Once Saved, Always Saved?

[glorydaz]

No, the lie is that those who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, will be abandoned by God if they aren't perfect. That does nothing but diminish the work of the cross, and deny the power of the Lord to keep those who have been given Him by the Father. It puts the power of salvation on man's ability to keep himself.

Ding-ding, round 7...

Let's get ready to RUMMMMBBBLLLLEEEE! :boxing

We don't need to be perfect, my friend. That is grace at work. We are no longer under the Law, which requires perfection. Grace, a Loving Father, does not require perfection from His children. However, the children can choose to disown the Father and return to a life of sin. This does NOTHING to diminish the power of the Cross, since the Cross is a gift that must be freely accepted - otherwise, EVERY MAN IS SAVED and NO ONE is in hell!

Man is saved by God, not man's own abilities. But man must accept the freely given gift. Accepting a gift earns nothing, but without this acceptance, a man cannot be saved. God saves no one without them.

Regards

LOL...no one I'd rather rumble with.

Amen, brother....but it's a gift that is non-returnable.
In order for us to leave God, He would have to leave us, and He has promised never to leave nor forsake us. Our children can throw a fit and disobey, but, being the loving and wise parents that we are, we will never forsake them. We will discipline them until they return. As humans, we are limited in what we can do to bring our children into submission, but the great God of glory has no limitations. His power entends to all our circumstances...to our very health and even our lives. All things are possible with God, and Jesus will lose none the Father has given Him.

The Lord doesn't force us to believe in Him, but He is faithful to keep those who come.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

[glorydaz]

When you believe righteousness is imputed to you and you are not ashamed to say so. How do you tell the difference between a believer and a non-believer? The believer believes with his heart that he is righteous and the non-believer confesses he is a sinner. It is as simple as that.

I think I understand what you're saying, and I agree Christ's righteousness has been imputed to those of us who are justified by faith. But, I don't think the non-believer confesses he is a sinner.

And the believer knows He is a sinner but has Christ's righteousness imputed to him.
We know we are justified by faith, and do not come under condemnation.

Speaking of Abraham...

And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[francisdesales]

Were the Jews the Children of the Kingdom of God or not? The citation clearly tells us that some of God's CHILDREN will not make it into the Kingdom of Heaven, cast out. They were IN the Kingdom, then they were CAST OUT of the Kingdom. And others will take their place.

Doesn't it mean they were in, if they were subsequently cast out???

Kind of reminds you of those Jews cut off from the olive tree and others grafted in, huh?!!

God be praised for His Sacred Scriptures.

It certainly does, and they were cut off because of unbelief.
They were the children of Israel...the children of God are those who enter in by faith.

Of course. They believed and then didn't believe. They were in, and then cast out. They were circumcised, prayed, went to the synagogue and heard the Word of God, were part of the People of God, Israel. And then, they were cast out as they lost faith in God.

The Jews were not the children of the Kingdom of God.
They were the children of (the kingdom of) Israel.

Who was Israel's God? Did God have another chosen people I am not aware of?

Is it really necessary for me to quote Scriptures that speak of God's Love for His People, Israel???

And why did they fail? They set out to establish their own righteousness through the law.

[/quote]

Perhaps, but the point is that men can be cast out of God's People, His Kingdom. If we make a shipwreck of our faith, turn away from God, there is a possibility that we will also be cut off, cast out, and tossed into the fire. Clearly, the NT speaks of this warning to Christians. Heaven is conditional, it depends upon a particular response from men, a return of God's good gifts.

Regards

 

[Mysteryman]

[quote="watchman F":35yncjkx]To all OSAS defenders.....

Matthew 24
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

2nd Timothy 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

Hebrews 3
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Here are 6 passage of scripture that says we must finish the race/endure until the end to obtain eternal life as Paul says in Philippians 3
Philippians 3
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
And again in 1st Corinthians
1st Cor 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul knew starting the race meant nothing, but finishing the race brought about eternal life.


