Once Saved, Always Saved?

[glorydaz]

Not everyone who professes to know the Lord is saved, but the true saints will persevere through the faith of Jesus Christ. It's His faith and God's grace...His obedience and the Father's will.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Some forget with God all things are possible while with man our salvation can appear "iffy" at best.

The blessed assurance of salvation is given to the sons of God...through the Holy Spirit bearing witness with our spirit.

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[francisdesales]

where does Jesus speak of "lesser rewards" for not doing His will or bearing good fruit???? He either speaks of eternal life, union with God OR eternal damnation, expulsion from the feast where there will be a chattering of teeth, etc., unto eternal damnation. In every case I have read, either one is cut off and cast into the fire or cast out into the night. Not exactly "lesser rewards"...

Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt 8:10b-12

And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen. Matt 22:11-14

Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth Matt 25:26-31

This is just from Matthew and from the words of Jesus. I could continue on and on, but this is plenty.

There is no rewards for being cast out into the night. Being disqualified means NO rewards. Not lesser rewards...

Hi Francis

It just amazes me that you would even consider verses pertaining to those whom are children of the devil, and even imply that these verses are talking about Christians who are born again of God's Spirit.

These promises of God are unto those who are not children of God, born of God's Spirit. !

The promises of God are true, that we shall be saved , yet by as of fire, but our rewards can be burned up !

It amazes me,

no, strike that,

...it is par for the course with you - how you IGNORE Sacred Writ. Over and over again.

I even underline a passage for you. Did you even READ these passages, or are you so "certain" of yourself that you override the Scriptures own words???

Furthermore, the parables clearly speak of people INSIDE who are cast out. The children of the devil do not come inside, since to get inside in the first place, one must accept Jesus as their savior and have faith in the proclamation, "Jesus is Lord". This is a movement of the Holy Spirit, a birth from ABOVE. Such is a child of God. One who is born from above and later cast out.

No rewards there...

As such, and as usual, your interpretations of Scriptures are faulty.

 

[Mysteryman]

where does Jesus speak of "lesser rewards" for not doing His will or bearing good fruit???? He either speaks of eternal life, union with God OR eternal damnation, expulsion from the feast where there will be a chattering of teeth, etc., unto eternal damnation. In every case I have read, either one is cut off and cast into the fire or cast out into the night. Not exactly "lesser rewards"...

Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt 8:10b-12

And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen. Matt 22:11-14

Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth Matt 25:26-31

This is just from Matthew and from the words of Jesus. I could continue on and on, but this is plenty.

There is no rewards for being cast out into the night. Being disqualified means NO rewards. Not lesser rewards...

Hi Francis

It just amazes me that you would even consider verses pertaining to those whom are children of the devil, and even imply that these verses are talking about Christians who are born again of God's Spirit.

These promises of God are unto those who are not children of God, born of God's Spirit. !

The promises of God are true, that we shall be saved , yet by as of fire, but our rewards can be burned up !

It amazes me,

no, strike that,

...it is par for the course with you - how you IGNORE Sacred Writ. Over and over again.

I even underline a passage for you. Did you even READ these passages, or are you so "certain" of yourself that you override the Scriptures own words???

Furthermore, the parables clearly speak of people INSIDE who are cast out. The children of the devil do not come inside, since to get inside in the first place, one must accept Jesus as their savior and have faith in the proclamation, "Jesus is Lord". This is a movement of the Holy Spirit, a birth from ABOVE. Such is a child of God. One who is born from above and later cast out.

No rewards there...

As such, and as usual, your interpretations of Scriptures are faulty.

Hi francis

The verses you brought forth unto the conversation pertain to those of the wicked one. But we are dealing with Christians here.

In I John 5:18 it states plain and clearly, that whosoever is born of God, keepeth himself , and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Why is it that you like to argue against scripture ?

 

[francisdesales]

Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt 8:10b-12

Hi francis

The verses you brought forth unto the conversation pertain to those of the wicked one. But we are dealing with Christians here.

