Only ONE TRUE GOD.

[Oscar3]

There are churches everywhere, but few are just like the ones in Acts. Most are like the reprimanded ones in Revelation. The “eklesia†is nothing but a group of people who are believers in what Christ taught who follow the leading of God and help each other with encouragement and share physical blessings when any have needs. Teachers are those who turn those who are deceived by some sin back to repentance. Bishops, deacons, elders are nothing but distribution servants who are wise enough to divide the material goods among the members so that all is fair and no one is left out. Preachers, I believe, are those who have a special message from God to admonish or encourage the rest of the group.

Most churches today in this country (the U.S.) are nothing but exclusive religion clubs where falsely fabricated doctrines are taught that please the members and encourage them to be comfortable in their sin and not to worry about that knocking on their hearts. Anyone who finds that God’s word contradicts what they teach is branded as a heretic and excluded from the mutual fellowship enjoyed by the compliant ones.

:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :-?

Unread Typo
After sitting actually reading your postings here and some of the other boards you have posted, I will only say that I will pray for you, because your soul is at stake.

 

[unred typo]

Unread Typo
After sitting actually reading your postings here and some of the other boards you have posted, I will only say that I will pray for you, because your soul is at stake.

Thank you, Oscar. I believe you sincerely mean well but you are still being deceived. I will pray for you to understand the truth and the real meaning of the gospel. Scorpia is right that we must not read the Bible without the Lord Jesus Christ as our teacher and guide. If we go to our creator God, and ask for bread will he give us a stone? If we ask a fish, will he give us serpent? She has nothing to gain by her preaching, and does not ask us to follow her but to follow Christ. Why is that wrong, or the teaching of a demon spirit? :-?

 

[scorpia]

Scorpia reminds me of the cult I was in before. She carries the same familliar spirits that I had percieved as normal. It was not until after I was saved that i realized it was evil spirits.

Can you please elaborate what a cult means to you and by whom did you learn it?

 

[Imagican]

Mr Mec]
With all due respect you have indeed said many times that Jesus was created. The biggest problem that I see you have is that you seem to believe that you are as smart as God.

You are under this illusion that God has revealed everything to us.

I am sure also do not believe God parted the red sea as well, right?

oscar,

I am NOT saying that Jesus WAS created. I have offered that there is MUCH evidence that indicates that this may VERY WELL be the 'truth', but I don't KNOW that Christ was created. As far as 'my' understanding, I 'believe' that it is 'highly probable that Christ was created.

Illusion? Perhaps. And NO, God has NOT revealed EVERYTHING to us. Just what we NEED to know. And that is not what He has revealed to EVERYONE, just those that He has chosen.

I believe that EVERY miracle of the Bible took place. I also believe that there are miracles taking place right now right before the very eyes of those that are capable of 'seeing'.

What I DO NOT accept are the many blunders of the churches and thier INSISTENCE that they KNOW EVERYTHING in detail. They have been and ARE STILL often WRONG. There is MUCH that has been MISINTERPRETED and PERPETUATED by the churches. Since MOST find 'religion' through the churches, MOST have accepted these misinterpretations.

The ONLY dispute that one could have with a 'created Christ' is a 'belief' that Christ IS God. When one simply accepts what has been offered through the Word, this is NOT a problem when it comes to discernment of scripture. Instead of having to 'manipulate' scripture to conform to one's preconceived beliefs, it is MUCH simpler and efficient to accept what has been offered and have faith that what is revealed IS the TRUTH.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Here is the truth:

Jesus created all things as He is God Almighty.

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. Mark 13:19

The first verse of the writings of Moses in Genesis says that God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

God created all that was created.

Who is this verse of Scripture speaking of?

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17

The answer is, Jesus Christ as we see in the following verses:

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Colossians 1:18-20

I will now replace the pronouns that point to the person of Jesus Christ with the proper name in the same Scripture verses.

