ONE EDUCATED PERSPECTIVE ON "WHO IS SATAN?"

[Free]

Familiar spirits are not "demons."
They originate in man.

19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits,
And unto wizards that peep, and that mutter:
Should not a people seek unto their God?
For the living to the dead?
Is 8:19.

"Familiar": [Strong's H#178] from the same as <H1> (‘ab) (apparently through the idea of prattling a father’s name); probably a mumble, i.e. a water- skin (from its hollow sound); hence a necromancer (ventriloquist, as from a jar)

The words "familiar spirits" are two English words to translate the one Hebrew word "ʾôb." It is translated in the KJV as "familiar spirit(s)" 16 times and "bottles" 1 time.

I don't see Satan or demons here.

31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God. Lev. 19:31.

[H#3049] the word is "yidd eʿōnî" from [H3045] (yada`); properly a knowing one; specifically a conjurer; (by implication) a ghost.

I don't see Satan or demons here either. And the word "wizards" is "ʾôb" as above. It is translated "wizards" 11 times.
It's the same in Leviticus 20:27 and in all your passages of Scripture above.

3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land. 1 Sa 28:3.

Notice Saul put away and chased these persons that practiced "fortune telling" out of the land. He didn't chase Satan and demons out of the land but people.

Your Scriptures don't evidence any Satan or demons. The Hebrew words do not define these "familiar spirits" these "mumblers" and "ventriloquists" and "bottle" whisperers as Satan and demons the way you present them and the way the Gentile Church believes them today. The Holy Spirit is identifying these persons as just that: people.
If Israel really believed they were dealing with Satan (who is locked up) and "demons" that are nothing they would have had mass stoning's, but this isn't the case. They were dealing with people who leaned on their own understanding in the vanity of their minds. There is "Satan" nowhere in your Scriptures and why is that? Because this theology is particular to the Gentile Church, and it is false doctrine.

Satan is everywhere in Scripture, as a proper noun, meaning a specific individual being. Demons are mentioned many times in the gospels. It is true biblical doctrine.

 

[Free]

Please address the arguments and ideas and do not attack the person.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Satan is everywhere in Scripture, as a proper noun, meaning a specific individual being. Demons are mentioned many times in the gospels. It is true biblical doctrine.

Israel never dealt with "Satan" [adversary] or "demons" in their history the way the Gentile Church believes them to be except where the word "satan" is used in describing a human adversary.
And if there is no Old Testament precedent there is no New Testament reality.

 

[Randy]

Satan didn't tempt Jesus. He and all the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment. 2 Peter 2:4. Ever read it?

This is what James says about temptation:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed
James 1:14.

It also says this:

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb. 4:15.

James says we are tempted by our own lust (from within) and so was Jesus. His temptation was "from His own lust" (from within).

If He wasn't tempted as we are then He cannot understand what it is to be tempted and HAS NOT been touched by the feeling of our infimities. There are not two ways to be tempted but one: from our own lust.

When Jesus returns, He is going to war against Israel's enemies and will fight along their side.
What do you think about that?
It would be a good idea to be on Israel's side, too.

I think the Holy City, Jerusalem, is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt in the days of Rev 11.

Total unbelief on your part. I don't have to justify the testimony given.

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.”

11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

 

[hawkman]

Then you must study more.

We all should , but thank you for the reminder .

Christ had a human nature and a Deific nature (Logos).

From what we read in the bible of course .

We cannot begin to imagine what that is like.

Maybe you don't want to imagine what that is like .

jeremiah1five you should work on developing your imagination . We are told "we have the mind of Christ " .

1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

And we are "partakers of the divine nature " ! 2Peter1:4

2 Peter 1​

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

I stopped at verse 6 , right there is a verse I need to take to heart and work on .

 

[Randy]

Israel never dealt with "Satan" [adversary] or "demons" in their history the way the Gentile Church believes them to be except where the word "satan" is used in describing a human adversary.
And if there is no Old Testament precedent there is no New Testament reality.

