Only ONE TRUE GOD.

[jgredline]

Actually, there HAS been a very extensive discussion of this VERY issue on this thread.

If you will go back to the first two or three pages of this thread you will find what you seek.

But briefly if you don't have the time or desire to read the thread;

In the original Greek that this was taken from, there WERE NO capital letters. Go back and read this chapter of John WITHOUT the capital W and see what you come up with THEN.

MEC

Mec and Dancing Queen
I have already adressed this earlier in the debate. True there is no definate article in John 1:1 but there is in the following verses. Mec you sneaky fellow you. You never addressed that John 1:1 question when I brought it up :wink:

 

[mutzrein]

By the way, have not have time to read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been covered or I am missing the point

How does this fit?

John 1
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And that in Hebrews God "the Father" calls Jesus - God

Yes there has been debate on these two passages, at least in other threads because I have posted in them. If they are not answered here let me know and I will repost what I have said.

 

[mutzrein]

Wow
Lots of Action overnight on the thread.
Mutz. I will answer you question quickly and briefly. If you need more exposition, I will gladly provide that for you.
What I mean and its IMO, is that no man can know and understand the ''mind'' of God. Do we know how many stars are in the sky? Where does the universe end? Where did God come from? How can there be one God, yet three distinct persons in the God Head.
This was Satans downfall remember.

What the Scripture Solo quoted and what it means and says is something you will not understand. It means simply this. That what God has revealed to us (Believers in Jesus/GOD) in his scriptures, his Holy Spirit will give us understanding. So u see it is two different things. I apologize for not being more clear..

Mutz. I have also noticed and sense allot of anger in you writings. Perhaps the Holy Spirit is calling you and your ignoring his voice.

Blessings,
JG

JG - If you have picked up anything in my writings, it is this. There is a righteousness that comes from God. In fact God is righteousness and any righteousness that we try to ascribe to ourselves by virtue of our intellect or human decision we make is no righteousness at all.

You prescribe to a doctrine which has been created by man in order that he be able to achieve a righteousness that is not of faith. So, if you go through a process of asking Jesus to forgive you for your sin, to come into your heart, while saying you believe that Jesus is God, you believe you are a born-again Christian.

Now when I was born again, I didn’t go through this process. I was born again and I knew it. There was blue sky, green grass, laughter, tears of joy, a tongue that I did not understand, peace and tranquillity of such depth I had never known before. My face beamed (and people talked about it) my heart was overcome with incredible love for God, his Christ and my neighbour. This was not something I conjured up. It was real . . . and it is still as real today as it was then.

But then I was channelled into a ‘church’ and it was the church that told me that I had to believe in the Trinity and accept that Jesus was God. Now as a young Christian I ‘thought’ that these people knew what they were talking about. They were after all more mature (supposedly) in their walk with God and so I accepted what they said – and as a matter of fact I promoted it with vigour.

Then occurred an incident that caused me to question how these ‘christians’ could actually do something that was totally against the love of God that dwelled within my heart. On that particular day, God birthed within me what I describe as a ‘passion for truth’ and God spoke to me through a young girl who said, “Ed you are not to follow man but follow God.†And this has been my goal ever since.

I ‘learned’ the trinity from man. I was taught by man who used scripture to distort the gospel of my Lord & Saviour, Jesus Christ. So while I once accepted this doctrine, I now cannot. Why?

First of all, it is not true and it is not within me to lie to the Spirit of God that dwells within me by saying it is. Now I came to this conclusion long ago without even having an understanding of the relationship between Jesus and his Father. Now that I have, I understand scripture that used to perplex me – the same scripture that was used to promote the doctrine.
Secondly, it is a doctrine which has its foundation in self righteousness. It is not based on faith and as scripture tells us, that which is not of faith is sin.

So perhaps what you have sensed in my writings is something that is also found in some of Paul’s letters. How do you say, “Who has bewitched you?†without feeling anger towards the one who has led those who have been born of the Spirit, astray?

