there now, it's the same ground?

 

[markathome]

The words used in Matthew 24:15 for

holy =
Strong's Definition 40: from hagos (an awful thing) (compare [53,]53, [2282);]2282); sacred (physically, pure, morally blameless
or religious, ceremonially, consecrated):--(most) holy (one, thing), saint.

for abomination = a form of idolatry
Strong's Definition 946: from [948;]948; a detestation, i.e. (specially) idolatry:--abomination.Definition:a foul thing, a detestable thing of idols and things pertaining to idolatry

I agree that Jesus was referring to the temple that was standing when He spoke but 1900+ years later I don't see peeps worshipping Nero at the temple sight as aka spoken of by Daniel but I do see a form of abomination of idolatry at the current site.

Matthew 24:15 [whenever~hotan] [certainly/accordingly~oun] [to see/to know~eido] [idolatry/abomination~bdelugma] [desolation~eremosis] [to pour forth/to utter~rheo] [the ground or reason by which something is or is not done~dia] [Daniel~Daniel] [an inspired speaker-prophet~prophetes] [to stand~histemi] [in/by/with~en] [sacred/consecrated~hagios] [place~topos] [to read/to acknowledge~anaginosko] [observe/to comprehend~noieo]

 

[Malachi]

My personal opinion is Jesus was speaking of the temple that was standing when He spoke.

If that is indeed the case, then the Great Tribulation would have occurred in the first century and we would already be in the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness". Since that is clearly not the case, then Jesus was not speaking about the second Temple, but about a future third Temple.

 

[JLB]

In Matt. 24:15 Jesus is speaking of a principle of scripture. I'm sure you have seen this drill enough times in my posts by now to see this.

Where the Word is sown, THEN Satan STANDS UP to resist Gods Word, and this transpires in the "hearts" of mankind. Mark 4:15.

This principle can be seen here for example:

Zechariah 3:1
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

1 Chronicles 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Did anyone see that "standing?" No. It is spiritual "insight." But until a reader perceives this happens in their own temple, they'll never "see." Only Jesus can grant that sight to anyone.

Does this have anything to do with a brick and mortar job in Israel? Never. So you are right in that part of the assessment.

Temples of the O.T. are deeply embedded in allegory. What are they allegorical of? Christ and His people, His temple. Things we are shown in the "natural" in the O.T. are to be understood as shadows of deeper principles.

Nonsense.

They will be a final temple built that the man of sin, the lawless one, the false Christ will go to and proclaim himself to be God.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4


JLB

 

[reba]

He is Righteousness and where does He dwell?

 

[markathome]

Parts of this conversational path is covering multiple different topics relating to different events of the past/present/future which for some reason are being combined into 1 path. If you disagree with the one path concept then we are told we are wrong.

But please remember 1 very important thing, a man declaring himself to be God is nothing new, and has already been done a thousand times. All these men are dead and 1/2 the world doesn't worship them.
As for Spiritually. only one has declared itself above [Elohiym/God~theos] at the temple site, and has declared itself to be the only God.
A shrine/temple has already been built on the grounds of the temple site to honor this god above all gods.
A New Temple doesn't have to be built for another nero/man to say he's god again.
Which is worse: a man saying "I'm God" or is it "Satan/Devil" itself replacing [Elohiym/God~theos] as the only God?



2 Thessalonians 2:4 [this/that/these~ho] [to lie opposite/adversary~antikeimai] [even/then/also~kai] [be exalted above measure~huperairomai] [of time/place/order~epi] [individually/collectively~pas] [to say/to speak/to teach~lego] [Elohiym/God~theos] [either/or/than~e] [that is worshipped~sebasma] [therefore~hoste] [of them/he~autos] [as/like/even as~hos] [Elohiym/God~theos] [to seat down~kathizo] [into/for~eis] [shrine/temple~naos] [Elohiym/God~theos] [to declare~apodeiknumi] [himself, herself, itself~heautou] [that/because/since~hoti] [to be~esti] [Elohiym/God~theos]

 

[Sinthesis]

If that is indeed the case, then the Great Tribulation would have occurred in the first century and we would already be in the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness". Since that is clearly not the case, then Jesus was not speaking about the second Temple, but about a future third Temple.