In I John 5:18 it states plain and clearly, that whosoever is born of God, keepeth himself , and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Why is it that you like to argue against scripture ?

I can see why you call yourself "mysteryman". Is reading so mysterious? How about I highlight it, make it large font, and put it in red for you???????????????????

Matthew 8 clearly says "the children of the Kingdom [of God] will be cast out", sorry you disagree with the plain words of Sacred Scriptures - which, of course, points out another of the flaws of sola scriptura. You can even have the WORDS right in front of your face, but you still refuse to accept it, making sola scriptura null and void in practice...

Either you are plainly being argumentative, or you cannot admit you are wrong...

NO rewards in the darkness...

 

[watchman F]

Not everyone who professes to know the Lord is saved, but the true saints will persevere through the faith of Jesus Christ. It's His faith and God's grace...His obedience and the Father's will.

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Some forget with God all things are possible while with man our salvation can appear "iffy" at best.

The blessed assurance of salvation is given to the sons of God...through the Holy Spirit bearing witness with our spirit.
[quote="Romans 8:16":30oxaxtz]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

[/quote:30oxaxtz]It is the Fathers will that all be saved. Are you an universalist?

 

[Mysteryman]

Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt 8:10b-12

Hi francis

The verses you brought forth unto the conversation pertain to those of the wicked one. But we are dealing with Christians here.

In I John 5:18 it states plain and clearly, that whosoever is born of God, keepeth himself , and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Why is it that you like to argue against scripture ?

I can see why you call yourself "mysteryman". Is reading so mysterious? How about I highlight it, make it large font, and put it in red for you???????????????????

Matthew 8 clearly says "the children of the Kingdom [of God] will be cast out", sorry you disagree with the plain words of Sacred Scriptures - which, of course, points out another of the flaws of sola scriptura. You can even have the WORDS right in front of your face, but you still refuse to accept it, making sola scriptura null and void in practice...

Either you are plainly being argumentative, or you cannot admit you are wrong...

NO rewards in the darkness...

Hi francis

Why don't you make a sign that is 500 ft square, with neon lights. That might work !

You see the word "kingdom" and you assume it means the kingdom of God. In fact you inserted it into the verse. This word "kingdom" within this verse is talking about the kingdom of this world , not the kingdom of God !

Matt. 4:8 - "kingdoms of the world"

Matt. 12:26 - "how shall "his" kingdom stand"

Even God tells us within His Word that Satan is the god of this world !

And the Word is "clear" that we are not of this world !

And yet, you still argue against the truth ! Why ?

We are born of God's Spirit, and anyone born of God's Spirit keepeth himself from that wicked one !

Why do you and watchman, continue to kick against the pricks ? What do you gain from this kind of thinking ? Where is the profit from this kind of thinking ?

 

[watchman F]

Why do you and watchman, continue to kick against the pricks ? What do you gain from this kind of thinking ? Where is the profit from this kind of thinking ?

The fact is OSAS is a farce it is the same lie Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago, it is the original lie ''you shall not surely die''. The serpent asked Eve hasn't God said you can eat of all the trees in the garden, she replied of the tree in the midst of the garden God has said, you shall not eat, neither, touch it or else you will die. Then the serpent replied to the Eve, ''you shall not surely die''
Genesis 3:3-4
3 But of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye shall not eat, neither touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die.
This is the very same lie he is telling the church today. God has called us into to liberty, and made us free to live in abundant life. Yet God has also declared through His word that the wages of sin is death, but Satan has told us, ''you shall not surely die'' and we have bought it. God is looking for those that will stand firm against Satan and his schemes. That will stand for truth, and not be lulled to sleep by false doctrine that may be pleasing to our ears and flesh, but displease God.


It is you that is kicking against the pricks, and trying to pervert God's word to suit your flesh, rather than believing it for what it says.

 

[Mysteryman]

Why do you and watchman, continue to kick against the pricks ? What do you gain from this kind of thinking ? Where is the profit from this kind of thinking ?

