Once saved..always saved....It's right here.

[ChristDependent]

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-2,6

So in your mind, these words were not for the disciples He was speaking, and their disciples, who would be taught what Jesus taught them, but was for some people who would not even be born for another two thousand years.

Sorry, but every branch refers to every person who is ever in Christ.

Every believer is grafted in to that vine and so His words are for those believers that would abide in Him as His disciples as every believer is called to be His disciples by abiding in Him to be fruitful.

Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed....25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

So John 15 is about being fruitful so that our joy may be full by abiding in Him as His disciple; it is not about salvation. You can be cut off at the pre trib rapture if a believer no longer believes and they deny Him, BUT he still abides in those cut off.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Furthermore, there is no such scripture of teaching in the bible called the "pre-trib Rapture".

Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Guess who the "them" refers to in this verse?

The resurrected ones. That's because the resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the Rapture, are one event that happens at His coming.

The pre trib rapture is when God will judge His House "first". This is the separation of the vessels unto honor; Christ the firstfruits, from the vessels unto dishonor as they that be Christ's at His coming.

You quoted 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as meeting Christ in the air, but in Zechariah 14:1-5, Jesus is coming back with the raptured saints to defeat Satan and the world's armies, and having set foot on the Mount of Olives to begin this battle.

And yet it is AFTER the defeat of Satan and the world's armies when Satan has been cast into the pit is when the so called "first resurrection" occurs in Revelation 20:4-6. At this link, we see the last Greek word in verse 5 where "first" was translated from which is protos.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

"contracted superlative of pro - pro 4253; foremost (in time, place, order or importance):--before, beginning, best, chief(-est), first (of all), former."

So how first is placed in that verse is key to understanding that it is not testifying that it is the only resurrection to have had occurred, but at that time in relations to the rest of the dead, that resurrection of the saints as coming out of the great tribulation mentioned in verse 4 will happen first.

Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Anyway, that is what first was deferring from; and not from the pre trib rapture since those saints coming out of the great tribulation did not meet Christ in the air when this was after He had set foot on earth in having defeated Satan & the world's armies.

 

[JLB]

Every believer is grafted in to that vine and so His words are for those believers that would abide in Him

Every believer is grafted into Him.
Those who do not continue to remain connected to Him, will end up cast into the fire and burned.

JLB

 

[MarkT]

Hi MartT
You say a servant knows his master, a puppet doesn't know anything.

That's my point.

Jesus was a servant. He served the will of The Father. Yahweh. To bridge the gap between God and man.
He was not a puppet and neither are we. Or do you think we are? Is that not what Calvinism teaches?

As far as Moses. Romans 9 is speaking to the nation of Israel and its salvation. Verse 7 is speaking about Abraham and Jesus clearly stated that they were not sons of God just because the Jews were descendant from Abraham. Galatians 3:7-9 and Mathew 3:9 and John 8:39
The saved will be saved by Jesus by faith, not because they are sons of Abraham.

Other than this, you're speaking to my favorite subject: Reconciling God's Providence or Sovereignty with our free will.

So it seems like you're saying that it's all up to God. Because you're saying:
So it depends not upon man’s will or exertion, but upon God’s mercy. Romans 9:15-16

Okay. I could respect what you believe. But it brings us back to my original point to which you're answering.
If ALL depends on God, then, yes, we are as puppets.

Was Jesus a puppet?
No?
Then maybe we aren't either.

Have I misunderstood something here?

Wondering

The point is freewill doesn't save. Faith saves.

 

[smaller]

Every believer is grafted into Him.
Those who do not continue to remain connected to Him, will end up cast into the fire and burned.
JLB

Romans 11:16
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

 

[ChristDependent]

Every believer is grafted into Him.
Those who do not continue to remain connected to Him, will end up cast into the fire and burned

To be clear; what is that fire though?

When does this casting into the fire happens?

I'd say it is that fire that is coming on the earth after the pre trib rapture event when God excommunicates those from the Marriage Supper for not being ready nor found abiding in Him as His disciples.

Luke 12: 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Do note that those cast into the fire are still called His servants as they are receiving their stripes.

 

[GodsGrace]

The point is freewill doesn't save. Faith saves.