Do you think the Galatians knew they were being led astray? No of course not. They were hoodwinked. And it is the same today.

 

[Georges]

Do you think the Galatians knew they were being led astray? No of course not. They were hoodwinked. And it is the same today.

Who hoodwinked the Galations? Was it the edit shimmy sham?

 

[Oscar3]

Mutz, Mec and Georges
You guys are in denial. The most difficlut thing for a drug addict is to admit they are a drug addick. The same for the alcoholic and the same for the cults and false teachers. If you want to go to heaven you best repent of your selfmade doctrines of heresy and accept Jesus for who his is, GOD.

 

[mutzrein]

Mutz, Mec and Georges
You guys are in denial. The most difficlut thing for a drug addict is to admit they are a drug addick. The same for the alcoholic and the same for the cults and false teachers. If you want to go to heaven you best repent of your selfmade doctrines of heresy and accept Jesus for who his is, GOD.

Jesus is the Word OF God. Jesus is The Son OF God. Jesus is the lamb OF God.

I do not deny what scripture says. I deny the doctrines of those who twist the scripture to suit their doctrine.

And if I'm hooked on anything it is this. Jesus is my Redeemer. I am an heir of God, a co-heir with Christ of the kingdom of his God. Oh - and yes I'm hooked on the Truth. Jesus IS the Truth.

 

[Imagican]

Mec and Dancing Queen
I have already adressed this earlier in the debate. True there is no definate article in John 1:1 but there is in the following verses. Mec you sneaky fellow you. You never addressed that John 1:1 question when I brought it up :wink:

j,

Perhaps you missed these:

HERE is your answer guys and gals: 'Trins' offer that the The Word IS God and since the Word was MADE FLESH that the entity of Jesus Christ MUST be God. Yet Christ states without dispute THAT The words that He offered WERE NOT HIS OWN. Herein lies the SIMPICITY that IS the ANSWER. And the answer IS; this IDEA that Christ IS God is MISINTERPRETATION offered by a 'Godless' people that INSISTED on doing it THEIR WAY. Once they 'decided' to 'make' Jesus God, they THEN had to 'twist' the Word into 'something' OTHER THAN what it PLAINLY STATES.

As I have suggested in the past on numerous posts. Take away the CAPITAL W. Read it again. For when this was written there WERE NO CAPITAL LETTERS. So, read it 'AS IT WAS MEANT TO BE WRITTEN and one quickly sees that the Word IS nothing OTHER THAN THE WORD OF GOD. NO, NOT CHRIST. For AFTER we read of the WORD OF GOD it is ONLY THEN that the WORD BECAME FLESH. The Word refered to is nothing other than the word of God. Capitalized by those that 'wished' to 'turn Christ INTO GOD'. Those that wished to carve statues of Christ and worship THEM AS God.

And ONCE the Word became it DID become a 'person' in a sense. But MUCH more important than using The Word as 'a name' is understanding that The Word is more of a 'concept', (what has been offered us of God's understanding), than simply the 'name of a person'. For we have been receiving the Word through the prophets for thousands of years BEFORE Christ was revealed.

Now, as I have offered BEFORE, there WERE NO capital letters in the original language. Take them away here and what do we read? The WORD IS The Word of God. So, There WAS the Word IN THE BEGINNING for we KNOW that God SPOKE existence into being. What did HE speak? The Word of God. And ALSO, your assertion here that 'All things were made by him' is that the 'him' IS The Word or Christ. Pure speculation once again. For what I read is that it is 'as likely' that this sentence refers NOT to The Word, but to God Himself.

These are direct quotes that I have offered throughout this thread. If these do not address the question that you asked please remind me of exactly what the question was and I will do my best to answer.

Nothing 'tricky' here. I am a 'simple man' and often my mind will only follow one direction at a time. So, if I am not able to offer precisely what is asked of me it is not an attempt at 'trickery', but more likely my limited ability. See if these do not address the issue and if not please re-direct me in the proper direction of you inquiry.