Kinda depends on one's expectations. First century Jews expected their Messiah would be much more grandiose than Jesus appeared to them.

 

[reba]

Christians are doing the same today

 

[JohnDB]

If that is indeed the case, then the Great Tribulation would have occurred in the first century and we would already be in the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness". Since that is clearly not the case, then Jesus was not speaking about the second Temple, but about a future third Temple.

The word " megas" is used to describe the tribulation.... Megas meaning large, huge...but in Early Latin.Greek (and Jesus'/God's penchant for poetry) this can and probably does mean severe as well as long both independently of each other.

And where we can say that the trouble of the Jews hold up in the Temple for three and a half years was severe(they ate their own children) before the Temple's final destruction in 70 AD the other connotation of long cannot be ignored as it has yet to finish.

 

[eddif]

No one really has to buy into what I am about to post (unless you see what I see).

Herod's temple was the 3rd physical temple. The 2nd temple perished during the 400 years of silence.

The hidden man of the heart is where Satan should not be. If man's heart fails to stay ruled by God, then we have a temple defiled by evil.

Even Abraham realized the city he looked for was not totally physical.
Hebrews 11:10 KJV
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

I sure agree with the previous posts about the heart being a Holy temple
(Several posters).

The physical holds spiritual truth in symbol form (it exists), but the ultimate reality is much more spiritual.

eddif

 

[JLB]

No one really has to buy into what I am about to post (unless you see what I see).

Herod's temple was the 3rd physical temple. The 2nd temple perished during the 400 years of silence.

The hidden man of the heart is where Satan should not be. If man's heart fails to stay ruled by God, then we have a temple defiled by evil.

Even Abraham realized the city he looked for was not totally physical.
Hebrews 11:10 KJV
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

I sure agree with the previous posts about the heart being a Holy temple
(Several posters).

The physical holds spiritual truth in symbol form (it exists), but the ultimate reality is much more spiritual.

eddif

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4




So you are saying that Paul was speaking of "us" Christians, as the Temple of God, and this man of sin, the lawless one will somehow dwell in Christians, to show himself as God, by indwelling in Christians?

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

He will be revealed as the "false Christ" the man of sin, the lawless one, or as some refer to him as the "antichrist", when he goes to a physical temple and proclaims to all, that he himself is God, is the long awaited Messiah.

This is what the Jews are waiting for... "their messiah".

This is why they want to build the Temple, because they know from the scriptures that the Messiah will come to the temple.

“Behold, I send My messenger,
And he will prepare the way before Me.
And the Lord, whom you seek,
Will suddenly come to His temple,
Even the Messenger of the covenant,
In whom you delight.
Behold, He is coming,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
Malachi 3:1


How can a "man" dwell in another man?

God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, are omnipresent, and can dwell in His people all at the same time.

A flesh and blood man who claims to be God, can not dwell in all Christians at the same time.



JLB

 

[eddif]

Luke 21:26
Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

We could look at men's hearts failing them as heart attacks. The physical ( I have no problem with that).

Men do not have to open the door when the knocking is going on though. Revelation 3:20

Men can be consumed / filled with thinking they are God.

If the door has not been opened then the heart has failed to be good ground. The physical heart is a symbol of the physical area of our flesh. Romans 7:25

Rednecks are not capable of complete text analysis and doctrinal dissertations of 900 pages. We kind of knock the chaff off and let others do the milling of the inner corn.

So if a Christian falls away? I
Will let others go there. The main point being the intention of heart use, being any man and not just a Christian man.


Mississippi mud gets sticky and hard to slog through.

eddif

 

[Rondmon]

some folks think it is literal
some folks think it is literal and some one will offer blood sacrifices..
some folks think the Body of Christ is the temple

can anyone find a scripture saying the anti-christ sits in that temple?

Hello Reba, interesting topic, I just did a study for a topic on mistranslations/translations and how they can throw off the meaning of the bible. I do not think the Anti-Christ actually sits in the Temple, (We all say that) I think the False Prophet places an Image of the Beast in the Temple. I get this from reading the Hebrew Root words in Daniel 9:27 and in Revelation 13/ Image/Statue of the Beast verse.

