Only ONE TRUE GOD.

[Imagican]

Hey.

Other than this 'Christ IS God' thing that 'trinity' teaches, is there ANYTHING that I have offered that is NOT the 'truth'? I am here to 'create NOTHING'. I am here to offer the 'TRUTH' as I know it. I am able to do NOTHIHG more.

I do NOT threaten or attempt to bribe or ANYTHING BUT offer the TRUTH as I KNOW IT. I expect NO ONE to follow ME. I have simply accepted what has been offered and make my best attempts to witness this. I had NO churches teach me what I KNOW. That was NOT NEEDED and NEVER HAS BEEN. For those that KNOW God His will is WRITTEN in their hearts and this has ALWAYS been. For the masses MAYBE NOT. But for those that have LOVED God, He has NEVER abandoned THEM.

Too many have learned to lean TOO much on 'other men' to lead them RATHER than The Father. Been happening for thousands of years. That IS EXACTLY how the religious order of Christ's time had been able to manipulate the populace into teachings that WERE THEIRS Rather than God's. The Jews following MEN rather than HIS WILL. NOTHING different than what we have today with the 'churches'.

So, why would 'locking down' this thread even be an issue. If there are any that wish NOT to be exposed to 'such drivel', (as many have indicated they feel about my posts), just ignore them.

But, and not a 'little but', but a BIG BUT, what if what I offer IS The TRUTH? All the MORE reason to stiffle it, eh? For there is LITTLE room for the TRUTH in this world. For this world is ONLY concerned with that which builds up 'self' and little for that which honors God in understanding.

MEC

 

[jgredline]

Mec
So you believe in Modalism. This is in essence what you just described.
That the Holy spirit is a manefesation of Jesus Christ although you used linked I believe as your word. Modalism also teaches that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are created although most people that hold to that false view deny it.

To me it still goes back to the original questions. You have not shown anything to address them.

First, the atonement is at stake. If Jesus is merely a created being, and not fully God, then it is hard to see how he, a creature, could bear the full wrath of God against all of our sins. Could any creature, no matter how great, really save us?

Second, justification by faith alone is threatened if we deny the full deity of the Son. (This is seen today in the teaching of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who do not believe in justification by faith alone.) If Jesus is not fully God, we would rightly doubt whether we can really trust him to save us completely. Could we really depend on any creature fully for our salvation?

Third, if Jesus is not infinite God, should we pray to him or worship him? Who but an infinite, omniscient God could hear and respond to all the prayers of all God’s people? And who but God himself is worthy of worship? Indeed, if Jesus is merely a creature, no matter how great, it would be idolatry to worship himâ€â€yet the New Testament commands us to do so (Phil. 2:9–11; Rev. 5:12–14).

Fourth, if someone teaches that Christ was a created being but nonetheless one who saved us, then this teaching wrongly begins to attribute credit for salvation to a creature and not to God himself. But this wrongfully exalts the creature rather than the Creator, something Scripture never allows us to do.

Fifth, the independence and personal nature of God are at stake: If there is no Trinity, then there were no interpersonal relationships within the being of God before creation, and, without personal relationships, it is difficult to see how God could be genuinely personal or be without the need for a creation to relate to.

Sixth, the unity of the universe is at stake: If there is not perfect plurality and perfect unity in God himself, then we have no basis for thinking there can be any ultimate unity among the diverse elements of the universe either. Clearly, in the doctrine of the Trinity, the heart of the Christian faith is at stake. ''

By the way. I have very much enjoyed this conversation with you.
Blessings,
javier

 

[jgredline]

Mec
Pretty much the only thing we disagree on is that I believe Jesus is God the second person in the God head. I also believe the Holy Spirit to be the third person of the God head. To believe the way I do would make you a Trinitarian as it goes hand in hand.

People who believe in modalism are NOT Trinitarians. A person can't be a Trinitarian with out believings that Jesus and the Holy Spirit ARE God.

Aside from this, I agree with MOST everything else you have said as far as this thread goes. Our disagreements come from you not believing that Jesus and now the Holy Spirit are God.

Now in the overall view of things if you and I were to go through the Bible together we would disagree with most of it, because the Bible is all about Jesus Christ and his DEITY..

blessings,
Javier

 

[Imagican]

Please explain who the person is that is recorded as being the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last by the witness, John in the following verses (vs 8, vs 11, & vs 17). Please give a direct, straight forward answer, so to keep the post in a reasonable length. Thanks.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:8-18

Solo,

What you ask is a 'loaded' question. I WILL answer it but want to make it perfectly clear that what you seek is argue with evidence which is NOT given.