MEC

 

[Solo]

13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Luke 1:13-17

The angel said to Zacharias that Elisabeth would bare a son. This son, John the Baptist, would turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. Notice that the angel states that John the Baptist would go before him, the Lord their God, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Jesus is the Lord whom John the Baptist would go before him, and according to this scripture, the Lord is God. Also John would go before him to prepare the way for the Lord as Isaiah 40:3 prophesied.

The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Isaiah 40:3

The word LORD in this verse of scripture is JEHOVAH. Notice also that the one crying in the wilderness is preparing the way of JEHOVAH, making straight in the desert a highway for GOD.

4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Luke 3:4

23 He <John the Baptist>said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. John 1:23

1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Matthew 3:1-3

2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Mark 1:2-3

It is quite clear that the word of God reveals that Jesus Christ is the Lord God. Remember what Jesus told Thomas when Thomas believed:

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28-29

 

[Imagican]

Solo,

ABSOLUTELY. And as stated OVER and OVER again, Christ came BY the WILL OF GOD. As stated by Christ HIMSELF, the words that He offered WERE NOT HIS OWN but GIVEN HIM BY THE FATHER. So John was INDEED making a people prepared to accept that which would soon be offered BY GOD, through His Son.

As offered, 'forgive them Father for they know not what they do'. The Father IS God, God IS The Father. Jesus Christ IS The Son of God, The Son of God IS Jesus Christ. It's REALLY that simple. No complexity here. Through God, Mary became pregnant and gave birth to GOD'S SON. Mary is NOT the mother of God. That's UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE. For Christ WAS FLESH as well as Spirit. And, as ONE man brought sin into this world, by one man is the forgiveness for sin accomplished.

Was Christ JUST a man? NO WAY. He was/IS The Only Begotten of God. Christ openly states that God is GREATER than He. Christ states that not HIS will be done but that of The Father, (God). How can it be so difficult to understand. Christ was/IS MOST CERTAINLY 'a part' of God. But MUCH of what He offered was NOT from HIM, but FROM THE FATHER. To deny this is to deny scripture that plainly states such. If they were simply two parts of this 'three part God' that you insist upon, they would be equal and the 'same' in knowledge and understanding. Yet we KNOW that they ARE NOT. For Christ offers over and over again that His power is FROM God, NOT of His OWN. That means that what Christ was/IS, so far as example and power, was GIVEN HIM. That concept in itself PROVES that Christ was NOT God Himself but EXACTLY WHO He offered US He IS; The Son of God, The Son of man, the Lamb of God, (and note that this does not say 'the lamb God, or God the Lamb), Prince of Peace, etc..............

Look, Christ was NOT a 'slickster'. He did NOT come to decieve ANYONE, but to offer THE TRUTH. Now, from a 'trinitarian' perspective Christ was INDEED a 'slickster'. Offering vague inuendo instead of outright words of TRUTH. When we eliminate this 'inuendo' and simply accept His words OUTRIGHT, we PLAINLY see that what He offered was NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

Now, with this in mind, WHY WOULD CHRIST NOT OUTRIGHT AND OPENLY STATE THAT HE WAS GOD? But we DO have WHO He stated that He was/IS. Stated PLAINLY for all to read.

For you SEE Solo, I need make NOTHING 'FIT' my understanding. I ahve simply accepted what has been offered. Yet those that insist upon 'trinity' MUST make MUCH fit that DOESN'T without actually ALTERING scripture. I have altered NOTHING that is stated.