I agree that faith saves.
Ephesians 2:8

It's my free will that allows me to choose to be saved:
Deuteronomy 30:15
Joshua 24:15

And I like John 5:40-43
Jesus plainly states that not all are willing to come to Him and to receive (accept) Him.

So it does sound to me like a decision has to be made.
Once that decision is made - then faith is what saves us.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

To be clear; what is that fire though?

When does this casting into the fire happens?

I'd say it is that fire that is coming on the earth after the pre trib rapture event when God excommunicates those from the Marriage Supper for not being ready nor found abiding in Him as His disciples.

Some speak/see as if casting into the FIRE is a horrific matter.

It's NOT, for believers.

Deuteronomy 4:24
For the Lord thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.

Luke 24:32
And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

The flesh man fears this engagement. He can not see that there is a FIRE that BURNS that does not destroy, just as in the burning BUSH. Exodus 3:2

Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.

And yes, there is A FIRE that Jesus always intended to KINDLE among us all:

Luke 12:49
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

 

[smaller]

And surely nobody missed the CLOVEN TONGUES of FIRE upon those gathered in the upper room?!

Acts 2:3
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

There is a reason those tongues of FIRE were SPLIT or CLOVEN or DIVIDED.

Details my fellows. Details. Every jot and tittle is very important.

When we "speak with NEW TONGUES" it is the TONGUE OF DIVISION.

It is a firey tongue at ODDS with the world and divided from the world.

 

[ChristDependent]

I agree that faith saves.
Ephesians 2:8

It's my free will that allows me to choose to be saved:
Deuteronomy 30:15
Joshua 24:15

And I like John 5:40-43
Jesus plainly states that not all are willing to come to Him and to receive (accept) Him.

So it does sound to me like a decision has to be made.
Once that decision is made - then faith is what saves us.

The problem here is that Who led us to be able to believe in Him?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

So that means our believing in Him is a work of God the Father Himself because He knows whom would receive Him from those that would not, because they prefer their evil deeds rather than be reproved.

John 3:8 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So we may make a decision to believe, but God the Father is the One enabling us so we can decide to believe.

He would not bother revealing His Son to us if He foreknew we would prefer the evil deeds over Him.

 

[ChristDependent]

Some speak/see as if casting into the FIRE is a horrific matter.

It's NOT, for believers.

Depends on which fire you are talking about.

There is a fiery judgment coming on the earth as 2 Peter 3rd chapter discusses that more of what Jesus was actually talking about in Luke 12:49 because it dealt with unrepentant believers being cut off and left behind with the unbelievers as they that are His servants are receiving stripes when this fire comes on the earth.

There is a baptismal fire that comes with the Holy Ghost at salvation which was what you were talking about, but Luke 12:49 was not about that at all. The fire you are talking about is Matthew 3:11 & Luke 3:16

Then there is hell fire which a believer with His seal will not be subjected to. Mark 9:43-47

Then there is the lake of fire which is the second death when hell and death will be thrown into it which the believers that have His seal will not be subjected to that. Revelation 20:14

Then there is a Refiner's fire at His coming at the pre trib rapture event. Malachi 3:2-3 & below's reference. This is the fire I am talking about.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Do note verse 13 & 15 by which the physical body will be destroyed for not repenting with His help to stop defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit before that day comes when that Refiner's fire burn away all the works on that sure foundation which can never be removed, having His seal.

 

[ChristDependent]

And surely nobody missed the CLOVEN TONGUES of FIRE upon those gathered in the upper room?!

Acts 2:3
And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

There is a reason those tongues of FIRE were SPLIT or CLOVEN or DIVIDED.

Details my fellows. Details. Every jot and tittle is very important.

When we "speak with NEW TONGUES" it is the TONGUE OF DIVISION.

It is a firey tongue at ODDS with the world and divided from the world.

It is God's gift of tongues of other men's lips to speak unto the people. 1 Corinthians 14:20-22

This is how God's supernatural tongue is separated from the supernatural tongue found in the world before Pentecost had come that is just vain & profane babbling. Isaiah 8:19

This is why believers are not to believe every spirit but test them, including the tongues they bring. 1 John 4:1-6

 

[MarkT]

I agree that faith saves.
Ephesians 2:8

It's my free will that allows me to choose to be saved:
Deuteronomy 30:15
Joshua 24:15

And I like John 5:40-43
Jesus plainly states that not all are willing to come to Him and to receive (accept) Him.