Christ. That is the answer. BUT, what you have tried to do here is force an issue which CANNOT be forced and YOU KNOW IT. How decieving is that?

For there is MUCH MORE offered in Revelation that PLAINLY SHOWS the separate entities of Christ AND God. For when these words were spoken there is MUCH more offered that shows that YES, Christ WAS seen in this vision of John's, but SO WAS GOD. And these TWO were NOT 'the same'. Their appearance was different and that which surrounded Them was different as well.

When God offers that HE IS The Alpha and Omega, that does not offer that He ALONE IS thus. Christ AND God can CERTAINLY BE BOTH The Alpha and Omega WITHOUT being The SAME. For what God has willed IS what IS. And if He has willed that Christ TOO be The Alpha and Omega, who am I too 'read into' this ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT HAS BEEN OFFERED? If God SO willed it, I could be the Alpha and Omega.

MEC

 

[Solo]

Please explain who the person is that is recorded as being the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last by the witness, John in the following verses (vs 8, vs 11, & vs 17). Please give a direct, straight forward answer, so to keep the post in a reasonable length. Thanks.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:8-18

Solo,

What you ask is a 'loaded' question. I WILL answer it but want to make it perfectly clear that what you seek is argue with evidence which is NOT given.

Christ. That is the answer. BUT, what you have tried to do here is force an issue which CANNOT be forced and YOU KNOW IT. How decieving is that?

For there is MUCH MORE offered in Revelation that PLAINLY SHOWS the separate entities of Christ AND God. For when these words were spoken there is MUCH more offered that shows that YES, Christ WAS seen in this vision of John's, but SO WAS GOD. And these TWO were NOT 'the same'. Their appearance was different and that which surrounded Them was different as well.

When God offers that HE IS The Alpha and Omega, that does not offer that He ALONE IS thus. Christ AND God can CERTAINLY BE BOTH The Alpha and Omega WITHOUT being The SAME. For what God has willed IS what IS. And if He has willed that Christ TOO be The Alpha and Omega, who am I too 'read into' this ANYTHING OTHER THAN WHAT HAS BEEN OFFERED? If God SO willed it, I could be the Alpha and Omega.

MEC

So we are in agreement that the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, and the First and the Last.

In Revelation 1:8 Jesus Christ says "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty". Notice that he claims to be the Almighty.

In Revelation 1:17 Jesus Christ says "Fear not; I am the first and the last".

When we continue in Revelation, we read what John writes about the one who says that HE is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, and the First and the Last, and that person according to Revelation 21:7 is God. It seems that we have one God and two persons as the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:5-8

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Revelation 22:12-21

 

[mutzrein]

You want God to lock it? :o

: No! I don't WANT God to lock it. But if it is to be locked at any time (and you know the way these discussions go sometimes) I thought it might be a good idea to leave it up to Him :wink:

 

[mutzrein]

mec
The biggest problem that In my opinion you have is that you feel you need to know the mind of God. That you need to have a full understanding of things so that Faith is not required. This my friend is never going to happen.
No man has known or will ever know the mind of God. We will not even know the mind of God when we are in heaven.
.
.
.

Blessings and may you find the truth.
Javier

Truth? You guys really are amusing.

On the one hand you say Jesus is God and, "No man has known or will ever know the mind of God"

And then there is a passage Solo likes to use in 1 Corinthians 2 which says, "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ."

So how can a man claim to have the mind of Christ, if as you say, "No man has known or will ever know the mind of God."

So what is it then? Has God got two minds? :-?

 

[scorpia]

j,

Nice one, my friend. What you have offered here IS TRUTH. There is MUCH more to it than the example offered, but I'm sure that you are aware of that as well.

I don't believe that it is NEEDED that I 'see' Christ AS God. For I KNOW that Christ LIVES within me and through Him I KNOW God. This IS what He testified to and I simply accept it AS OFFERED. I DO NOT need inventions of men to lead me to The Father. The SIMPLICITY that IS Christ Jesus IS enough for me. I place MY trust in God and KNOW that I have been offered 'truth' through His Son. His Son who PLAINLY stated that the words that He has offered WERE NOT HIS OWN, but GIVEN HIIM by The Father. And I KNOW that The Father IS GOD.