I have shown you many passages that says we must endure until the end to be granted eternal life, now you give me one that says starting the race is all we must do.

If the running the race and making it to the finish line were dependent upon me alone I wouldn't be able to make it. For this I'm glad that Christ is in me to keep me in the faith and to help me make it through until the very end. To God be ALL the glory.

Hebrews 12:1-2 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.[/quote:35yncjkx]


Hi there

In thinking about the movie "dumb and dumber", do you remember when he was leaving the bar and saw on the wall that we have landed on the moon, and he was elated as if he had just found out that we indeed did land on the moon ?

With that same mind thought about the movie, I read Hebrews 12:1 and 2 and read "Jesus the author and finisher of our faith" --- and I respond --> "We have won the race" ! We run the race knowing that the race has already been won. WOW -

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi mysteryman
quote: mysteryman

Hi olympia

Let me see if I can give you an example. For instance Romans 10:9 states - "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thy heart, that God has raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved"

Do you believe you "need" to confess what this verse says, "before" you can get saved ?

Or, do you believe, that you do what this verse says, because you are already saved ?

The reason I believe that it is the latter one, that you are already saved, is why you confess what this verse is saying. It is because you can not call Jesus Lord, except by the Holy Spirit. And you can not believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, unless God has revealed it unto your heart.

The chosen of God hear his voice, and we are called out because we hear his voice. If it was the first example, then it would be blind faith. Romans 10:9 is not dealing with blind faith. It is dealing with the faith of Jesus Christ, which is Christ in you.

Jesus died for the sin of the world 2000 years ago. The world was forgiven of sins in the flesh whether we believe it or not, it was a done deal.

Anyone who hears his voice; the voice of those preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ has a choice to believe or not believe.

Romans 10:14, "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things.Confession has nothin to do with being forgiven of sin, that has been accomplished. Confession has to do with whether we believe it or not.

When you believe righteousness is imputed to you and you are not ashamed to say so. How do you tell the difference between a believer and a non-believer? The believer believes with his heart that he is righteous and the non-believer confesses he is a sinner. It is as simple as that.

Hi olympia

Apparently you missed the point I was trying to make. Let me ask this way -- What brings one to the point of believing ? Does someone convince you by their preaching ? Or are you conviced of God, by God ?

 

[francisdesales]

Amen, brother....but it's a gift that is non-returnable.

God FORCES us to accept the gift??? And we cannot "give it back"??? People never lose faith in God??? (isn't faith a gift - and some lose it...)

Perhaps you might want to re-think that.

In order for us to leave God, He would have to leave us,

Untrue.

Ever hear human songs of "I love him enough to let him go" and lyrics to that effect? God loves us enough to let us go, if that is what we truly desire. We believe God loves ALL men, even those who NEVER will accept Him. Thus, even if we were to desire to leave Him, His love is everlasting.

Our children can throw a fit and disobey, but, being the loving and wise parents that we are, we will never forsake them.

I never said God will leave us, but that we CAN leave God. God continues to love us in that situation. Doesn't God love us even BEFORE we convert, even while we are IN sin? It stands that God will continue to love us, even if we leave and never return, say as the prodigal son who never came home. The father would continue to love the son, but the son has free will to not come home, not convert, not re-establish the relationship. The Father, Love itself, allows us the choice, but that Love for us never dies, is always patient that we will come back to Him. If we don't, He loves us enough to let us go.

If humans can display this love, surely, so can God.

We will discipline them until they return. As humans, we are limited in what we can do to bring our children into submission, but the great God of glory has no limitations. His power entends to all our circumstances...to our very health and even our lives. All things are possible with God, and Jesus will lose none the Father has given Him.

You are presuming that God is fighting us and our sinful desires because He needs us. Why would God FORCE us to love Him? Does He? Isn't His love quite subtle, His voice soft, appearing now and then in the ordinary events of our lives? God doesn't drag us into heaven, my friend.