The fact is OSAS is a farce it is the same lie Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago, it is the original lie ''you shall not surely die''. The serpent asked Eve hasn't God said you can eat of all the trees in the garden, she replied of the tree in the midst of the garden God has said, you shall not eat, neither, touch it or else you will die. Then the serpent replied to the Eve, ''you shall not surely die''
Genesis 3:3-4
3 But of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye shall not eat, neither touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die.
This is the very same lie he is telling the church today. God has called us into to liberty, and made us free to live in abundant life. Yet God has also declared through His word that the wages of sin is death, but Satan has told us, ''you shall not surely die'' and we have bought it. God is looking for those that will stand firm against Satan and his schemes. That will stand for truth, and not be lulled to sleep by false doctrine that may be pleasing to our ears and flesh, but displease God.


It is you that is kicking against the pricks, and trying to pervert God's word to suit your flesh, rather than believing it for what it says.

Hi W.

Yes, it is the greatest lie ever told ! "ye shall not surely die".

But you forget, that man could not redeem himself. Never could, and never will ! You are also claiming that our redemption is faulty with a loop hole of sorts.

Your claiming that the wicked one can touch us now, and that we can be deceived into believing that we can sin a sin unto death. But this is not true ! The reason it is not true, is because we have the Spirit of God in us. Unlike any others that ever walked the face of this earth. Having the Spirit of God in us, gives us the ability to see with our spiritual eyes wide open. We can not be deceived into believing that if we blaspheme the Holy Spirit we can get away with it. Christians would never do such a thing ! That is because we would never believe the greatest lie ever told ! We know that we would die into the second death if we did blaspheme the Holy Spirit. God put his laws into our hearts, so that we can not be deceived into believing the adversaries lies ! Christians would have to willfully sin. And lets not forget, that there are sins that are not unto death. There are sins, and man sins and falls short of the glory of God. But Christians would never go out and intentionally murder someone. If anyone who claimed to be a Christian did intentionally murder someone. Then that person was never a Christian in the first place !

I John 4:4 - "Ye are of God little children, and have overcome them : because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world"

I John 4:7 - "everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God"

I John 5:18 - "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not ( sin unto death ) but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself (from sinning a sin unto death ) , and that wicked one toucheth him not"

 

[francisdesales]

Hi francis

Why don't you make a sign that is 500 ft square, with neon lights. That might work !

Probably not. But others will at least see that you refuse to admit your error...

You see the word "kingdom" and you assume it means the kingdom of God. In fact you inserted it into the verse. This word "kingdom" within this verse is talking about the kingdom of this world , not the kingdom of God !

Wrong again...

Like I said, read the verses in context, and you cannot possibly get "kingdom of the world".

What a sad attempt to twist Scriptures...

"Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth". Matt 8:10b-12

The "Kingdom" is clearly not refering to the "kingdoms of the world".

Another reason why sola scriptura fails.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi francis

Why don't you make a sign that is 500 ft square, with neon lights. That might work !

Probably not. But others will at least see that you refuse to admit your error...

You see the word "kingdom" and you assume it means the kingdom of God. In fact you inserted it into the verse. This word "kingdom" within this verse is talking about the kingdom of this world , not the kingdom of God !

Wrong again...

Like I said, read the verses in context, and you cannot possibly get "kingdom of the world".

What a sad attempt to twist Scriptures...

"Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth". Matt 8:10b-12

The "Kingdom" is clearly not refering to the "kingdoms of the world".

Another reason why sola scriptura fails.

Hi francis

Others will see whatever they want to see. Your not going to sway them in any way !

Your private interpretation here is just an example of what I have been talking about. You use scripture, but you don't know how to let scripture interpret itself.

It state here, "the children of the kingdom" < But this verse does not state which kingdom it is talking about. So you insert your own private interpretations, by inserting the words "of God" here ! Now we all know that this was very evident.

Only those of the kingdom of this world are going to the second death. And the Word is very clear, that we as Christians are not of this world ! All you need to do now, is accept the truth . Or , you can deny it, its your choice !