And as has been offered by those that state that 'trinity' comes from the WHOLE of scripture. I contest that. For when one accepts and begins to understand the WHOLE of scripture they MUST accept ALL that is offered. And if ONE THING IS PLAINLY STATED, that means that something else that may 'indicate' different is SIMPLY MISUNDERSTOOD. For God does NOT LIE. That means if Christ stated that HE IS THE SON OF GOD, that's EXACTLY WHO HE IS. No if, and, or buts. Christ NEVER stated that HE WAS GOD. And it is ONLY through a WISH to see Christ AS God that His words are able to be altered to indicate such. Yet it CANNOT be BOTH WAYS. He either IS The Son of God or He IS NOT the Son of God, but God Himself. That IS NO complexity to Christ. Such is stated PLAINLY. So, a complex Christ is NOT the Christ that offered us the TRUTH through the Word of God.

MEC

 

[Solo]

6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous F248 man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:6-9

Only by believing the word of God and having the Holy Spirit indwell us can we know the spiritual things of God as did Thomas when he believed. After he believed he knew that Jesus was God.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28-29

Those that have not believed, do not know Jesus as LORD GOD and SAVIOUR. Those that have not been born again do not have the Holy Spirit, and cannot know the spiritual things of God.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[Oscar3]

Solo
Thank you for the great bible study.

 

[Solo]

Solo
Thank you for the great bible study.

You are most welcome, Oscar3. It takes a transforming of ones mind whenever one comes to believe in the process of sanctification, and until one comes to obey the Holy Spirit, one cannot be transformed by the renewing of the mind. Only by knowing the word of God can one know God in the fullest fellowship, and only by obeying the word of God can one be protected from the false teachings and every wind of doctrine that flies around us.

I've been studying the word of God for 23 years this month, and I am still learning.

God bless you and yours,
Michael

 

[Oscar3]

You are most welcome, Oscar3. It takes a transforming of ones mind whenever one comes to believe in the process of sanctification, and until one comes to obey the Holy Spirit, one cannot be transformed by the renewing of the mind. Only by knowing the word of God can one know God in the fullest fellowship, and only by obeying the word of God can one be protected from the false teachings and every wind of doctrine that flies around us.

I've been studying the word of God for 23 years this month, and I am still learning.

God bless you and yours,
Michael

Solo
Yes, you and jg along with vic were responsible in helping me straighten out my theology. Ever since that day, I have a great understanding of the scriptures. Like some of these people I never gave it a thought that Jesus is God. Once I came to understand this it changed me forever. I guess this is why some people here get me mad. They are trying to lead people down a road of destruction. I am not smart enough yet to debate them, but will be soon enough and then I will be able to jion you in battle.

 

[Solo]

Solo
Yes, you and jg along with vic were responsible in helping me straighten out my theology. Ever since that day, I have a great understanding of the scriptures. Like some of these people I never gave it a thought that Jesus is God. Once I came to understand this it changed me forever. I guess this is why some people here get me mad. They are trying to lead people down a road of destruction. I am not smart enough yet to debate them, but will be soon enough and then I will be able to jion you in battle.

You already have joined the battle between truth and lies. Continue to pray for your brothers and sisters in Christ, those that are not yet saved, and also pray for your enemies. Pray for God to give you wisdom and understanding liberally so that you can help those in need of truth as you go into the world. Praise God that you are who you are in Christ Jesus.
Study to show yourself approved, and keep up the good work.
God bless you and yours,
Michael

 

[scorpia]

........ not all in the mind of God is known to Christ.

How can this be when Jesus Christ himself is the Almighty Lord God, the everlasting Father, the Great I Am, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the only Judge on the judgment day, the only rewarder of eternal life, etc.? This is the most important fact about God that people should know in their life for them not to be deceived and this will only come to reality in their life by calling on and coming to directly to the Lord God Jesus Christ.

This is the fallacy of this man-made doctrine scorpia. Scripture plainly tells us that Jesus does not know when He will return, but his Father does.