Otherwise, we would have NO ONE in hell, since God died for the sake of the world.

The Lord doesn't force us to believe in Him, but He is faithful to keep those who come.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

OK, good, God's faithfulness remains, no matter what our response. But that faithfulness does not interfere with our free will choice to return to the vomit of our former lives. He allows us to make a shipwreck of our faith. The fact that some fall away and never return is proof to show that even righteous men can return to evil ways. As such, entering the Church is not a sign that we are "the ones given to the Son by the Father". Remember, many will say "Lord, Lord", thinking they are given to the Son by the Father, but Jesus will reply "I never knew you"... This verse is not really helpful for us, but indicates the relationship between the Father and the Son, since the Bible does not tell us "who the Father has given to the Son", specifically.

Regards

 

[archangel_300]

Hi there

In thinking about the movie "dumb and dumber", do you remember when he was leaving the bar and saw on the wall that we have landed on the moon, and he was elated as if he had just found out that we indeed did land on the moon ?

With that same mind thought about the movie, I read Hebrews 12:1 and 2 and read "Jesus the author and finisher of our faith" --- and I respond --> "We have won the race" ! We run the race knowing that the race has already been won. WOW -

Hi Mysteryman,

Yes, to God be all the glory as He is the one that finishes the race for us.
God bless.

 

[beardedad]

I can't believe people are still arguing over something so simple. Did or didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins? If he did and as the Bible says it is a gift given freely to us, the only thing is that we accept this gift and if you accepted it then why worry. There is not one person on this earth that does not sin. If you say you do not then you are lying. I sin everyone sins at one time or another. In Gods eyes there is not big or little sin, a sin is a sin is a sin. IF he didn’t die for all of everyone sins then what did he do? Why would he go through the torture for nothing? And my point is why people want to put him back on the cross if they sin. It is already paid for. People that think that they have to be perfect are missing the point and are missing out on life as well. Jesus died so that we would not have to worry like in the Old Testament. What did I do this week that I will need to put up a sacrifice for? Or Am I covered if I should die in battle did I get the priest to send up prayers for me? We don’t have to do this anymore. When Christ died and the curtain in the holy of holies was torn we could go to God directly. He died for ALL of our sins past, present and future. When you become his child you are his forever, he holds to you. You don’t hold to him. The bible said that he will never leave you or forsake you. If he is not walking beside you he is probably got you in his arms and carrying you.

 

[Cornelius]

After true repentance , which means to change your mind, not just being "sorry", we change the way we walk.


We must enter the Kingdom (where God rules our lives and hearts ) Every time we run into sin, we must repent of it and ask God to help us overcome it. We overcome through our knowledge of the Word.

For instance: We have to take every thought captive, we have to cast down evil imaginations, we have to take the Word (Sword of the Spirit) and stand against sin.We must deny our flesh and choose God when we are tempted. That is what it means to take up your cross.(All these are instructions given to us by God through His Word) We have to be obedient to the Word and so we overcome sin after sin as we grow in maturity (obedience)

That is how we bear fruit. That is how we overcome.That is how we enter into the Kingdom NOW 1Co 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

Some preach that we can just carry on in our sin and just ask forgiveness all the time and yet the Bible says that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom 1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: So how on earth are they planning to enter?

Salvation of our spirit happens when we are first committed to this walk. But our soul is far from saved still : r minds (soul) must now be washed and come into line with the Word of God Rom 12:2 And be not fashioned according to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, and ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Any Christian that does not produce the fruit of repentance will not make it into the Kingdom Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: (Today they say" Yes but we are saved , I am a Christian".......no...you have to bring forth the fruit of your repentance, THEN you are saved )

 

[glorydaz]

Amen, brother....but it's a gift that is non-returnable.

God FORCES us to accept the gift??? And we cannot "give it back"??? People never lose faith in God??? (isn't faith a gift - and some lose it...)
Please note...I never said God forces us to accept the gift.
Perhaps you might want to re-think that.