16 For by JESUS CHRIST were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by JESUS CHRIST, and for JESUS CHRIST: 17 And JESUS CHRIST is before all things, and by JESUS CHRIST all things consist. 18 And JESUS CHRIST is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things JESUS CHRIST might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in JESUS CHRIST should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of JESUS CHRIST'S cross, by JESUS CHRIST to reconcile all things unto JESUS CHRIST; by JESUS CHRIST, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Colossians 1:18-20

Who created all things?

JESUS CHRIST.

What did the 24 elders in Heaven say about the one who created all things?

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:8-11

It is very plain that the Scriptures teach that Jesus is the Creator of all things, Jesus is Almighty God, Jesus sits on the throne that the 24 elders and four creatures worship, and it is Jesus's pleasure that all things were created.

Solo,

Have you EVER noticed that throughout the six days of creation, US is NOT used until the time of the SIXTH day and man was created? Significant. According to 'your' interpretation, obviously NOT. BUT, according to what is offered in scripture, the OVERWHELMING INDICATION is that scripture was written to us pertaining to us. EVERYTHING pertaining to Christ and God ARE NOT offered in The Word.

Many, throughout history, in order to PERFECT their understanding in their 'own' hearts, have 'filled in the gaps' with interpretation that may or MAY NOT be 'truth'.

I offer once again, did Christ create the angels in heaven? Did Christ create heaven itself? And I content that if you have an answer to these, then you 'made up' that answer, or were divinely inspired for NO WHERE in The Word are answers to questions such as these offered.

So, while scripture DOES offer that the 'things' which pertain to US, (humanity), WERE created by Christ, we do NOT KNOW that ALL things PERIOD were created by Christ.

Picking and choosing scripture without taking it ALL in context makes it possible for MANY different interpretations of The Word. I continually see those that have participated in this discussion do so. My suggestion: open up your hearts and accept what is offered by God and learn to trust in THIS rather than the meager offerings of those that would lead you astray if so allowed.

What I have to offer is NOTHING other than what God and His Son have offered. That simple. I offer NONE of the mystical, magical, mythological, three headed symbols that many seem so drawn to. There is ONLY ONE God. That has been revealed from THE BEGINNING. This has NOT CHANGED.

What has changed is a mixing of 'different' religions into ONE. In our present period it is called Christianity. Meaningless without 'true' understanding. Just another cultish religion of the world without a 'true' relationship with God through His Son.

We were warned that this would happen. And just a little tid bit of wisdom; Those that accept Christ WILL become enemies of this world. Funny, but it seems as though those 'Christians' that have 'bought into' this present form of 'Christianity' fit into this world RATHER NICELY. They are accepted with open arms by MOST of the world. You tell me, what's wrong with this picture? I can tell you, can you tell me?

So, Solo, you can certainly pick out a handful of 'lines of scripture' to 'show' that Christ IS God. But I have read the BOOK and have found no such proof of ANYTHING of the sort when taken 'as a whole'. Christ IS the Son of God, There is ONLY ONE GOD, His Father. This is the prevalent theme throughout The Word and this is what was/is offered by both God and His Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ.

From your understanding God can be MORE THAN ONE GOD. I do NOT accept this mythology. For when Christ returns to rule this earth, God will STILL be in heaven. That, from what YOU would have me accept, would make TWO Gods, I KNOW but ONE.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Some food for thought guys and gals.

Was Christ the 'third person of the 'trinity' UPON creation? Previous to the creation of man, were there three 'separate 'persons' in heaven? Has God ALWAYS been 'three persons' in ONE?

Now, for there to be a son, there MUST be a 'father' FIRST. Otherwise the terms have NO meaning whatsoever. The terms themselves offer the assumption that one existed BEFORE the other.

Did Christ create the dwelling place of God? Or the angels that dwell in heaven?

Now, read The Word. NO, not 'some' of the Word, but ALL of it. Then answer these questions above using NOTHING other than The Word itself. Accept this challenge and I can offer little more.

MEC

 

[Solo]

Alas and alak; You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

 

[Oscar3]

There will come a time when ''these horses'' (mec and mutz) will be beging to go to the watering hole. :wink:

 

[Oscar3]

Looking at situations and trully how many people have the hard heart of pharoa. it's easy to understand election and those are not a part of Gods elect, because God knew from eternity past who would choose him.