I accept the Holy Spirit as a part of Christ AND a part of God. Created BY God FOR MAN in the absence of Christ. A 'link' of sorts. That which is able to offer us a 'link' between God and man. For we KNOW that the Holy Spirit has existed PREVIOUS to Christ's visit upon this Earth and that it continues to exist today. This SAME Spirit IS that which was able to bring our forefathers to 'the truth' as well as ourselves. It IS that which convicts us OF THE TRUTH and HAS since the prophets offered the 'truth' concerning the 'will of God' and 'the coming of Christ'.

MEC

Facing the reality of the existence of God in His own way is much better than just memorizing and conceptualizing what is only written about God thereby depriving the TRUTH to come to the life of the people themselves who keep on walking in their own way of searching the TRUTH about God.

 

[scorpia]

Truth? You guys really are amusing.

On the one hand you say Jesus is God and, "No man has known or will ever know the mind of God"

And then there is a passage Solo likes to use in 1 Corinthians 2 which says, "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ."

So how can a man claim to have the mind of Christ, if as you say, "No man has known or will ever know the mind of God."

So what is it then? Has God got two minds? :-?

Not all in the mind of God will be made known to men but only some important ones necessary for a man/men to attain salvation and eternal life and, of course, the right way of living a life of a true Christian believer. The Lord Himself will be the One to teach the true believers, not his fellow men nor the scriptures.

 

[mutzrein]

Not all in the mind of God will be made known to men but only some important ones necessary for a man/men to attain salvation and eternal life and, of course, the right way of living a life of a true Christian believer. The Lord Himself will be the One to teach the true believers, not his fellow men nor the scriptures.

I agree - Not all in the mind of God is known to man just as not all in the mind of God is known to Christ.

But, salvation is not attained by means of the mind (or intellect). It is a gift of God. Man doesn't seek after God to attain salvation because this can only lead to self righteousness. The righteousness that God requires is the righteousness imputed by God and this can only come by means of faith.

 

[scorpia]

Who is the Alpha and the Omega?

He Who has seen me has seen the father?

I mean I could go on and on. But what you offer is proof that Jesus is the Son of God which I agree with.

Jesus himself said that He is the '' I AM''

Now in reply to these:

Both God AND Christ are able to offer 'I AM'. For God IS the I Am that He offered to Moses. And, Christ IS the I Am that He offered to His disciples. You understand this to mean that by Christ offering such is an OPEN ADMISSION that HE IS God. I do NOT accept this offering or understanding. For He did NOT simply state that I am THE, I AM, but simply stated that BEFORE Abraham, I Am. A pure indication that He came FROM God.

The SAME goes for the Alpha and Omega. Christ IS the Beginning of The Church. He IS the Beginning of the 'NEW Covenant'. He IS the Beginning of the END of Death. So, you see, He IS the beginning of much and He IS also the END of that which we know on this planet. When it is 'time', Christ WILL return and defeat the world as we know it. And He CERTAINLY IS the representative of God and able to offer such in statements such as these.

But we KNOW that God CANNOT be seen by the eyes of man in his present state, (the flesh). So, the CLOSEST thing to 'seeing' God WAS being able to 'see' The Son of God. Just as Christ offers that the words that he spoke were FROM God, so too was His creation. And He also stated that the words that He offered WERE NOT HIS OWN, but GIVEN HIM OF THE FATHER. So, we see here an OBVIOUS admission from Christ Himself that HE IS NOT THE FATHER. And, with this in mind, we KNOW that the Father IS God. And once again, NOT the Catholic understanding of God The Father, but, God IS The Father. For there is ONLY ONE.

He who has 'seen' Christ HAS seen the REPRESENTATIVE OF The Father, sent by God to bring man back into His embrace. Christ and The Father ARE ONE in that they are BOTH in unison, in agreement, in understanding, in purpose towards man, in MANY THINGS they CERTAINLY ARE ONE. But, we also have that when a man leaves his family for a wife, these TWO BECOME ONE. Now, j, does this mean literally ONE, or ONE in the sense of LOVE? For THIS IS our 'perfect understanding' of which Paul offers. We CAN have a 'perfect understanding' of that which MATTERS MOST.

j, we kNOW that God IS love. And Christ IS His representative OF THIS LOVE. Offered to us to 'bring us BACK' to The Father THROUGH LOVE. As God commanded Abraham to sacrifice HIS SON in order to 'show his lOVE for God', is it EVEN CONCEIVABLE that He would offer ANY LESS to show His love for US? For God to 'take on' flesh and die means NOTHING compared to 'offering HIS SON' in OUR PLACE. His ONLY Begotten. That which was an ACTUAL PART of Himself. NO, not HIMSELF in entirety. For Christ's obedience was NOT to Himself, but to His Father, God. And this was ONLY possible through LOVE.