In order for us to leave God, He would have to leave us,

Untrue.

Ever hear human songs of "I love him enough to let him go" and lyrics to that effect? God loves us enough to let us go, if that is what we truly desire. We believe God loves ALL men, even those who NEVER will accept Him. Thus, even if we were to desire to leave Him, His love is everlasting.
God is not the subject of a song. He has promised to never leave nor forsake us, and to keep all those the Father has given Him.

Our children can throw a fit and disobey, but, being the loving and wise parents that we are, we will never forsake them.

I never said God will leave us, but that we CAN leave God. God continues to love us in that situation. Doesn't God love us even BEFORE we convert, even while we are IN sin? It stands that God will continue to love us, even if we leave and never return, say as the prodigal son who never came home. The father would continue to love the son, but the son has free will to not come home, not convert, not re-establish the relationship. The Father, Love itself, allows us the choice, but that Love for us never dies, is always patient that we will come back to Him. If we don't, He loves us enough to let us go.
You're assuming God is unable to engineer our circumstances so that when we're forced to eat with pigs we will come home...just as the prodigal in the Bible did. He will lose none the Father has given Him.
If humans can display this love, surely, so can God.
It isn't love to let your child die...it's weakness. God is not weak.

We will discipline them until they return. As humans, we are limited in what we can do to bring our children into submission, but the great God of glory has no limitations. His power entends to all our circumstances...to our very health and even our lives. All things are possible with God, and Jesus will lose none the Father has given Him.

You are presuming that God is fighting us and our sinful desires because He needs us. Why would God FORCE us to love Him? Does He? Isn't His love quite subtle, His voice soft, appearing now and then in the ordinary events of our lives? God doesn't drag us into heaven, my friend.
No, I'm not assuming God needs us. I'm saying God loves us...we are His children.
No, God's love is far from subtle. He doesn't drag us into heaven, but He does keep us once we have become His children.
Otherwise, we would have NO ONE in hell, since God died for the sake of the world.
Oh, yes we would. All those who do not come to Him are not His sons.

The Lord doesn't force us to believe in Him, but He is faithful to keep those who come.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

OK, good, God's faithfulness remains, no matter what our response. But that faithfulness does not interfere with our free will choice to return to the vomit of our former lives. He allows us to make a shipwreck of our faith. The fact that some fall away and never return is proof to show that even righteous men can return to evil ways. As such, entering the Church is not a sign that we are "the ones given to the Son by the Father". Remember, many will say "Lord, Lord", thinking they are given to the Son by the Father, but Jesus will reply "I never knew you"... This verse is not really helpful for us, but indicates the relationship between the Father and the Son, since the Bible does not tell us "who the Father has given to the Son", specifically.

Regards

Yes, we can make a shipwreck of our lives when we don't obey.
Those who say, Lord, Lord, "thinking" they are saved were "never" known by the Lord. He doesn't use the term, "I never knew you" falsely.

We don't have the assurance of the believer for no reason.
Do you have any doubt whatsoever that you would ever fall away into unbelief?
I don't. That is the one unforgivable sin.

Unbelievers can make any claim they want. They claim the Bible says all kinds of things it doesn't. What we do have is the Holy Spirit bearing witness with our spirit. Nothing can pluck us out of His hand. Not satan, not sin, not disobedience.

 

[glorydaz]

I can't believe people are still arguing over something so simple. Did or didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins? If he did and as the Bible says it is a gift given freely to us, the only thing is that we accept this gift and if you accepted it then why worry. There is not one person on this earth that does not sin. If you say you do not then you are lying. I sin everyone sins at one time or another. In Gods eyes there is not big or little sin, a sin is a sin is a sin. IF he didn’t die for all of everyone sins then what did he do? Why would he go through the torture for nothing? And my point is why people want to put him back on the cross if they sin. It is already paid for. People that think that they have to be perfect are missing the point and are missing out on life as well. Jesus died so that we would not have to worry like in the Old Testament. What did I do this week that I will need to put up a sacrifice for? Or Am I covered if I should die in battle did I get the priest to send up prayers for me? We don’t have to do this anymore. When Christ died and the curtain in the holy of holies was torn we could go to God directly. He died for ALL of our sins past, present and future. When you become his child you are his forever, he holds to you. You don’t hold to him. The bible said that he will never leave you or forsake you. If he is not walking beside you he is probably got you in his arms and carrying you.