Nobody healed like Jesus. The testimony states Jesus casting out demons by the Spirit of God. The fact that His adversaries accused Him of doing those works by the power of the prince of demons shows the belief of such spirits was not invented by the NT writers. I don't have to justify those testimonies. Either you believe or you don't and so far by your replies you don't accept their testimony. If you don't listen to them then you are not going to listen to me as those testimonies are the source of my understanding.

The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”

18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Rev 12 again
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short.”

 

[jeremiah1five]

I think the Holy City, Jerusalem, is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt in the days of Rev 11.

I agree. But it can also be a spiritualization as well. It must be a reference to the decadence of these peoples' for we know 'our Lord' wasn't crucified there.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev. 11:8.

Total unbelief on your part. I don't have to justify the testimony given.

If you make a comment about this "so-great salvation" you need to post Scripture to back up your assertions. We cannot show others that God is not truly our Father in lies and half-truths.

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

Again, the word "devil" is an adjective. It's not a noun. You cannot make an adjective into a personal pronoun or a noun. It is grammatically impossible unless you want to bastardize the truth of the Holy Writ.

4 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

Yes. These are the cogitations of the Lord. The human aspect of Jesus is what was hungered. It was His flesh. And it was His human part that was being tested. God doesn't get hungry and doesn't eat. The hypostatic union of Jesus Christ is unique in human history so it/He cannot be seen as being different from humans, but He is. He is the God-man. Notice also the Holy Spirit uses the human name that was 'driven' into the desert to be tempted and not "the Lord," or "Christ" [title of Deity] in the narration. Also notice the Holy Spirit calls the human part of the Lord "devil" (adjective.)

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

Jese merely walked into town and ascended the stairs to the pinnacle.

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”
7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’

As I said, the temptation comes from within as James tells us (whether you refuse to believe James) and the cogitation is that Jesus knew who He was. At the age of twelve He was in the Temple going about His Father's business. So, He knew. If He would have obey his human part that was being tested and threw Himself He would have as Scripture said been borne by the angels, failed the test, be saved, and die without a resurrection (failing God is sin).

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

Jesus knew He was destined to rule. That was one of the things God promised Him in exchange of fulfilling the Father's plan to become man to save His sinful creation: man.

10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

Humans and the human nature are adversaries of God.
It's a shame you want to believe Lucifer is out of his prison and loose of the planet when God says in 2 Peter and in Jude unequivocally that the angels that sinned are locked up.
Do some original thinking and let go of all those commentaries and Gentile-mindset theology of the Jewish Scriptures. You're just regurgitating all the error you read.

 

[jeremiah1five]

We all should , but thank you for the reminder .
From what we read in the bible of course .
Maybe you don't want to imagine what that is like .
jeremiah1five you should work on developing your imagination . We are told "we have the mind of Christ " .

The Mind of the Spirit [Christ] are the Scriptures and Paul had the Scriptures of the First Covenant with him plus being a Pharisee he knew the Scripture from which he taught his Jewish brethren wherever he went. The Scripture is the Mind of Christ. Surely, you cannot be thinking you have the actual mind of Christ, do you?

1 Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

And we are "partakers of the divine nature " ! 2Peter1:4

2 Peter 1​

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

I stopped at verse 6 , right there is a verse I need to take to heart and work on .

Peter is apostle to the Jews. He writes to Jews in both letters.
Try understanding from a Jewish perspective instead of a Gentile mind-set perspective.
This is important to understand the Scripture which are all Jewish writings to a Jewish audience from Jewish Christians.

 

[gordon777]

He didn't?

Bread. He was hungered. He is human and He is God. The human nature is what needed to be tested.
The pinnicle of the Temple. He knew He was God's Son and He knew if He did throw Himself off the angels would catch Him.
Worship. This temptation was directed to the Logos.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:14.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Heb. 4:15.

