Only ONE TRUE GOD.

[cyberjosh]

If you mean did I audibly hear the voice of God speak those words to me? No.

But that is not the only way God reveals truth to man.

Something else interesting that I've experienced is that God can talk to you by just impressing an understanding of what he wants to say directly into your mind, with no audible words, or medium. Once I prayed about what I should give this girl that I was witnessing to, and the second I opened my eyes I knew that God wanted me to take one of my Bible's off the shelf and give it to her. It was an instant understanding suddenly given to me by God.

It's kind of cool.

 

[Solo]

Something else interesting that I've experienced is that God can talk to you by just impressing an understanding of what he wants to say directly into your mind, with no audible words, or medium. Once I prayed about what I should give this girl that I was witnessing to, and the second I opened my eyes I knew that God wanted me to take one of my Bible's off the shelf and give it to her. It was an instant understanding suddenly given to me by God.

It's kind of cool.

The devil speaks to you in your own voice inside of the ole head, but God speaks to your heart in his own still small voice.

 

[mutzrein]

Something else interesting that I've experienced is that God can talk to you by just impressing an understanding of what he wants to say directly into your mind, with no audible words, or medium. Once I prayed about what I should give this girl that I was witnessing to, and the second I opened my eyes I knew that God wanted me to take one of my Bible's off the shelf and give it to her. It was an instant understanding suddenly given to me by God.

It's kind of cool.

Yes - you are right. Glory to God!

 

[mutzrein]

Pray for wisdom and understanding. If you are born again, God will give it to you liberally, and you will understand His truths. Until then you are in trouble, pardner.

You notice how Solo has changed over time MEC? :wink:
At one time there was absolutely no way you and I were born again. :-? Then it seems the possibility started to creep in :fadein:
and NOW, he seems to be acknowledging that it may only be understanding that you lack.

And at one time he plainly said he couldn't have fellowship with us. Now he is calling you pardner. :D

What gives bro? I wonder if the Mods told him to tone his posts down. How hard it is to climb down off such a lofty tower.

 

[Solo]

You notice how Solo has changed over time MEC? :wink:
At one time there was absolutely no way you and I were born again. :-? Then it seems the possibility started to creep in :fadein:
and NOW, he seems to be acknowledging that it may only be understanding that you lack.

And at one time he plainly said he couldn't have fellowship with us. Now he is calling you pardner. :D

What gives bro? I wonder if the Mods told him to tone his posts down. How hard it is to climb down off such a lofty tower.

You take a conditional statement that I make, weave it into a comment to fit your position, and place it into my mouth for perseverence of your doctrinal position. I do not believe that you or Imagican are born again, as your doctrines and your testimonies are lacking. You also align with those of cultic teachings which are from the doctrines of devils. Since you press the issue, let me take you by the hand and explain the post to Imagican. If Imagican is born again, God will give wisdom and understanding to him, but (and here is the part that you could not comprehend from the conditional statement that I made) until he is born again, he will not receive wisdom and understanding and will be in trouble until he is born again.

There is no fellowship between light and darkness, and that tower that I give warning from is so that you all don't burn in the hell that satan has deceived you from believing in.

 

[Imagican]

Solo,

Let me offer this:

I WAS lost and NOW I AM found. There have been miracles manifest in my life that were previously BEYOND my comprehension. WHY God chose to reveal Himself to me is something that I DO NOT UNDERSTAND. If given MY OWN understanding I would STILL be living in the SAME darkness that I lived in for the MAJORITY of my life. God has opened up my heart AND my mind in ways that MOST seem unable to comprehend. I can think of NOTHING that I can offer that could POSSIBLY be greater than offering such witness and testamony so that PERHAPS others may 'see' the truth as well and are able to experience the SAME Love that I have been freely given.

See, Solo, I KNOW Satan. I lived FOR him for MOST of my life. I didn't practice 'witchcraft' or 'satanism' OUTRIGHT. So, NO, I never sacrificed kitties to the prince of darkness, but MUCH worse, I had sacrificed my heart and soul by living WITHOUT being able to experience the Love that God has to share or being able to offer Love in return to either Him or others.