AMEN and again I say, AMEN.

 

[watchman F]

I can't believe people are still arguing over something so simple. Did or didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins? If he did and as the Bible says it is a gift given freely to us, the only thing is that we accept this gift and if you accepted it then why worry.

What if I want to give it back or throw it away? Are you saying God will not allow this?

 

[chestertonrules]

I can't believe people are still arguing over something so simple. Did or didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins? If he did and as the Bible says it is a gift given freely to us, the only thing is that we accept this gift and if you accepted it then why worry. .

Anything you accept can be later rejected.

Why are we exhorted to endure and perservere?

 

[archangel_300]

I can't believe people are still arguing over something so simple. Did or didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins? If he did and as the Bible says it is a gift given freely to us, the only thing is that we accept this gift and if you accepted it then why worry.

What if I want to give it back or throw it away? Are you saying God will not allow this?

You can't throw it away. If Christ paid for our sins on the cross and we have the capability of throwing it away and in so doing we can still end up in hell for our sins then this means that God is not just nor is he righteous. The blood of Christ purchased us and we are His possession.

 

[glorydaz]

[quote="watchman F"v9x7jsy]

I can't believe people are still arguing over something so simple. Did or didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins? If he did and as the Bible says it is a gift given freely to us, the only thing is that we accept this gift and if you accepted it then why worry.

What if I want to give it back or throw it away? Are you saying God will not allow this?

You can't throw it away. If Christ paid for our sins on the cross and we have the capability of throwing it away and in so doing we can still end up in hell for our sins then this means that God is not just nor is he righteous. The blood of Christ purchased us and we are His possession.[/quotev9x7jsy]

Amen....And why is this true? Because we have been bought with a price by the high priest that "liveth to make intercession" for us. It's a shame to think the blood can't keep us but our own works of obedience can.

Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

 

[glorydaz]

Anything you accept can be later rejected.

Why are we exhorted to endure and perservere?

Nothing can separate us from the love of God...

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We're told to endure and persevere because the world hates us and we're beset with many trials in this life. God tells us to fight the good fight by resting in His everlasting arms. We're to hold out against, resist, tolerate, continue, and last through all adversity. In other words, He's telling us to hang in there, trust in Him because He is our strength and shield. It's called encouragement so we don't have to rely on ourselves but God...so we will rest and trust in Him.

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

 

[beardedad]

I can't believe people are still arguing over something so simple. Did or didn’t Jesus die on the cross for our sins? If he did and as the Bible says it is a gift given freely to us, the only thing is that we accept this gift and if you accepted it then why worry.

What if I want to give it back or throw it away? Are you saying God will not allow this?

Then you were not his to begain with. Once you have something like this you don't want to throw it away or give it back. It is the devil that makes us doubt our salvation. Once you understand this you don't worry about losing it you try to serve God better but you know that you are going to make mistakes because of our human nature. Just don't sweat it. It will alll come out in the white wash.

 

[olympia]

olympia wrote:

When you believe righteousness is imputed to you and you are not ashamed to say so. How do you tell the difference between a believer and a non-believer? The believer believes with his heart that he is righteous and the non-believer confesses he is a sinner. It is as simple as that.

I think I understand what you're saying, and I agree Christ's righteousness has been imputed to those of us who are justified by faith. But, I don't think the non-believer confesses he is a sinner.

First of all every man; the world has been reconciled (justified) to God, 2 Cor 5:19 and so believing is the only thing required to be imputed righteousness. What to believe? That sin in the flesh has forgiven every man.