So, no matter how much that is able to be offered in defense of the man-made doctrine of 'trinity', it is NOTHING other than THAT. What IS doctrine of God is that He sent HIS SON to die for OUR SINS so that we can be reconciled back into his OPEN ARMS. Anything OTHER than this is NOT what has been offered through HIS WORD.

Is it very hard to believe and understand that the "GREAT I AM" who spoke to Moses was the same "GREAT I AM" who inhabited/dwelt inside/lived inside the physical body born of Mary. What was born of Mary was a child with physical body like ours, flesh, blood, and bone, but the spirit being who was inside that same body then was the "Great I AM" whose name ever since from the start is JESUS, MIGHTY GOD, WISE COUNSELLOR, EMMANUEL, PRINCE OF PEACE, EVERLASTING FATHER. The "Great I Am" is only one and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same as the nicknames of the "Great I Am" or the Almighty Lord God of all.

 

[scorpia]

......... not all in the mind of God is known to Christ.

How can this be when Jesus Christ himself is the Almighty Lord God, the everlasting Father, the Great I Am, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the only Judge on the judgment day, the only rewarder of eternal life, etc.? This is the most important fact about God that people should know in their life for them not to be deceived and this will only come to reality in their life by calling on and coming to directly to the Lord God Jesus Christ.

Man doesn't seek after God to attain salvation because this can only lead to self righteousness.

If man will not seek God himself and just be contented in searching the TRUTH in the scriptures, how will he be able to attain salvation and eternal life when the scriptures doesn't have same in itself but only to the Lord God Jesus Christ? Faith in God will only come when God himself is already the one teaching that man, that is by hearing and hearing the words that cometh our from the mouth of the Lord God. And, also, the Lord God is the One who will say to that man that He, the Lord, is granting salvation and eternal life to that man and that he, the man, should maintain and keep, througout his life, that gift from God so that it will not be taken away from him.

[quote:efa1d] The righteousness that God requires is the righteousness imputed by God and this can only come by means of faith.

[/quote:efa1d]
The right faith in God is the one which God himself teaches to His believers and it will not be made known to anyone who only keeps on searching the TRUTH through the scriptures.

 

[mutzrein]

......... not all in the mind of God is known to Christ.

How can this be when Jesus Christ himself is the Almighty Lord God, the everlasting Father, the Great I Am, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the only Judge on the judgment day, the only rewarder of eternal life, etc.? This is the most important fact about God that people should know in their life for them not to be deceived and this will only come to reality in their life by calling on and coming to directly to the Lord God Jesus Christ.

This is the fallacy of this man-made doctrine scorpia. Scripture plainly tells us that Jesus does not know when He will return, but his Father does.

Man doesn't seek after God to attain salvation because this can only lead to self righteousness.

If man will not seek God himself and just be contented in searching the TRUTH in the scriptures, how will he be able to attain salvation and eternal life when the scriptures doesn't have same in itself but only to the Lord God Jesus Christ? Faith in God will only come when God himself is already the one teaching that man, that is by hearing and hearing the words that cometh our from the mouth of the Lord God. And, also, the Lord God is the One who will say to that man that He, the Lord, is granting salvation and eternal life to that man and that he, the man, should maintain and keep, througout his life, that gift from God so that it will not be taken away from him.

Man is born of the Spirit of God. This is not something that man chooses. Life is imparted to those to whom God chooses – and without human decision. And the life that God gives will never be taken away.

The righteousness that God requires is the righteousness imputed by God and this can only come by means of faith.

The right faith in God is the one which God himself teaches to His believers and it will not be made known to anyone who only keeps on searching the TRUTH through the scriptures.

I agree that faith does not come from searching the scriptures. Faith is not taught or exercised by mental assent. It is a gift.

 

[Imagican]

So, now is Chirst not ONLY God Himself, but, from this scripture offered, He IS ALSO THE FATHER? Come on folks, for one to make such a claim is to call Christ a 'liar'. For Christ PLAINLY offered that He and The Father WERE NOT THE SAME. For God to call Christ His Son and for Christ to offer that God IS His Father does NOT allow Christ to BE The Father.