If James is true, and it is, then Hebrews must be true also for if He was tempted by an external influence ("devil," "Satan") and our temptation is from within, then He was NOT "touched with the feeling of our infirmity" and cannot be our High Priest and is a fraud.

Before you start throwing "blaspheming" around make sure you know the theology and doctrine.

If you are asking of Jesus Christ had feelings of lust , that is the time past when men of this world fulfilled the lusts of the flesh, had desires of the flesh, and it is also through the spirit, ( the devil) that now works in the children of disobedience.

Obedience is Christ, the Holy Spirit, quickened together with Christ, raised together in heavenly places.

To suffer in the flesh is to cease from sin, which is the example of Christ, and it is as told, TO NO LONGER LIVE THE RE4ST OF YOUR TIME IN THE FLESH, TO THE LUSTS OF MEN. ( Christ had no lust, it is lust of men, not the example of Christ to cease from sin.)

The time past was when we did the will of man, which is in lusts, but ow it is the will of God, which cannot be in lusts, it is different. ( all old is passed away.)

The man that endures temptations is blessed, and the men who do not endure temptations, have lusts, and every man is tempted when drawn away of his lusts, and enticed, ( by the spirit of satan in them to draw them away from God) and satan was not in Christ, but had come to him, and then had to go away. ( but the Holy Sprit had come to Christ and remained on Him which descended from heaven.)



Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:


James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[gordon777]

Everybody in this thread, Jeremiah 1 is using his own verses, which he does not want explaining, either he will ignore what is shown to him by me just now, or will explain now, that an explanation of the verses he uses came to him.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Nobody healed like Jesus. The testimony states Jesus casting out demons by the Spirit of God. The fact that His adversaries accused Him of doing those works by the power of the prince of demons shows the belief of such spirits was not invented by the NT writers. I don't have to justify those testimonies. Either you believe or you don't and so far by your replies you don't accept their testimony. If you don't listen to them then you are not going to listen to me as those testimonies are the source of my understanding.

Unbelief began in the Garden and man has the corner market on unbelief and calling God a liar every moment of every day.
When you make a comment about God and this "so-great salvation" it's proper to sometimes post Scripture. But that is not enough. Provide the Jewish perspective on the Scripture because the Scripture is written by Jews to a Jewish audience, and it speaks of Jewish religion, concepts and ideas.

The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.”
18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20 However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Yes, and here's the fall:

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Is 14:15.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude 6.

See that? Scripture agreeing with Scripture. But it's men's vain interpretations that are their undoing in understanding God's Word. You see, I THINK. I don't regurgitate other peoples' bible studies and commentaries. I actually spend 90% of my day thinking about Scripture trying to reason out this and that. I use only one linguist: James Strong, one Bible: The Authorized King James Version, and trust the Holy Spirit. And my knowledge and understanding are in accordance with my spiritual gifts.

Rev 12 again
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short.”

Yes. Man is adversary to God.
But this adversary is someone that had been cast down to hell and locked up in chains of darkness. His time is short because he will be let loose a little while to deceive Gog and Magog for one final battle and then the end will come for him.
THIS is the judgment: The Lake of Fire.
The sting of sin. Unatoned sin.

 

[jeremiah1five]

If you are asking of Jesus Christ had feelings of lust , that is the time past when men of this world fulfilled the lusts of the flesh, had desires of the flesh, and it is also through the spirit, ( the devil) that now works in the children of disobedience.

Jesus is a man. If Jesus didn't have lust as man, then the temptation was a sham.
Jesus Christ was also a man. His human nature was being tested not the Logos.

Obedience is Christ, the Holy Spirit, quickened together with Christ, raised together in heavenly places.
To suffer in the flesh is to cease from sin, which is the example of Christ, and it is as told, TO NO LONGER LIVE THE RE4ST OF YOUR TIME IN THE FLESH, TO THE LUSTS OF MEN. ( Christ had no lust, it is lust of men, not the example of Christ to cease from sin.)