The true God, the real and alive ONe, the One God who exists in all ages, the Almighty Lord God who is just besides you right at this very moment in time, the Lord God whose name is Jesus, He who is still speaking with people today, this very same God who spoke to Moses, Elijah, the prophets, etc., this is the true and real Almighty God whom you are referring and speaking to as the Father, He is the God who is over and above the bible and the words of the bible. Call on and come to this only One God of all and study and learn from HIm instead of continuously banking on the Scriptures, the Scriptures are not the true and real God of all Ages, Jesus Christ is the One. Jesus and the Father is only one and the same in reality (real eternity) but not in the Scriptures. Real Eternity of God will prevail but the Scriptures and the bible will definitely and totally perish come judgment day whose only Judge is none other than Jesus Christ himself who knows all things including the time and date of His return to earth, why believe the Scriptures without asking God first? If you believe God is the real owner of the wordings of the bible, then why not ask God first for the TRUTH? Do you not believe that the Lord God Jesus Christ is accessible to you anytime of the day just as Jesus was also accessible to Paul then?

 

[scorpia]

Man doesn't seek after God to attain salvation because this can only lead to self righteousness.

If man will not seek God himself and just be contented in searching the TRUTH in the scriptures, how will he be able to attain salvation and eternal life when the scriptures doesn't have same in itself but only to the Lord God Jesus Christ? Faith in God will only come when God himself is already the one teaching that man, that is by hearing and hearing the words that cometh our from the mouth of the Lord God. And, also, the Lord God is the One who will say to that man that He, the Lord, is granting salvation and eternal life to that man and that he, the man, should maintain and keep, througout his life, that gift from God so that it will not be taken away from him.

Man is born of the Spirit of God. This is not something that man chooses. Life is imparted to those to whom God chooses – and without human decision. And the life that God gives will never be taken away.

Our life and spirit emanates from God but salvation and eternal life is only rewarded by God to those who truly seek Him true to their heart and true to their soul. The Holy Spirit is only being sent by God to those who really put all their trust and confidence in the Lord. God will not reward salvation and eternal life to anyone doing just nothing in his entire life.

 

[scorpia]

The righteousness that God requires is the righteousness imputed by God and this can only come by means of faith.

The right faith in God is the one which God himself teaches to His believers and it will not be made known to anyone who only keeps on searching the TRUTH through the scriptures.

I agree that faith does not come from searching the scriptures. Faith is not taught or exercised by mental assent. It is a gift.

Gift from God which only shows that it is God himself who we do really need to call on and come to for us people to receive this said gift. Without calling on and coming to God directly, we cannot receive this most precious gift of all.

 

[scorpia]

So, now is Chirst not ONLY God Himself, but, from this scripture offered, He IS ALSO THE FATHER? Come on folks, for one to make such a claim is to call Christ a 'liar'. For Christ PLAINLY offered that He and The Father WERE NOT THE SAME. For God to call Christ His Son and for Christ to offer that God IS His Father does NOT allow Christ to BE The Father.

Why put all your attention to what is only written than to to the One who caused them to be written? Isn't it that the One who caused them be written has have much to say for their meaning/s instead of you, me, or them? Put God over and above these wriiten words, they are not God in the first place anyway nor did God allows you to interpret them via your own analysis and understanding, didn't God?

 

[Imagican]

Why put all your attention to what is only written than to to the One who caused them to be written? Isn't it that the One who caused them be written has have much to say for their meaning/s instead of you, me, or them? Put God over and above these wriiten words, they are not God in the first place anyway nor did God allows you to interpret them via your own analysis and understanding, didn't God?

scorpia,

You choose to ignore that which we have been 'given' BY God, through His Word? We are TOLD to test things acording to 'scripture' are we NOT? So, at one point, we MUST decide whether or NOT we choose to accept scripture AS The Word of God. I, for one, DO choose to accept The Word and THAT WAS/IS the beginning of what I have been offered. The BEGINNING of understanding.

Yes, God is capable of revealing WHATEVER He chooses to WHOMEVER He chooses and this is undeniable. But there IS 'truth' in scripture and THIS is without doubt as well.

MEC

 

[Oscar3]

Now this is funny :-D two false teachers in scorpia and imajic debating about biblical things :-D