Doesn't it become obvious, when we see how twisted this 'trinity' is able to become, that this doctrine is UNABLE to be 'the TRUTH'? So Many, with SO MANY differnt understandings of Christ AS God. Ice cubes, mathematical equations, eggs, the human body, etc, etc...........All used in an 'attempt' to explain that which CAN'T BE EXPLAINED in a way that one can UNDERSTAND IT. Yet we were told by CHRIST HIMSELF that one MUST accept Him as would a 'little child'. That we are to abide in the SIMPLICITY that IS Chirst Jesus. There is NOTHING 'simple' about a doctrine that NO ONE understands.

Yet HERE is 'simplicity'; that God, (The Father), would SEND HIS SON to die for US while we were YET ENEMIES. That God was willing to offer up HIS SON to die for OUR SINS, while He was yet BLAMELESS. THIS, folks, IS simplicity. Twisting and manipulating THIS into ANYTHING other than what IT IS, is NOT what God would have us do.

We are to follow HIS WILL NOT OUR OWN. And 'trinity' is NOTHING other than man-made theology created by those that woujld worship Christ AS GOD. Ignoring what both God and Christ offered and choosing instead to follow THEIR OWN will.

There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, and this God, The Father, created ONLY ONE SON. There IS ONLY ONE BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER. ANd this Son plainly stated to US that what He came to offer was NOT HIS OWN, but GIVEN Him OF THE FATHER. This can be NO PLAINER. NO MORE CLEARER. Yes they ARE ONE. But this does NOT STATE that 'being one' means THE SAME. When a man takes a wife, these two become ONE. Are they THEN 'the same'? Of course NOT. ONLY IN LOVE.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

The important issue so far as God's will is that we DON'T NEED to understand the 'mind' of God. But we have been TOLD that we ARE able to come to a PERFECT UNDERSTANDING of what God would have us KNOW. And this does NOT concern HIS MIND. What this is about is HIS LOVE. And THAT LOVE IS able to be UNDERSTOOD.

MEC

 

[dancing queen]

By the way, have not have time to read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been covered or I am missing the point

How does this fit?

John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And that in Hebrews God "the Father" calls Jesus - God

 

[Imagican]

By the way, have not have time to read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been covered or I am missing the point

How does this fit?

John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And that in Hebrews God "the Father" calls Jesus - God

Actually, there HAS been a very extensive discussion of this VERY issue on this thread.

If you will go back to the first two or three pages of this thread you will find what you seek.

But briefly if you don't have the time or desire to read the thread;

In the original Greek that this was taken from, there WERE NO capital letters. Go back and read this chapter of John WITHOUT the capital W and see what you come up with THEN.

MEC

 

[Solo]

By the way, have not have time to read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been covered or I am missing the point

How does this fit?

John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And that in Hebrews God "the Father" calls Jesus - God

Imagican and Mutzrein deny the deity of Jesus Christ in that they do not believe that Jesus is God. Imagican has been given many, many scriptures that show that Jesus is the Son of God while on this earth, and that he is God prior to and after the incarnation. If the scripture goes against their beliefs, they conjur up a way out or ignore the scripture. A simple "hide your head in the sand and it will go away" technique.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. Revelation 19:11-13

 

[jgredline]

:-D

 

[jgredline]

Truth? You guys really are amusing.

On the one hand you say Jesus is God and, "No man has known or will ever know the mind of God"

And then there is a passage Solo likes to use in 1 Corinthians 2 which says, "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment: "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ."

So how can a man claim to have the mind of Christ, if as you say, "No man has known or will ever know the mind of God."

So what is it then? Has God got two minds? :-?

Wow
Lots of Action overnight on the thread.
Mutz. I will answer you question quickly and briefly. If you need more exposition, I will gladly provide that for you.
What I mean and its IMO, is that no man can know and understand the ''mind'' of God. Do we know how many stars are in the sky? Where does the universe end? Where did God come from? How can there be one God, yet three distinct persons in the God Head.
This was Satans downfall remember.

What the Scripture Solo quoted and what it means and says is something you will not understand. It means simply this. That what God has revealed to us (Believers in Jesus/GOD) in his scriptures, his Holy Spirit will give us understanding. So u see it is two different things. I apologize for not being more clear..

Mutz. I have also noticed and sense allot of anger in you writings. Perhaps the Holy Spirit is calling you and your ignoring his voice..


Dancing Queen
Do not start on the second or third thread as you will miss the context of this debate. Start from the beginning.

Blessings,
JG