With the computer in our repertoire today, we can check the words against different dictionaries like Strong's in real time to see if the translations are correct. No translations are perfect. For example, lets take Daniel 9:27. Just in this verse we find enough, WELL, not horrible mistranslations, just translations bad enough to throw the meaning off here and there and that changes our understandings of the truths....

27 And he shall CONFIRM(1396 gabar, meaning to be strong, by implication to prevail, act insolently {definition, to act rude/arrogant/lack of respect} ) the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the OBLATION (4503 minchah meaning, apportioned tribute, Not really wrong, just an odd word) to cease, and for the OVERSPREADING 3671, an edge, extremity, quarter {of a building} pinnacle ) of abominations (8251 root word shiqquwts meaning- Disgusting, FILTHY, Idolatrous, an IDOL) he shall make it desolate (8074 root word shaw-mame meaning to STUN, devastate, stupefy, grow numb ) even until the consummation ( 3671 kalah, meaning completion and Destruction), and that determined (2782, charats , decide but also point sharply, wound ) shall be poured upon the desolate. ( 8074 shaw-mame, stun, devastate, stupefy, grown numb )

So, looking at these words in the above translation of the original KJV, without the Hebrew Root words and with the Hebrew Root words, I get two totally different meanings from this passage/verse. This is why people who study the bible in depth, sometimes are said to have "ADDED TO THE BIBLE" when we are only saying what the Bible actually says. For example, here is what the above verse says/implies, in my opinion.

He shall confirm, means this Anti-Christ will FORCE Israel into a peace agreement, he will get his way/Prevail, and he will be INSOLENT in doing so....... BUT.......in the middle of the week or 3 1/2 years he will break his agreement or renege on his deal, stop the Daily Sacrifice. NOW THIS VERSE GETS VERY INTERESTING......Why does he stop Israels Daily Sacrifice ? Because, by reading this verse properly, we see that he OVERSPREADS or places in a corner or a part of the building an ABOMINATION or an Idol (Revelation 13 says the False Prophet causes all to Worship an Image of the Beast, and that Image COMES ALIVE ) Abomination/SHIQQUWTS means FILTHY, Idolatrous or IDOL !! So the Anti-Christ stops allowing Israel to do their Daily Sacrifice, and instead places an Idol of Himself in a portion of the Temple, and demands all to Worship him !! And this will STUN Israel, Stupefy Israel, Devastate Israel ( Desolate = Shaw-mame = all these descriptors ). So The Beast or Anti-Christ places an Idol of himself in the Temple of God and he Stuns/Devastates all of Israel with this Filthy Abomination.

This is what I get by using the Hebrew Root words via my Q-bible Site which has all the Strong dictionary words right there on the page, all I have to do is place my cursor on the word. ( Has Greek Root words also. )

The meaning in just this one verse proves that we need to do our own studying, we have Computers, King James and company did not, we have no excuse to rely on translations which are bad.....98 percent of the KJV translations might be perfect, but no translation anywhere is 100 percent perfect.

God Bless, just thought I would share since I had just done an in-depth study on this and I do not believe the Anti-Christ is shown to actually sit in the Temple, as most say, but in Revelation 13 we see the False Prophet causes all to worship an Idol (Statue) of the Beast.

The Beast out of the Earth (False Prophet)

11 Then I saw another beast come up out of the earth. He had two horns like those of a lamb, but he spoke with the voice of a dragon. 12 He exercised all the authority of the first beast. And he required all the earth and its people to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 He did astounding miracles, even making fire flash down to earth from the sky while everyone was watching. 14 And with all the miracles he was allowed to perform on behalf of the first beast, he deceived all the people who belong to this world. He ordered the people to make a great statue of the first beast, who was fatally wounded and then came back to life. 15 He was then permitted to give life to this statue so that it could speak. Then the statue of the beast commanded that anyone refusing to worship it must die.

Freaky stuff, LOL.

 

[Jim Parker]

Something just occurred to me about the title of this thread: "New Jerusalem Temple, is it literal?"

The "new Jerusalem" doesn't have a temple.

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.