Temptation is a suffering. And temptation is what Jesus went through as a man.

The time past was when we did the will of man, which is in lusts, but ow it is the will of God, which cannot be in lusts, it is different. ( all old is passed away.)

You ignore Jesus being a man. And if He didn't have any lust for bread then His temptation is a sham, a fake, a fraud.

The man that endures temptations is blessed, and the men who do not endure temptations, have lusts, and every man is tempted when drawn away of his lusts, and enticed, ( by the spirit of satan in them to draw them away from God) and satan was not in Christ, but had come to him, and then had to go away. ( but the Holy Sprit had come to Christ and remained on Him which descended from heaven.)

Adding to Scripture.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

You say it but neither understand it nor believe.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. James 1:14-15.

I see you posted a Scripture from Peter. Do you believe Peter spoke by the Holy Spirit?
How about James and Jude? Did they write under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Satan is everywhere in Scripture, as a proper noun, meaning a specific individual being. Demons are mentioned many times in the gospels. It is true biblical doctrine.

If "Satan" is everywhere why is the word used of humans and how does Jesus calling Peter "Satan" (the person) apply?
And if you take "Satan" as Lucifer then why not call him by his name Lucifer in Scripture? Why "Satan"? The reason is because the angels that sinned are locked up and there is no angel called Lucifer or "Satan" loose on the planet. Jesus says he was cast down to hell delivered in chains of darkness awaiting judgment when he was cast down to hell as Isaiah says.
The Scripture agrees with Scripture. It is men's failed understanding that is in error here.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Everybody in this thread, Jeremiah 1 is using his own verses, which he does not want explaining, either he will ignore what is shown to him by me just now, or will explain now, that an explanation of the verses he uses came to him.

Let's test that perception.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Is 14:15.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude 5–6.

In three places Scripture says Lucifer was "cast down to hell."
In two places It also says the angels that sinned are delivered in "chains of darkness."
It also says in two places that the angels that sinned are reserved (being kept) to await judgment.

Peter, James, and Jude are at least three apostles to the Jews and pillars in the early Church.
DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT THEY SAID about the angels that sinned being locked up?

Yea or nay?

 

[Randy]

I agree. But it can also be a spiritualization as well. It must be a reference to the decadence of these peoples' for we know 'our Lord' wasn't crucified there.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev. 11:8.

If you make a comment about this "so-great salvation" you need to post Scripture to back up your assertions. We cannot show others that God is not truly our Father in lies and half-truths.

Again, the word "devil" is an adjective. It's not a noun. You cannot make an adjective into a personal pronoun or a noun. It is grammatically impossible unless you want to bastardize the truth of the Holy Writ.

Yes. These are the cogitations of the Lord. The human aspect of Jesus is what was hungered. It was His flesh. And it was His human part that was being tested. God doesn't get hungry and doesn't eat. The hypostatic union of Jesus Christ is unique in human history so it/He cannot be seen as being different from humans, but He is. He is the God-man. Notice also the Holy Spirit uses the human name that was 'driven' into the desert to be tempted and not "the Lord," or "Christ" [title of Deity] in the narration. Also notice the Holy Spirit calls the human part of the Lord "devil" (adjective.)

Jese merely walked into town and ascended the stairs to the pinnacle.

As I said, the temptation comes from within as James tells us (whether you refuse to believe James) and the cogitation is that Jesus knew who He was. At the age of twelve He was in the Temple going about His Father's business. So, He knew. If He would have obey his human part that was being tested and threw Himself He would have as Scripture said been borne by the angels, failed the test, be saved, and die without a resurrection (failing God is sin).

Jesus knew He was destined to rule. That was one of the things God promised Him in exchange of fulfilling the Father's plan to become man to save His sinful creation: man.

