ONE EDUCATED PERSPECTIVE ON "WHO IS SATAN?"

[jeremiah1five]

A doctrine of there are no demons IS a doctrine of demons !

NO ! I will never accept any such thing ! My reason , I can read the bible and understand what a "familiar spirit " is .

Familiar Spirit , Devil , Demon , Evil Spirit

Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.

Leviticus 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

Deuteronomy 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

1 Samuel 28:3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.

1 Samuel 28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

1 Samuel 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.

1 Samuel 28:9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?

2 Kings 21:6 And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.

1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;

2 Chronicles 33:6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Isaiah 19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.

Isaiah 29:4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

Familiar spirits are not "demons."
They originate in man.

19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits,
And unto wizards that peep, and that mutter:
Should not a people seek unto their God?
For the living to the dead?
Is 8:19.

"Familiar": [Strong's H#178] from the same as <H1> (‘ab) (apparently through the idea of prattling a father’s name); probably a mumble, i.e. a water- skin (from its hollow sound); hence a necromancer (ventriloquist, as from a jar)

The words "familiar spirits" are two English words to translate the one Hebrew word "ʾôb." It is translated in the KJV as "familiar spirit(s)" 16 times and "bottles" 1 time.

I don't see Satan or demons here.

31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. Lev. 19:31.

[H#3049] the word is "yidd eʿōnî" from [H3045] (yada`); properly a knowing one; specifically a conjurer; (by implication) a ghost.

I don't see Satan or demons here either. And the word "wizards" is "ʾôb" as above. It is translated "wizards" 11 times.
It's the same in Leviticus 20:27 and in all your passages of Scripture above.

3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land. 1 Sa 28:3.

Notice Saul put away and chased these persons that practiced "fortune telling" out of the land. He didn't chase Satan and demons out of the land but people.

Your Scriptures don't evidence any Satan or demons. The Hebrew words do not define these "familiar spirits" these "mumblers" and "ventriloquists" and "bottle" whisperers as Satan and demons the way you present them and the way the Gentile Church believes them today. The Holy Spirit is identifying these persons as just that: people.
If Israel really believed they were dealing with Satan (who is locked up) and "demons" that are nothing they would have had mass stoning's, but this isn't the case. They were dealing with people who leaned on their own understanding in the vanity of their minds. There is "Satan" nowhere in your Scriptures and why is that? Because this theology is particular to the Gentile Church, and it is false doctrine.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes believers only. The word Jew in respect to born again member as the one bride is not reckoned after the flesh of a outward Jew. As new born aging creature we are no longer considered male nor female Jew nor gentile walk by faith the unseen eternal

That's true but this is addressed to Jewish Christians who accepted Christ as their long-awaited Messiah in fulfillment of their covenants and prophecies. Paul was writing to Jewish Christians.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
The flesh of a Jew was used to represent all the nations of the world under the spiritual unseen seed Christ(one not many after the flesh . Abram before he was born agin Abram the exalted father of one family. . made up of two nations as a family His Father a hittite and mother a amorite

Again, Paul writes to Jewish believers in Christ at Rome. He is explaining the effect the arrival of Israel's Messiah had on Judaism.

Ezekiel 16:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.

This does not describe parentage of Jerusalem or the Israel people but that their sins were not only as worse as the father who was Canaanite and a by word for moral decadence but the mother also who was wretched just the same at the Amorite who inhabited Canaan.

Sorry for your confusion .Satan the author. He hates parables they expose his dark ways
No mixing no gospel rest . parables designed by God teach us how to walk after our unseen eternal Holy God .
Hebrews 4:1-2 King James Version Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Dig a little search for as silver or gold it won't change the outcome the simplicity of the gospel just a little richer, green grass still living water richer . . be careful on how you hear by it we will be judged or evaluated as believers.

A letter to Hebrew. Read and understand it in that context and you'll gain much instead of understanding with a Gentile mind.

 

[Randy]

Quite the contrary according to Peter and Jude who say the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment:

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 5–6.

