Old Testament Genocide

[Alabaster]

Nope, false. They are alive. The same way yours is. I can bring up countless testimonies from Hindus who claim to have been confronted by visions of Krishna and the same thing fro Muslims and Allah. They will claim your God is dead and he dosen't answer their calls try again.

These so-called gods you speak of are not gods at all, but demons.

Jesus Christ, God manifested in the flesh is alive.

In the exact same way Krishna lives. Have you actually looked into who Khrishna is?

False, Krishna makes a big speech about love in the Bhagavad-Gita and how his love is ever lasting, yet he is also above it. Allah also loves his people. You still didn't prove them wrong.

And Krishna loves the Hindus, and Alah loves the Muslims.

I don't care who this Krishna is. He doesn't measure up to Almighty God. He is a figment of someone's imagination or else a demon to begin with.

Allah never claims to love anyone.

When you make statements based on faith, you will quickly realize that all religions can use the exact same arguments against you as you can against them.

You find something one religion has and try and make a point about it, then that religion find something you don't have and use it against you. Its really fun when you get down to it.

Jesus never came to establish a religion. He came to establish a personal relationship with you.

 

[Deavonreye]

It isn't my job to convince you. I lay out the truth that the word teaches and Holy Spirit's job is to convince you, if you are hearing Him.



Scripture teaches that people know that God exists--especially atheists. They spin their wheels in futility.

Romans 2:14-16
Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. 16 And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life.

False. If the main law is "you shall have no other god's before me", how is the atheist "instinctively obeying it"? The law also tells people not to kill. God commanded the Jews TO kill. . . . and I don't care whether or not those killed were for some "plan", they were still killed, . . . against the 10 commandent forbidding it, and did so as commanded by god.

Having said this, just because someone holds SOME of the general laws [definitely not all the many Jewish laws in Deuteronomy or Leviticus which few "instinctively obey"], that doesn't mean that they automatically know that there was a jewish god who sent his son to die for them.

 

[Alabaster]

False. If the main law is "you shall have no other god's before me", how is the atheist "instinctively obeying it"? The law also tells people not to kill. God commanded the Jews TO kill. . . . and I don't care whether or not those killed were for some "plan", they were still killed, . . . against the 10 commandent forbidding it, and did so as commanded by god.

Having said this, just because someone holds SOME of the general laws [definitely not all the many Jewish laws in Deuteronomy or Leviticus which few "instinctively obey"], that doesn't mean that they automatically know that there was a jewish god who sent his son to die for them.

LOL! God isn't a Jew.

Every single person in all of creation has a conscience. God has instilled it. Everyone has a basic moral code. It comes from God.

 

[Deavonreye]

LOL! God isn't a Jew.

I'm not sure where you thought I said that "god was a jew".

Every single person in all of creation has a conscience. God has instilled it. Everyone has a basic moral code. It comes from God.

Like the basic moral code that the Jews failed to observe, at god's command?

 

[Alabaster]

Like the basic moral code that the Jews failed to observe, at god's command?

I should say so, as the commandments are impossible to obey. They were only given to show that we need Him. However, they are written on our very hearts, just as the scriptures say.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

These so-called gods you speak of are not gods at all, but demons.

Jesus Christ, God manifested in the flesh is alive.

You are not demonstrating any of this as true. Just like your last post, we can use the exact same logic to say that Jesus/ God idea is nothng more then a demon/ false teaching in both Hinduism and Islam. You have yet to disprove either religion wrong. So far you are only making statements you can't back up.

I don't care who this Krishna is. He doesn't measure up to Almighty God.

Wow, you say you know nothing about Krishna, yet you just made an absolute claim about him? That is foolish and extremely obserd. The Hindus then can say the exact same thing about your God then.

He is a figment of someone's imagination or else a demon to begin with.

Now prove this. Otherwise the same logic train comes around again. The Hindus can say the exact same thing about your Jeus.

Allah never claims to love anyone.
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Then you have never read the Quran.

Jesus never came to establish a religion. He came to establish a personal relationship with you.

[/quote] The sermon on the mount is a direct refutation of your comment. The sermon on the mount is where he accosts his followers and all present for not following the laws of Judaism. He says to follow God the father.

He tells his disciples to spread his message across the earth and his teachings.

Hello that's a religion/system.


What is so important that Christianity not be a system? It seems like its more of a hassle then anything else.

Oh by the way, Krishna taught Arjuna in the Bhagavad-Gita how to get a personal relationship with him.

If you want to criticize the Hindu God Krishna, then I sugest you actually pick up the Bhagavad-Gita and read up on him before you make extremely flawed Judgements about him.

I gave you guys enough respect to read your holy book, why not give others the same respect and read theirs?

 

[Alabaster]

We can make absolute claims when we have the absolute truth....

 

[Lance_Iguana]

We can make absolute claims when we have the absolute truth....

No, I don't belive you. My reason is because you can't answer the simple question I put forth.