Remember this also, context goes beyond two verses of scripture. The whole church epsitles are context as well.
Bless

 

[watchman F]

Why do you and watchman, continue to kick against the pricks ? What do you gain from this kind of thinking ? Where is the profit from this kind of thinking ?

The fact is OSAS is a farce it is the same lie Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago, it is the original lie ''you shall not surely die''. The serpent asked Eve hasn't God said you can eat of all the trees in the garden, she replied of the tree in the midst of the garden God has said, you shall not eat, neither, touch it or else you will die. Then the serpent replied to the Eve, ''you shall not surely die''
Genesis 3:3-4
3 But of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye shall not eat, neither touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die.
This is the very same lie he is telling the church today. God has called us into to liberty, and made us free to live in abundant life. Yet God has also declared through His word that the wages of sin is death, but Satan has told us, ''you shall not surely die'' and we have bought it. God is looking for those that will stand firm against Satan and his schemes. That will stand for truth, and not be lulled to sleep by false doctrine that may be pleasing to our ears and flesh, but displease God.


It is you that is kicking against the pricks, and trying to pervert God's word to suit your flesh, rather than believing it for what it says.

Hi W.

Yes, it is the greatest lie ever told ! "ye shall not surely die".

But you forget, that man could not redeem himself. Never could, and never will ! You are also claiming that our redemption is faulty with a loop hole of sorts.

Yep there is a loop whole made by God Himself. He sent His Son to pay our price, and if we receive forgiveness through the blood of the Lamb we will be saved. However if we willfully continue to sin after receiving this gift, then there is no more sacrifice for sin and we will face the fiery judgment that God will pour out upon His adversaries.

Do you not believe salvation comes through the blood of Christ?

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi W.

Yes, it is the greatest lie ever told ! "ye shall not surely die".

But you forget, that man could not redeem himself. Never could, and never will ! You are also claiming that our redemption is faulty with a loop hole of sorts.[/quote]Yep there is a loop wh9ole made by God Himself. He sent His Son to pay our price, and if we receive forgiveness through the blood of the Lamb we will be saved. However if we continue to sin after receiving this gift, then there is no more sacrifice for sin and we will face the fiery judgment that God will pour out upon His adversaries.

Do you not believe salvation comes through the blood of Christ?[/quote]


Hi W.

What is this ---- IF ---- stuff you are talking about ? If we receive forgiveness through his blood ?

Christians were chosen from before the foundations of the world, to be holy and without blame in him in love. As Jesus told his disciples, "you didn't choose me, I chose you". And he said - "my sheep hear my voice".

If what ???

 

[watchman F]

Hi W.

Yes, it is the greatest lie ever told ! "ye shall not surely die".

But you forget, that man could not redeem himself. Never could, and never will ! You are also claiming that our redemption is faulty with a loop hole of sorts.

Yep there is a loop whole made by God Himself. He sent His Son to pay our price, and if we receive forgiveness through the blood of the Lamb we will be saved. However if we willfully continue to sin after receiving this gift, then there is no more sacrifice for sin and we will face the fiery judgment that God will pour out upon His adversaries.

Do you not believe salvation comes through the blood of Christ?

Hi W.

What is this ---- IF ---- stuff you are talking about ? If we receive forgiveness through his blood ?

Christians were chosen from before the foundations of the world, to be holy and without blame in him in love. As Jesus told his disciples, "you didn't choose me, I chose you". And he said - "my sheep hear my voice".

If what ???

Ahh, why didn't I realize this at first, because of your insistence on Eternal Security and you pompous attitude. You are a Calvinist, that explains a lot.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi W.

Yes, it is the greatest lie ever told ! "ye shall not surely die".

But you forget, that man could not redeem himself. Never could, and never will ! You are also claiming that our redemption is faulty with a loop hole of sorts.

Yep there is a loop whole made by God Himself. He sent His Son to pay our price, and if we receive forgiveness through the blood of the Lamb we will be saved. However if we willfully continue to sin after receiving this gift, then there is no more sacrifice for sin and we will face the fiery judgment that God will pour out upon His adversaries.