Its really a sad thing.

 

[Fnerb]

Looking at situations and trully how many people have the hard heart of pharoa. it's easy to understand election and those are not a part of Gods elect, because God knew from eternity past who would choose him.

Its really a sad thing.

Yes, God knowing who would reject him is definatly different than the ideal of fatalism. He may know whom will rejet him, but that doesn't mean that his saving grace was never offered to that person.

 

[Oscar3]

Yes, God knowing who would reject him is definatly different than the ideal of fatalism. He may know whom will rejet him, but that doesn't mean that his saving grace was never offered to that person.

Exactly

 

[Imagican]

You folks seem rather 'quick' at your attempts to 'persecute' God's children. Instead of the LOVE that you have been COMMANDED to offer others, you would instead choose condemnation for beliefs that do not agree with your own. Yet, truth be told, your beliefs are not even your own, but GIVEN you by 'other men'.

I have done ANYTHING but reject God in the last years of my life. I have WHOLLY accepted God AND His Son. I have simply accepted a 'different' understanding than what many have 'bought into'.

Look folks, it's really not that complicated. We will KNOW those that have accpeted Christ into their hearts by the 'fruit' that they produce. The SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT piece of this 'fruit' is LOVE. So, if we find that there are those that 'claim' to be 'Christians', yet are UNABLE to exhibit the LOVE of Christ in their treatment towards others, I would question, not only their 'lack of such', but their 'belief system' also. For there would HAVE to be something WRONG with a 'form' of Christianity that it's followers were UNABLE to exhibit the MOST important attribute of a 'Christian'.

You would have me and others believe that GOD died on the cross. Yet the Bible states that Christ OFFERED this gift, (sacrifice), to God. You would have me believe that I can pray to Christ AS God and it makes NO DIFFERENCE. You would insist that for me to be accepted by you that I WHOLLY accept 'your beliefs'. Sounds kinda 'Catholic' to me.

I accept Christ Whole-Heartedly. He IS my Savior. Through HIM, my sins are forgiven BY GOD. When God looks at me, he sees His Son, for I too am NOW an heir to Christ's Kingdom to come. And when Chirst IS my King, there will STILL be God, (His God and Father as well), in heaven.

So PLEASE don't fret over what has been revealed to me. I accept what has been freely given and offer NO argument. What I do not accept is that which many would insist that I MUST. And what this does is simply show that MOST are more comfortable following a 'group' rather than following that which matters most.

One more little tid-bit of information:

Are you aware that Satan has the ability to lead and guide us? That Satan has the ability to EMULATE God and has no greater wish than to be worshiped AS GOD? With these things in mind, beware of 'where' you allow others to lead you. Satan also has MANY MANY minions whose SOLE purpose is to bring others to him. And Satan's most potent tool is the ability to disguise himself AS God.

IF, there is ONLY one God, then to 'change' something, ANYTHING else into God is to create a 'false god'. And there is NO positive fruit that can come from such a 'tree' that worships a 'false god'. Fruit, no doubt. But fruit that will bruise and rot in time. But fruit from the 'heart of God', IMPOSSIBLE.

Christ warned that there would come a time that MANY would come to him in the last times and offer, "Look at all the wonderous things we've done in your name". His answer to these; " Go away from me for I do NOT even KNOW you''. WHO are these folks? Who do you reacon He will say this to?

MEC

 

[mutzrein]

There will come a time when ''these horses'' (mec and mutz) will be beging to go to the watering hole. :wink:

You don't have to worry about the watering hole for this old horse coz I know the source of the well that doesn't run dry. So I don't have to drink out of the stagnant pond of man's tradition.

And as Jesus said, He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Hallelujah! . . . Rivers! - not a trickle, not even a stream or a brook . . . but RIVERS!!

 

[Oscar3]

You folks seem rather 'quick' at your attempts to 'persecute' God's children.

To be a child of God, one must be born again first.


There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."