Humans and the human nature are adversaries of God.
It's a shame you want to believe Lucifer is out of his prison and loose of the planet when God says in 2 Peter and in Jude unequivocally that the angels that sinned are locked up.
Do some original thinking and let go of all those commentaries and Gentile-mindset theology of the Jewish Scriptures. You're just regurgitating all the error you read.

You don't believe Jesus was lead into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil also called Satan as was testified to in the testimony given by the writer. I call that unbelief. If you refuse to believe the testimony given then nothing I can state will ever change your outlook in this topic. So knowing this I will end this discussion.

 

[Randy]

Unbelief began in the Garden and man has the corner market on unbelief and calling God a liar every moment of every day.
When you make a comment about God and this "so-great salvation" it's proper to sometimes post Scripture. But that is not enough. Provide the Jewish perspective on the Scripture because the Scripture is written by Jews to a Jewish audience, and it speaks of Jewish religion, concepts and ideas.

Yes, and here's the fall:

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Is 14:15.

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2 Peter 2:4.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude 6.

See that? Scripture agreeing with Scripture. But it's men's vain interpretations that are their undoing in understanding God's Word. You see, I THINK. I don't regurgitate other peoples' bible studies and commentaries. I actually spend 90% of my day thinking about Scripture trying to reason out this and that. I use only one linguist: James Strong, one Bible: The Authorized King James Version, and trust the Holy Spirit. And my knowledge and understanding are in accordance with my spiritual gifts.

Yes. Man is adversary to God.
But this adversary is someone that had been cast down to hell and locked up in chains of darkness. His time is short because he will be let loose a little while to deceive Gog and Magog for one final battle and then the end will come for him.
THIS is the judgment: The Lake of Fire.
The sting of sin. Unatoned sin.

I'm not talking about your salvation but you certainly reject all the clear testimony in regard to Satan and his angels.
Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You don't believe Jesus was lead into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil also called Satan as was testified to in the testimony given by the writer. I call that unbelief. If you refuse to believe the testimony given then nothing I can state will ever change your outlook in this topic. So knowing this I will end this discussion.

I believe Jesus was driven into the desert by the Holy Spirit to test His human nature to see what He as God and man would do before He would begin His official ministry as Rabbi.
You hold that Lucifer tempted Him, but Scripture says the angels that sinned are locked up. With this in mind another understanding of Jesus' temptation is necessary.
You don't believe James and Jude and Isaiah. Plain and simple and I am troubled you'd reject their revelation in order to continue to hold and believe that the "devil" which is an adjective is a noun in your mind and that despite what James said about temptation coming from within you continue to believe erroneously that His temptation was from without. You haven't considered the ramifications of what you believe and that means in regard to Jesus being our High Priest and the Scripture in Hebrew that He was tempted in every way as we are but without sin. If our temptation is from within and Jesus' was from without, then this creates a problem. There are not two ways of being tempted. If there were two ways they would be described in Scripture. But there isn't. There is only ONE way in which every human is tempted including Jesus and that is in accordance with the teaching of James 1:14.
It is no sin to be tempted. It is a sin to lust, but we don't, and I emphasize DON'T know what it means to have two natures like Jesus [human] Christ [God] as we only have one. So, I make accommodation for this truth about the Lord.
At least I am allowing Scripture and the Holy Spirit dictate what I am to believe. You and others on the other hand are just regurgitating that garbage about Lucifer that I USED TO BELIEVE in.
When a Scripture challenges my beliefs I am bound as a child of God and of truth to incorporate it into my belief-system and if I have to let go of a former belief I LET GO!
I study Hebrew and Greek. I don't take my doctrine from a translation I take it from the original language of the Scripture.
I accordance to my place in the body of Christ and my calling and my gifts I must follow what God is directing me even if it is not accepted by others. The whole history of the doctrinal understanding we have of Scripture today didn't just come in one day. Brethren were used of God to bring in each generation from glory to glory dependent on the amount of light of understanding He gives us. Doctrine is progressive. It is being built just as Jesus said it would. Many brethren in the past have been used of God to bring new revelation of His Word and many brethren that held a minority view at the time have been vindicated because their minority view that went against the grain of the Church is now a major doctrine upon which we see God according to Scripture and not in the vanity of our minds.
Until the Lord adds to my understanding on this subject I cannot in good conscience let what I believe go because the majority hold to something different. If 50 million people say a wrong thing, it is STILL a wrong thing.
See you on another post.
Do yourself a favor if you are true born of God...do some thinking and reasoning and search a subject out. Don't just regurgitate what you read in books and on the internet.
From your elder, jeremiah.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I'm not talking about your salvation but you certainly reject all the clear testimony in regard to Satan and his angels.
Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God.