Do you not believe salvation comes through the blood of Christ?

Hi W.

What is this ---- IF ---- stuff you are talking about ? If we receive forgiveness through his blood ?

Christians were chosen from before the foundations of the world, to be holy and without blame in him in love. As Jesus told his disciples, "you didn't choose me, I chose you". And he said - "my sheep hear my voice".

If what ???

Ahh, why didn't I realize this at first, but your insistence on Eternal Security and you pompous attitude. You are a Calvinist, that explains a lot.

Hi W.

What --- pompos attitude ?

I never meet the man, who is a Calvinist ? Is he a Calvin of the higher or lower order ?

 

[glorydaz]

Not everyone who professes to know the Lord is saved, but the true saints will persevere through the faith of Jesus Christ. It's His faith and God's grace...His obedience and the Father's will.
[quote="John 6:39-40":37j23u9v] And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Some forget with God all things are possible while with man our salvation can appear "iffy" at best.

The blessed assurance of salvation is given to the sons of God...through the Holy Spirit bearing witness with our spirit.
[quote="Romans 8:16":37j23u9v]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

[/quote:37j23u9v]It is the Fathers will that all be saved. Are you an universalist?[/quote:37j23u9v]

That's what you get for leaving out parts of a verse.
It's "all which he hath given..."....not ALL. It's amazing what a few little words can do, isn't it?

Those who see and believe. That is hardly ALL. Speed reading isn't really the best way to read Scripture. :biglaugh

Do you deliberately misread or is it just a habit?

 

[glorydaz]

Why do you and watchman, continue to kick against the pricks ? What do you gain from this kind of thinking ? Where is the profit from this kind of thinking ?

The fact is OSAS is a farce it is the same lie Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago, it is the original lie ''you shall not surely die''. The serpent asked Eve hasn't God said you can eat of all the trees in the garden, she replied of the tree in the midst of the garden God has said, you shall not eat, neither, touch it or else you will die. Then the serpent replied to the Eve, ''you shall not surely die''
Genesis 3:3-4
3 But of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye shall not eat, neither touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die.
This is the very same lie he is telling the church today. God has called us into to liberty, and made us free to live in abundant life. Yet God has also declared through His word that the wages of sin is death, but Satan has told us, ''you shall not surely die'' and we have bought it. God is looking for those that will stand firm against Satan and his schemes. That will stand for truth, and not be lulled to sleep by false doctrine that may be pleasing to our ears and flesh, but displease God.


It is you that is kicking against the pricks, and trying to pervert God's word to suit your flesh, rather than believing it for what it says.

No, the lie is that those who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, will be abandoned by God if they aren't perfect. That does nothing but diminish the work of the cross, and deny the power of the Lord to keep those who have been given Him by the Father. It puts the power of salvation on man's ability to keep himself.

 

[glorydaz]

Wrong again...

Like I said, read the verses in context, and you cannot possibly get "kingdom of the world".

What a sad attempt to twist Scriptures...

"Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth". Matt 8:10b-12

The "Kingdom" is clearly not refering to the "kingdoms of the world".

Another reason why sola scriptura fails.

If you read the verse in context, you'll see Jesus is talking about Israel.

It's speaking of the faithless Jews.

 

[watchman F]

Hi W.

What --- pompos attitude ?

I never meet the man, who is a Calvinist ? Is he a Calvin of the higher or lower order ?

You weren't born yesterday, you know exactly who Calvin is and what a Calvinist is, and if you dont you are one.

 

[watchman F]

No, the lie is that those who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, will be abandoned by God if they aren't perfect.

No one ever said that, so take your straw man and go home

 

[Mysteryman]

No, the lie is that those who have been saved, born again of the Spirit, will be abandoned by God if they aren't perfect.

No one ever said that, so take your straw man and go home

Hi watchman

You need to work on your communication skills. Your replies are not productive.