So it does sound to me like a decision has to be made.
Once that decision is made - then faith is what saves us.

Wondering

So your will comes before faith? I don't think so.

Didn't Jesus teach the seed is sown in the heart? Mt. 13:18-23 So who gave us a believing heart and the spirit of understanding? It was God. So you see God had mercy on us before we even heard the good news.

So does freewill mean God can't accomplish anything without us or our permission? But there's no such teaching in the gospel that says salvation is by our will. Who declared it? Who's idea was it? Salvation belongs to God.

Note Joshua never said choose the LORD. Joshua 24:15 He said you can choose the other gods. I take it the LORD is not like the other gods that you can choose Him. Is he in competition with the gods of the Amorites? Does God need our approval? Will he declare it and will he not do it?

You see, discipleship according to the gospel of Jesus Christ is more of a calling than a choice; at least for some it is. For some it might seem to be a choice. But the kingdom of heaven is like a net which was cast into the sea and gathered fish of every kind, the good and the bad. Mt. 13:47 Are we to think fish choose to be caught? No. Fish don't choose to be caught.

 

[GodsGrace]

The problem here is that Who led us to be able to believe in Him?

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

So that means our believing in Him is a work of God the Father Himself because He knows whom would receive Him from those that would not, because they prefer their evil deeds rather than be reproved.

John 3:8 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So we may make a decision to believe, but God the Father is the One enabling us so we can decide to believe.

He would not bother revealing His Son to us if He foreknew we would prefer the evil deeds over Him.

The thread is regarding how one could come to lose his salvation - but I'm reading a lot about hell and fire.

BTW, you think Mark 9:43-47 is speaking about hell? Is it that hell to which God condemns those that He does not wish to save? He sounds like a mean God. I thought God was Love. 1 John 4:8

BTW, go down to 1 John 4:15
Why would I have to confess Jesus is the Son of God, if I'm already chosen and this is already known?

Back to your above post.

John 6:44 I agree. The Father draws all men to Him. That's because He desires that ALL men come to the saving knowledge of their God. Even before there was a bible, God was drawing man unto Himself through revelation. Romans 1:19-20
But, even that far back, Paul says that all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men did not honor Him as God or give thanks. Sounds like they had a choice to honor Him, but didn't. If it depended on God to save them, His wrath would not have been upon them since He was responsible for their ungodliness. Is He a just God or not? Romans 1:18

Mathew 11:25-27 is a beautiful passage. As does John 14:7 is shows the intimate connection between God the Father and Jesus God the Son. No one knows, in fullness, the Father as does the Son and V V. All things are delivered to Christ from the Father. What things? Things having to do with salvation, power, authority, teachings and judgement. And no man can come to know the Father except the Son wishes to reveal the Father - which is what He came to earth to do. In the very next verse, Jesus invites ALL who labor and are heavy laden to come to Him so that He can give them rest.

Mathew 16:16 Same as response to John 6:44. Flesh and blood cannot understand the things of God. God only can reveal spiritual truths. 1 Corinthians 2:14
Yes. You are correct. This is a work of God. God wills all men to be saved since they are His children and he created them. Acts 17:28-29

John 3:8 I don't understand why you posted this verse since it proves my point that one has to BELIEVE.

I also agree with your last sentence:
He would not bother revealing His Son to us if He foreknew we would prefer the evil deeds over Him

He (God) would not bother revealing His Son to us if He foreknew who would be saved.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

Depends on which fire you are talking about.

There is a fiery judgment coming on the earth as 2 Peter 3rd chapter discusses that more of what Jesus was actually talking about in Luke 12:49 because it dealt with unrepentant believers being cut off and left behind with the unbelievers as they that are His servants are receiving stripes when this fire comes on the earth.