Show me why I should trust Christianity and Not Hinduism, or Islam; where I can't turn it around and use it against you in the same way?

Every statement you have given Can be used against you to show that you don't have the absolute truth. ( this isn't a bash against Christianity, but a critique on Alabaster's logic)

So, when are you going to admit you made claims you can not back up and that you are making blind claims about religions you haven't researched?

You are hiding behind claims of truth that you have not demonstrated to actually be true.

THIS IS NOT TROLLING OR AN INSULT. ALABASTER HAS USED THIS THREAD TO CALL OUT OTHERS AND TELL THEM HOW THEY ARE WRONG, AND I AM ONLY DOING THE SAME, TO PUNISH ME AND REMOVE MY POST WOULD MEAN YOU WOULD ALSO HAVE TO REMOVE ALABSTER'S POSTS AS WELL SINCE I HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING ALABASTER HASN'T ALREADY DONE IN THIS THREAD. I HAVE RESPECTED CHRISTIANITY AND ONLY CRITIQUED ALABASTER'S PERSONAL VIEW ON SCRIPTURE, NOT THE RELIGION AS A WHOLE. LETS BE ADULTS AND NOT CENSOR THIS, BUT INSTEAD USE THIS TO BETTER UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER. THANK YOU.

 

[Alabaster]

My experience with God is that He is true and all powerful and He loves me. He tells me in His word that He does. He tells me He knows me by name. He is a personal Saviour.

Every promise He makes He keeps...so He proves His word over and over again to me.

Everything He says is truth, and there is nothing else that can take His place.

Every other god is a man made god or a demon in disguise, for no other god tells the world He loves them, longs to know them, and actually makes a way for mankind to have a relationship with Him. No other god has sacrificed His Son for us out of great love. No other God has such grace and mercy.

All gods pale by comparison to our great God, Jehovah, for they are all dead, lifeless and loveless.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

My experience with God is that He is true and all powerful and He loves me. He tells me in His word that He does. He tells me He knows me by name. He is a personal Saviour.

Every promise He makes He keeps...so He proves His word over and over again to me.

Everything He says is truth, and there is nothing else that can take His place.

Every other god is a man made god or a demon in disguise, for no other god tells the world He loves them, longs to know them, and actually makes a way for mankind to have a relationship with Him. No other god has sacrificed His Son for us out of great love. No other God has such grace and mercy.

All gods pale by comparison to our great God, Jehovah, for they are all dead, lifeless and loveless.

If this is how you personally feel, then its how you feel.

The problem is that you are trying to convince others with your own personal revelations. It dosen't work, you also admitted and shown that you don't have that much knowledge of Hinduism and Islam, so when you make statements that these religions don't offer what you say they don't offer,fall flat to us who have actually read into these religions.

If you feel you have a personal relationship with God, that's cool. But the reason why I can't accept your argument and can't believe you is thus.

You dismiss the claims of others, even when you admit to have not even researched or learned about the very thing you are dismissing.

You won't define your terms and change your argument whenever someone points out a flaw.

And you insult and show no respect to the person you are arguing or discussing with.

This thread was about the genocidal traits God exhibited in the Old testament. Its there in black and white. God killed people and dosen't really give a reason as to why he needed to do it. Since we are left with speculation as to his motives in the old testament, I call into question that he is a moral being.

An apologist can tell me its because God has a plan, well until you can show me the plan signed by God, then I really see no point in trying to apologize for him. He did what he wants, he's going to do what he wants. To me, I don't think he actually exists so I could not care less about his motives.

So I'll just leave this thread knowing that it truly dosen't matter.

 

[Deavonreye]

The greatest biblical story of genocide, was the multi-genocide of "the Noah flood". Why was it done? Because "all men thought was evil" [what about the women and babies?], so god wanted to destroy that which "he wished he hadn't created" [evidence of non-omniscience]. Did his plan succeed? No. Evil quickly came back.

However, this story never happened. It is claimed to have occured roughly 4,400 years ago. History disagrees.

 

[Alabaster]

If this is how you personally feel, then its how you feel.

The problem is that you are trying to convince others with your own personal revelations. It dosen't work, you also admitted and shown that you don't have that much knowledge of Hinduism and Islam, so when you make statements that these religions don't offer what you say they don't offer,fall flat to us who have actually read into these religions.

It's not a problem.

All Christians believe the same. He is a personal God who reveals Himself personally to each of us.

I don't need to have any knowledge of any other belief, for it is false from the beginning, as it denies Jesus Christ as Messiah. You can read all you like, but you cannot know the truth about God without His spirit speaking to you through people who know Him and through His written word, which is alive with truth.

If you feel you have a personal relationship with God, that's cool. But the reason why I can't accept your argument and can't believe you is thus.

You dismiss the claims of others, even when you admit to have not even researched or learned about the very thing you are dismissing.

Research isn't necessary. I know what I need to know. Jesus is the answer.

You won't define your terms and change your argument whenever someone points out a flaw.