Notice that these are "of this world."

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph. 6:12.

This refers to man and men. The angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment.

The word "devil" is an adjective. It means "traducer" and false accuser" and "liar [Strong's]. It is not a noun or pronoun or personal pronoun, meaning you can't make an adjective a person.

Jesus cast out demons as was testified to.
Jesus Himself was tempted by Satan in the wilderness as was testified to.
The testimony in Rev 12 states Satan was cast down to the earth.
But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”

In the days of the sounding of the 5th trump of God Satan is given the keys to the Abyss. He releases the Angel of the Abyss noted as the Beast or destroyer so there are some Spirits locked up but not all and not Satan.

When Jesus returns with the armies of heaven the Beast and his false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. Satan is bound for those 1000 years so that he can't lead the world astray in those 1000 years.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus cast out demons as was testified to.
Jesus Himself was tempted by Satan in the wilderness as was testified to.

Satan didn't tempt Jesus. He and all the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. 2 Peter 2:4. Ever read it?

This is what James says about temptation:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed
James 1:14.

It also says this:

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb. 4:15.

James says we are tempted by our own lust (from within) and so was Jesus. His temptation was "from His own lust" (from within).

If He wasn't tempted as we are then He cannot understand what it is to be tempted and HAS NOT been touched by the feeling of our infimities. There are not two ways to be tempted but one: from our own lust.

The testimony in Rev 12 states Satan was cast down to the earth.
But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”
In the days of the sounding of the 5th trump of God Satan is given the keys to the Abyss. He releases the Angel of the Abyss noted as the Beast or destroyer so there are some Spirits locked up but not all and not Satan.
When Jesus returns with the armies of heaven the Beast and his false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. Satan is bound for those 1000 years so that he can't lead the world astray in those 1000 years.

When Jesus returns, He is going to war against Israel's enemies and will fight along their side.
What do you think about that?
It would be a good idea to be on Israel's side, too.

 

[hawkman]

Does anyone on this thread know what a mockery of Christianity would look like ?

I see it , do you ?

 

[GodsGrace]

Does anyone on this thread know what a mockery of Christianity would look like ?

I see it , do you ?

Could you be more specific?

 

[hawkman]

Could you be more specific?

Satan didn't tempt Jesus.

James says we are tempted by our own lust (from within) and so was Jesus. His temptation was "from His own lust" (from within).

If you believe what jeremiah1five has said you will end up with Jesus in the temptation in the wilderness talking to his self . Because jeremiah1five said there is no satan .

 

[GodsGrace]

If you believe what jeremiah1five has said you will end up with Jesus in the temptation in the wilderness talking to his self . Because jeremiah1five said there is no satan .

The bible clearly states there is an evil being called satan/the devil.

It's unfortunate that some believe he does not exist.

This is the biggest lie satan has perpetrated on humanity.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Does anyone on this thread know what a mockery of Christianity would look like ?

I see it , do you ?

I do, too.

 

[GodsGrace]

 

[jeremiah1five]

If you believe what jeremiah1five has said you will end up with Jesus in the temptation in the wilderness talking to his self . Because jeremiah1five said there is no satan .

In order to believe Jesus was tempted by an outside influence would have to reject James 1:14 which says temptation comes when one is tempted of his own lust.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

And this doesn't bother you?

 

[GodsGrace]

In order to believe Jesus was tempted by an outside influence would have to reject James 1:14 which says temptation comes when one is tempted of his own lust.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

And this doesn't bother you?

Not every temptation comes from satan, though it wouldn't be incorrect to say that ALL evil originates from satan.

James is speaking about our own misdirected desires. SOME of our behavior comes from obeying the evil one.
Romans 6:16

Some of our sin comes from human weakness, for instance if we become momentarily angered and behave in an unspiritual manner.
James 1;14

 

[hawkman]

In order to believe Jesus was tempted by an outside influence would have to reject James 1:14 which says temptation comes when one is tempted of his own lust.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

And this doesn't bother you?