Isaiah 26:9
With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

There is a baptismal fire that comes with the Holy Ghost at salvation which was what you were talking about, but Luke 12:49 was not about that at all. The fire you are talking about is Matthew 3:11 & Luke 3:16

Believers have a very strong tendency to lean hard away from both Gods Judgments and Fire, generally speaking. They don't want to hear of it for themselves. And that is the flesh seeking to save itself, by not listening. And there is an evil impetus behind that working in the flesh.

We know from Jesus, IF we are listening, that we will LIVE by Every Word of God. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

We are not to fear His Words. Any of them. They are all for our LIFE.

Then there is hell fire which a believer with His seal will not be subjected to. Mark 9:43-47

I'd suggest a closer look:

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

That party IS scheduled for destruction in the LoF.

And yes, they know it and yes, there is fear and trembling on their count over this matter.

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Their time is "limited." And "short." The closer that time comes, the more agitated they become.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[ChristDependent]

The thread is regarding how one could come to lose his salvation - but I'm reading a lot about hell and fire.

That is just a one time reference to what fire can be meaning as it is different through out the Bible.

BTW, you think Mark 9:43-47 is speaking about hell? Is it that hell to which God condemns those that He does not wish to save? He sounds like a mean God. I thought God was Love. 1 John 4:8

No need to go further on this side point.

BTW, go down to 1 John 4:15
Why would I have to confess Jesus is the Son of God, if I'm already chosen and this is already known?

Confessions can serve as a witness before God and men of what God has wrought in you, but not every saved believer is chosen as His disciple for attending the Marriage Supper. This is why this thread are filled with some posts of misreading & misapplying some of the verses in the Bible as if OSAS is false.

Back to your above post.

John 6:44 I agree. The Father draws all men to Him. That's because He desires that ALL men come to the saving knowledge of their God. Even before there was a bible, God was drawing man unto Himself through revelation. Romans 1:19-20
But, even that far back, Paul says that all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men did not honor Him as God or give thanks. Sounds like they had a choice to honor Him, but didn't. If it depended on God to save them, His wrath would not have been upon them since He was responsible for their ungodliness. Is He a just God or not? Romans 1:18

Mathew 11:25-27 is a beautiful passage. As does John 14:7 is shows the intimate connection between God the Father and Jesus God the Son. No one knows, in fullness, the Father as does the Son and V V. All things are delivered to Christ from the Father. What things? Things having to do with salvation, power, authority, teachings and judgement. And no man can come to know the Father except the Son wishes to reveal the Father - which is what He came to earth to do. In the very next verse, Jesus invites ALL who labor and are heavy laden to come to Him so that He can give them rest.

Mathew 16:16 Same as response to John 6:44. Flesh and blood cannot understand the things of God. God only can reveal spiritual truths. 1 Corinthians 2:14
Yes. You are correct. This is a work of God. God wills all men to be saved since they are His children and he created them. Acts 17:28-29

John 3:8 I don't understand why you posted this verse since it proves my point that one has to BELIEVE.

I also agree with your last sentence:
He would not bother revealing His Son to us if He foreknew we would prefer the evil deeds over Him

He (God) would not bother revealing His Son to us if He foreknew who would be saved.

Wondering

John 3:18-21 in context testify how God foreknew whom is searching Him from those that prefer their evil deeds as it is His work that is how any one believes.

 

[GodsGrace]

So your will comes before faith? I don't think so.

Didn't Jesus teach the seed is sown in the heart? Mt. 13:18-23 So who gave us a believing heart and the spirit of understanding? It was God. So you see God had mercy on us before we even heard the good news.

So does freewill mean God can't accomplish anything without us or our permission? But there's no such teaching in the gospel that says salvation is by our will. Who declared it? Who's idea was it? Salvation belongs to God.

Note Joshua never said choose the LORD. Joshua 24:15 He said you can choose the other gods. I take it the LORD is not like the other gods that you can choose Him. Is he in competition with the gods of the Amorites? Does God need our approval? Will he declare it and will he not do it?

You see, discipleship according to the gospel of Jesus Christ is more of a calling than a choice; at least for some it is. For some it might seem to be a choice. But the kingdom of heaven is like a net which was cast into the sea and gathered fish of every kind, the good and the bad. Mt. 13:47 Are we to think fish choose to be caught? No. Fish don't choose to be caught.