Second of all the world openly confesses that they are a sinner and sadly so do the churches.

Third, a Christian better not stand before God and say he is a 'poor old sinner saved by Grace', because he has just confessed that he does not believe Christ forgave the world of sin. You cannot be a sinner and be righteous at the same time, that is a major contradiction, we are either righteous or a sinner, one of the two.

 

[VertigoAge]

I touched on this topic in my last podcast, and here is how I see it: Our justification is only available via Jesus' death on the cross. It made available to us this grace that we accept by faith. If someone accepts this grace by making a commitment to the renewal of our mind, it's done... sealed. I don't subscribe to the position of irresistible grace, so in my world view it is a decision.

The tricky part is defining at which point that the Christian goes from "trying on" Christianity (as one does with a shirt at the store) to commitment (buying and wearing the shirt). I say tricky because there is a possibility of false commitment. Take this scenario as an example:

A child is raised in a Christian home. He goes to church and professes his belief in God to his parents. As a teenager, he rejects God because he believes that it's superstition. If it isn't provable with science, he doesn't believe it. Then as a young adult, he finds a girlfriend who is Christian and she takes him to services. His whole attitude changes, and he is "on fire" for God... does an altar call, and verbally commits to give his life over to Jesus. He is full of joy, and gives testimony all over town for about a year, then he and the girl break up. He still goes to church and identifies himself as a Christian, but the fire is fading. Doubt creeps in, and he slowly falls back into a life "of the world". Decades go by, and has become very jaded about the church and stops going. He says that he believes in God, but that religious people are a bunch of hypocrites. He never reads the Bible, hasn't prayed in 10 years, and lives a life of selfish pleasure. During his 40s, a neighbor moves in and they often have talks about the neighbor's faith. After a few months, our guy feels the stirring of the Holy Spirit. Only now does he understand how much he needs God in his life, but he knows it means he'll have to repent of his sins and change some of the ways he lives his life. At this crossroads, he goes "all in", and allows the Holy Spirit to guide him. He doesn't change overnight, but his Sanctification starts in earnest, and goes on until his death.

The way I see it, this guy's life was a series of starts, stops, and false commitments based on incomplete information, or an immature sense of wisdom. As a young adult, he was quite sure he was "saved", but his true sanctification process had not started, because his verbal commitment has shallow roots. This often happens when someone is pressured into giving their life to God. I also believe it is wrong to pressure young children "to be saved" and obsess about their status. They should be taught the foundation, but can only make a true commitment when they get older.

In my opinion, the term "saved" is misunderstood because we live in linear time and God doesn't. God knows whether each one of us is saved already, but we cannot ever know for sure if another person is saved. If the Holy Spirit allows, we will have a confidence and peace in our own salvation, but the real question a Christian should ask is "has my true preparation (aka Sanctification) begun?". Of course it's good to feel confident that you are on God's salvation list, but don't let that lead to complacency. Your job... your purpose in life is to accept God's grace and allow the Holy Spirit to renew your mind so you can bear fruit on Earth and move closer to what God wants you to be when Haven's doors are opened to you.

 

[olympia]

quote: beardedad

There is not one person on this earth that does not sin. If you say you do not then you are lying. I sin everyone sins at one time or another.

The trouble with you is that you are judging after the flesh and the flesh is dead. We are commanded not to do that! You have not reckoned yourself to be dead to sin, Romans 6:11.

I John 3:9, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remainethin him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

We are the body of Christ! Does the body of Christ sin? God forbid, for if we make ourselves out to be sinners is Christ the minister of sin? I think not, Gal 2:17.

You must not judge after the flesh, if you do then you will never understand our glorious redemption and you will condemn yourself in the day of judgment because you do not believe in the works of Christ.

Every Christian wants to be like Christ. Well, how was he? Jesus speaking to the Pharisees: Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.John 8:15.

And so to be like Christ we must walk in the spirit, for to be carnally minded (judging after the flesh) is death.