There is no flaw in the Christian faith.

And you insult and show no respect to the person you are arguing or discussing with.

I respect you enough to tell you the unvarnished truth. Your soul is at stake---Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation.

This thread was about the genocidal traits God exhibited in the Old testament. Its there in black and white. God killed people and dosen't really give a reason as to why he needed to do it. Since we are left with speculation as to his motives in the old testament, I call into question that he is a moral being.

An apologist can tell me its because God has a plan, well until you can show me the plan signed by God, then I really see no point in trying to apologize for him. He did what he wants, he's going to do what he wants. To me, I don't think he actually exists so I could not care less about his motives.

God needs no apology for His righteous judgments.

So I'll just leave this thread knowing that it truly dosen't matter.

And so you leave this thread still grasping confusion.

 

[Bazz1040]

I'm not sure which of my points "are not tolerated". Can you specify, please?

Nazi Germany was an immoral system. Hebrew migration to "the promised land" held many of the same ideologies. Pre-Civil War America held some immoral ideologies, . . . and similar ideologies were condoned in the Old Testament.

These aren't statements of attack, but of truth

God has the right to take life because all life comes from Him, and He has the power to bring back from the dead all those whom He has killed. But human beings on the other hand, though we can take a life, we don't have the power to resurrect that person.

 

[Deavonreye]

God has the right to take life because all life comes from Him, and He has the power to bring back from the dead all those whom He has killed. But human beings on the other hand, though we can take a life, we don't have the power to resurrect that person.

So, he doesn't have to follow one of his 10 commandments of "not killing", and can order his people to do so regardless of it?

Also, it isn't immoral to give or create life. It is immoral to end it.

 

[Bazz1040]

So, he doesn't have to follow one of his 10 commandments of "not killing", and can order his people to do so regardless of it?

Also, it isn't immoral to give or create life. It is immoral to end it.

The Ten Commandments is not for God, it was God's commandments to Israel not to commit murder. Murder is the unjust killing of an innocent person or taking matters in one's hands to get justice.

And how is it immoral to give life, let alone for God to give life? And how is it immoral for God to end life if the life we have was given to us by Him? Don't you have a right to do what you so choose with your own things?

 

[Deavonreye]

The Ten Commandments is not for God, it was God's commandments to Israel not to commit murder. Murder is the unjust killing of an innocent person or taking matters in one's hands to get justice.

Like unjustly killing children to further the advancement of one solitary culture?

And how is it immoral to give life, let alone for God to give life? And how is it immoral for God to end life if the life we have was given to us by Him? Don't you have a right to do what you so choose with your own things?

I said that it ISN'T immoral to create life, but it IS immoral to end life.

And no, I do not have the right to do what I want with my own things if it is against the law.

 

[Bazz1040]

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Like unjustly killing children to further the advancement of one solitary culture?

What God does is for the good of even the one's He kills. Like I said, God has the power to bring them back from the dead.....you or I don't.

I said that it ISN'T immoral to create life, but it IS immoral to end life.

Sorry, my bad…I did not read your post correctly. It is not immoral for God to take life, because He intends to bring them back in a better world.

And no, I do not have the right to do what I want with my own things if it is against the law.

Well, the problem would be the law or those that would make a law restricting people's rights. We live in a world where some seek to control others. But as for me, I have a right to do with what is mine....regardless of what any law might say. So if I decide to sell my laptop or throw it in the garbage, what law that says I should not do that?

Just because a law says something does not mean the law is just.....there are unjust laws you know.

 

[Alabaster]

So, he doesn't have to follow one of his 10 commandments of "not killing", and can order his people to do so regardless of it?

Also, it isn't immoral to give or create life. It is immoral to end it.

God is incapable of murder or any immoral act.

Your human mind cannot fathom that God has the power and all authority to execute judgment. You cannot, as the created, presume to judge your creator according to your own feeble standards.

It is ridonculous.

 

[Bazz1040]

God is incapable of murder or any immoral act.

Your human mind cannot fathom that God has the power and all authority to execute judgment. You cannot, as the created, presume to judge your creator according to your own feeble standards.

It is ridonculous.

I would not say that God is incapable of any act that is wrong or evil (God is all powerful), but it is not in God's Nature to do those things.

 

[Deavonreye]

God is incapable of murder or any immoral act.

Your human mind cannot fathom that God has the power and all authority to execute judgment. You cannot, as the created, presume to judge your creator according to your own feeble standards.

It is ridonculous.

Wow, . . . . so not wanting to see thousands of dead babies [at the hands of god led Hebrews] is a "feeble standard". And in case you haven't noticed, YOUR mind is human as well. If you can't fathom this god, then how do you really know it enough TO love or worhip it?

Sure, I am unable to judge someone with more power than me, . . . but the multi-genocide of a flood, which was a failure at removing sin from the world, isn't something I would call as a "higher standard".

Of course, that is if that global flood was literal, which it wasn't.