And Peter and Jude say the angels that sinned are locked up.
What do you do when you have seemingly two opposing Scriptures against each other? Choose the one that fits your beliefs?
If you do that, you're in error. We are instructed as Christ followers to ask, seek, and knock. That's what distinguishes me from you.

 

[hawkman]

Satan didn't tempt Jesus. He and all the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

jeremiah1five who is the me in the above verse Matthew 4:9 ?

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe Jesus was driven into the desert by the Holy Spirit to test His human nature to see what He as God and man would do before He would begin His official ministry as Rabbi.
You hold that Lucifer tempted Him, but Scripture says the angels that sinned are locked up. With this in mind another understanding of Jesus' temptation is necessary.
You don't believe James and Jude and Isaiah. Plain and simple and I am troubled you'd reject their revelation in order to continue to hold and believe that the "devil" which is an adjective is a noun in your mind and that despite what James said about temptation coming from within you continue to believe erroneously that His temptation was from without. You haven't considered the ramifications of what you believe and that means in regard to Jesus being our High Priest and the Scripture in Hebrew that He was tempted in every way as we are but without sin. If our temptation is from within and Jesus' was from without, then this creates a problem. There are not two ways of being tempted. If there were two ways they would be described in Scripture. But there isn't. There is only ONE way in which every human is tempted including Jesus and that is in accordance with the teaching of James 1:14.
It is no sin to be tempted. It is a sin to lust, but we don't, and I emphasize DON'T know what it means to have two natures like Jesus [human] Christ [God] as we only have one. So, I make accommodation for this truth about the Lord.
At least I am allowing Scripture and the Holy Spirit dictate what I am to believe. You and others on the other hand are just regurgitating that garbage about Lucifer that I USED TO BELIEVE in.
When a Scripture challenges my beliefs I am bound as a child of God and of truth to incorporate it into my belief-system and if I have to let go of a former belief I LET GO!
I study Hebrew and Greek. I don't take my doctrine from a translation I take it from the original language of the Scripture.
I accordance to my place in the body of Christ and my calling and my gifts I must follow what God is directing me even if it is not accepted by others. The whole history of the doctrinal understanding we have of Scripture today didn't just come in one day. Brethren were used of God to bring in each generation from glory to glory dependent on the amount of light of understanding He gives us. Doctrine is progressive. It is being built just as Jesus said it would. Many brethren in the past have been used of God to bring new revelation of His Word and many brethren that held a minority view at the time have been vindicated because their minority view that went against the grain of the Church is now a major doctrine upon which we see God according to Scripture and not in the vanity of our minds.
Until the Lord adds to my understanding on this subject I cannot in good conscience let what I believe go because the majority hold to something different. If 50 million people say a wrong thing, it is STILL a wrong thing.
See you on another post.
Do yourself a favor if you are true born of God...do some thinking and reasoning and search a subject out. Don't just regurgitate what you read in books and on the internet.
From your elder, jeremiah.

Because you've changed your mind about something does not make every other person on a thread wrong.

Question:

Was Jesus born with the sin nature?