3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"

5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again. 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, "How can these things be?"

10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

By the way, Jesus is God, read the bible.

 

[mutzrein]

To be a child of God, one must be born again first.

And where does Jesus say to Nicodemus that the criteria for being born again is to believe that he is God?

 

[Solo]

And where does Jesus say to Nicodemus that the criteria for being born again is to believe that he is God?

One does not have to believe that Jesus is God in order to be born again, one only has to believe that God will redeem them by believeing on the name of Jesus Christ and His work on the cross. Once one is born again, the Holy Spirit teaches the believer that Jesus is God. Prior to the Holy Spirit indwelling a believer it is hit or miss what one believes, however, Jesus did inform Nicodemus that He was God by explaining that he had come down from heaven, that he was the Son of God (which spoke to the Jewish folks that he was equal to God Almighty), and He called Himself the light that has come into the world (the light that Jehovah God said that he was).

12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
John 3:12-13

18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:18-19

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. 20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. Isaiah 60:19-20

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:12

 

[Imagican]

Jesus IS The ONLY Begotten of God. God IS The Father of Christ. These two statements are without doubt or compromise. For this IS what we have been TOLD, by God AND by His Son. That Christ is 'a part' of God is without doubt as well. BUT, to worship Christ AS God is to create something that we have NOT been offered through The Word. There is ONLY one place that one could use to justify this and even this would have to be done WITHOUT consideration of 'THE WHOLE'. Thomas did call Christ his God. But, when we consider that this man doubted that the man before them was Christ until placing his finger in the hole left by a nail, how MUCH faith should we TRULY place in a statement that he made? Many called Christ 'the devil'. Should we place ANY creedence in such statements? Of course not. Any more than we should take the words of such a doubter as FACT. Thomas calling Christ 'his God' does NOT make Christ God. There were MANY statements made by Christ's deciples that are NOT what we should follow. Even PETER denied Christ three times the day after His arrest.

So, with these things in mind it becomes VERY SHAKY theology to base one's beliefs on the statements of men rather than God or Christ Himself.

MEC

 

[Solo]

Jesus IS The ONLY Begotten of God. God IS The Father of Christ. These two statements are without doubt or compromise. For this IS what we have been TOLD, by God AND by His Son. That Christ is 'a part' of God is without doubt as well. BUT, to worship Christ AS God is to create something that we have NOT been offered through The Word. There is ONLY one place that one could use to justify this and even this would have to be done WITHOUT consideration of 'THE WHOLE'. Thomas did call Christ his God. But, when we consider that this man doubted that the man before them was Christ until placing his finger in the hole left by a nail, how MUCH faith should we TRULY place in a statement that he made? Many called Christ 'the devil'. Should we place ANY creedence in such statements? Of course not. Any more than we should take the words of such a doubter as FACT. Thomas calling Christ 'his God' does NOT make Christ God. There were MANY statements made by Christ's deciples that are NOT what we should follow. Even PETER denied Christ three times the day after His arrest.

So, with these things in mind it becomes VERY SHAKY theology to base one's beliefs on the statements of men rather than God or Christ Himself.

MEC

Who are the 24 elders and four beasts worshiping in these verses of Scripture?

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:8-11

 

[Imagican]

From your perspective, I suppose you will say that they are worshiping Christ. My interpretation is that they are worshiping God. For we have MORE than one Lord, yet there is ONLY ONE GOD.

MEC

 

[Solo]

Who are the 24 elders and four beasts worshiping in these verses of Scripture?

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:8-11

From your perspective, I suppose you will say that they are worshiping Christ. My interpretation is that they are worshiping God. For we have MORE than one Lord, yet there is ONLY ONE GOD.

MEC

Why do the four beasts worship Almighty God and declare that "He which was, which is, and which is to come"?

There is one Jehovah God. God the Father is Jehovah God. God the Son is Jehovah God. God the Spirit is Jehovah God. There is one Lord of Lords, one King of Kings. Almighty God is the Alpha and Omega. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega. (Revelation 1, Revelation 4, Revelation 22)