I apologize for the mockery comment , just because I think it does not mean I need to say it .

Without satan/devil I can not make these verses in Matthew 4 make sense .

1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

 

[hawkman]

Some of our sin comes from human weakness, for instance if we become momentarily angered and behave in an unspiritual manner.
James 1;14

True .

 

[GodsGrace]

I apologize for the mockery comment , just because I think it does not mean I need to say it .

Without satan/devil I can not make these verses in Matthew 4 make sense .

1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

And so many more verses....

 

[Iconoclast]

Satan didn't tempt Jesus. He and all the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. 2 Peter 2:4. Ever read it?

This is what James says about temptation:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed
James 1:14.

It also says this:

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb. 4:15.

James says we are tempted by our own lust (from within) and so was Jesus. His temptation was "from His own lust" (from within).

If He wasn't tempted as we are then He cannot understand what it is to be tempted and HAS NOT been touched by the feeling of our infimities. There are not two ways to be tempted but one: from our own lust.

When Jesus returns, He is going to war against Israel's enemies and will fight along their side.
What do you think about that?
It would be a good idea to be on Israel's side, too.

Jesus did not have any inward lust. This is a blasphemous suggestion.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Not every temptation comes from satan, though it wouldn't be incorrect to say that ALL evil originates from satan.

James is speaking about our own misdirected desires. SOME of our behavior comes from obeying the evil one.
Romans 6:16

Some of our sin comes from human weakness, for instance if we become momentarily angered and behave in an unspiritual manner.
James 1;14

ALL of our temptation comes from within us. ALL of Jesus' temptation came from within Him. It was the human nature of Christ that was being tested. The Logos needed no testing.
IF Jesus was tempted by an external source such as "Satan" which the Gentile Church believes then Jesus wasn't tempted as we were and CANNOT be our High Priest.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb. 4:15.

James says:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

This is very clear. ALL our temptation is from within and does not come from any external sources. This method of our temptation is universal meaning it applies to everyone, even the woman, and definitely with regard to Christ.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. Gen. 3:6.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 Jn 2:15–16.

ALL three of these were included in Christ's temptation.

Bread: the lust of the flesh.
Up on the Temple: lust of the eyes.
Submit to the human nature and worship its humanity: pride of life.

If Christ was not tempted the same as we are which is from within our own desires, then He cannot be our High Priest and is a fraud.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I apologize for the mockery comment , just because I think it does not mean I need to say it .

Without satan/devil I can not make these verses in Matthew 4 make sense .

1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Then you must study more. Christ had a human nature and a Deific nature (Logos).
We cannot begin to imagine what that is like. But the human nature was what needed to be tested.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb. 4:15.

If Christ was not tempted as we are then He cannot be our High Priest.
Plain and simple.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jesus did not have any inward lust. This is a blasphemous suggestion.

He didn't?

Bread. He was hungered. He is human and He is God. The human nature is what needed to be tested.
The pinnicle of the Temple. He knew He was God's Son and He knew if He did throw Himself off the angels would catch Him.
Worship. This temptation was directed to the Logos.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb. 4:15.

If James is true, and it is, then Hebrews must be true also for if He was tempted by an external influence ("devil," "Satan") and our temptation is from within, then He was NOT "touched with the feeling of our infirmity" and cannot be our High Priest and is a fraud.

Before you start throwing "blaspheming" around make sure you know the theology and doctrine.

 

[Iconoclast]

He didn't?

Bread. He was hungered. He is human and He is God. The human nature is what needed to be tested.
The pinnicle of the Temple. He knew He was God's Son and He knew if He did throw Himself off the angels would catch Him.
Worship. This temptation was directed to the Logos.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb. 4:15.

If James is true, and it is, then Hebrews must be true also for if He was tempted by an external influence ("devil," "Satan") and our temptation is from within, then He was NOT "touched with the feeling of our infirmity" and cannot be our High Priest and is a fraud.

Before you start throwing "blaspheming" around make sure you know the theology and doctrine.

You do not know squat. Your post is profane.