Oh my. We're like fish.
God throws a net down. Mathew 4:19
Jesus picks the first Apostles. He tells them they will become fishers of men.
I think they went unto all the world and preached the good news. The persons they preached the good news to could either accept or deny. This involves a CHOICE.

I don't see a problem with Joshua 24:15 The CHOICE was between the gods of Egypt and the Lord. They had to CHOOSE whom they would serve. Drop down to verse 16: "The people answered and said, 'Far be it from us that we should forsake the Lord to serve other gods.'" This sounds to me like they're CHOOSING to serve our Lord God.

Mathew 18:13-23 The Parable of the Sower
What was sown in the heart. The heart in the O.T. is what was believed to contain understanding. So the word is sown in the heart OR understood by the person hearing it. Satan will always cause us to doubt. And, in some cases, it works - as it did in this case. The person heard the word and did not believe. In verse 23, instead, the person heard the word and understood it and believed it. Are you saying God forced that person to believe?

I never said God cannot accomplish something without our consent. That's blasphemy. Or close to it.
Salvation belongs to God. Right. But we have to want it. If my friend doesn't want to be saved, will she be saved by force?
Revelation 3:20 Jesus is knocking on the door. He's waiting for the door to be opened. He's not going to break in by force.

Discipleship is a calling and not a choice. Discipleship is a calling because the power of the Holy Spirit is necessary to be a disciple. I agree. But how can I be a disciple if I don't choose to be?

Eternal life is a gift. What do you do with a gift? You ACCEPT it. It's offered to you, but you have to take it and open it and accept it. If someone hands me a gift, I could refuse it too, I don't HAVE TO accept it.
John 1:12
Acts 16:31a

I'm hearing here that I must believe - not that God is going to force me to believe.

Wondering

 

[ChristDependent]

I'd suggest a closer look:

2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

That party IS scheduled for destruction in the LoF.

How about a closer look at this?

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The word "not" was translated from the Greek word "ou me" which is a double negative, meaning that Jesus would never do that to any believer.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

So you may want to reconsider by these two points of truth that is being overlooked in scripture.

 

[smaller]

The persons they preached the good news to could either accept or deny. This involves a CHOICE.

Unlikely.

HOW did Paul obtain Gods Mercy in Christ?

1 Timothy 1:13
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

 

[GodsGrace]

That is just a one time reference to what fire can be meaning as it is different through out the Bible.


No need to go further on this side point.


Confessions can serve as a witness before God and men of what God has wrought in you, but not every saved believer is chosen as His disciple for attending the Marriage Supper. This is why this thread are filled with some posts of misreading & misapplying some of the verses in the Bible as if OSAS is false.

John 3:18-21 in context testify how God foreknew whom is searching Him from those that prefer their evil deeds as it is His work that is how any one believes.

That's it?
Is there a part two?
Please explain how John 3:18-21 testifies to how God foreknew who is searching for Him.
It comes right after John 3:16
THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH SHALL NOT PERISH.

WHOSOEVER.

Wondering
Edit: I don't really mean it about explaining John 3:18-21...
For me it ends here...

 

[smaller]

How about a closer look at this?

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The word "not" was translated from the Greek word "ou me" which is a double negative, meaning that Jesus would never do that to any believer.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/index2.htm

So you may want to reconsider by these two points of truth that is being overlooked in scripture.

And you kinda missed the point altogether.

There is no insulation from ANY of Gods Judgments or any of Gods Words of Life. ALL His Words are for all believers and for our life. Matt. 4:4 and Luke 4:4 are abundantly clear on this count.

I showed, using Paul and the messenger of Satan in Paul's own flesh, how ADVERSE JUDGMENTS apply. And yes, they DO apply to ALL believers, ultimately to our benefit.

The Spirit IS and will remain factually against and contrary to the flesh. Gal. 5:17

There is therefore, adversity to the flesh from the Spirit. They really are "against and contrary to each others." Just as Paul said and shows.

Believers all tend crowd themselves on one side of the deck of scripture and ignore the other side, and that is a working of their flesh, not being able to "see itself" for what it is.