So, your 'doctrine of demons' statement seems quite humorous to me. I seem to remember offering a 'thread' once entitled, "Do you have demons'? The majority of the 'so called' Christians on this forum treated my statements as if they were a 'joke' of sorts. Insisting to me and others that a 'true' Christians COULNDN'T be influenced by demons. I tried my best to show that, since the Bible was written TO and FOR Christians that WHATEVER it offers is FOR the sake of Christians. And the Bible PLAINLY states that 'CHRISTIANS' are to put on the WHOLE armor of God in order to defend themselves against the wiles of the Devil and his demons. This was ridiculed and argued with by MOST that offered replies. If I am not mistaken YOU are one of those that insisted that one that IS saved is NOT capable of being influenced by demons. So, you see, your statement accusing ME of being led by doctrines of demons offers little but humor in my eyes.

And your accusations ring of the 'same' tone of those that accused Christ of the 'same' thing. Your accusations are NO different than those that accused Christ of being 'the son of satan'. A very 'weak' attempt at discrediting that which 'you don't understand'. No, Solo, it is YOU that seem to have trouble accepting the truth. You judge others unrighteously and then sit back and revel in your ignorance of such matters even after being warned and offered understanding. So, if there IS one that follows doctrines of demons, I would suggest a quick trip to a mirror and a deep look inside.

MEC

 

[cyberjosh]

The devil speaks to you in your own voice inside of the ole head, but God speaks to your heart in his own still small voice

So the Devil answered my prayer and told me to give a lost girl a Bible, which later led to her getting saved?

A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Think about it.

 

[Imagican]

I thought about it. NOPE, don't work that way. The LAST thing that Satan would want is for ANYONE to be given a Bible. And it seems, that MANY churches would have it the 'same way'. For they do EVERYTHING in their power to DISCOURAGE their members from ACTUALLY READING The Word. I guess that could make it possible for those that DO READ to 'ask questions' concerning traditional practices that are NOT offered through The Word. And this questioning COULD lead to The TRUTH. And that may not be a 'good thing' for men attempting to lead men. Once one comes to the understanding that it's NOT about men's wishes, but the will of God, MOST of the churches would find themselves with empty pews.

Not discouraging 'gathering', just the FORM of gathering that we have been led to 'believe' is what is offered in The Word. Gathering for the 'sake' of gathering means NOTHING to God. Gathering for the sake of The Body means EVERYTHING. But, if the gathering is NOT of those 'filled with The Spirit', it's NOTHING BUT a gathering PERIOD. And gathering for the sake of 'some other' spirit CERTAINLY isn't capable of 'pleasing' Our Father.

So now we come to a conclusion: Most of the churches are there to perpetuate 'their own' understanding and their 'own' agenda. Me, mine, our, us, we, etc.............. Doesn't this attempt at 'separation' offer it's own answer to the 'truth of it'? We are NOT separate in flesh, we ARE separate IN SPIRIT. All ARE OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS. But looky what the churches will teach those that are NOT firmly anchored in The Spirit. 'WE' are 'better' than the 'others'. It's US AND THEM. Foolish pride and NOTHING MORE. VANITY OF the spirit and lack of TRUE LOVE. And SO MANY willing to forsake thier neighbors for an 'instiution' built of man. Shame, shame, my friends. There WILL come a time when it becomes manifest that ALL are MEANT to be the children of God and that WE are NOT to take this in vain. Why else are we to BE witnesses. For those 'select' that WE choose?NEGATIVE, good buddy, but for ALL to be given the opportunity to hear of the wonderous works of Our Father.

Flee, flee for your Spiritual lives. Abandon that which honors NOT Our God and Father. Run away from that which honors the flesh and abandon the idea that ANY is 'better' than 'another'. Otherwise be prepared for the consequences that await such.

MEC

MEC

 

[jgredline]

So the Devil answered my prayer and told me to give a lost girl a Bible, which later led to her getting saved?

A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Think about it.

Cyber
Solo was being Sarcastic

 

[Imagican]

You notice how Solo has changed over time MEC? :wink:
At one time there was absolutely no way you and I were born again. :-? Then it seems the possibility started to creep in :fadein:
and NOW, he seems to be acknowledging that it may only be understanding that you lack.

And at one time he plainly said he couldn't have fellowship with us. Now he is calling you pardner. :D

What gives bro? I wonder if the Mods told him to tone his posts down. How hard it is to climb down off such a lofty tower.

A little, I guess. He hasn't really changed except in the intensity of his accusations. Where he once raved of us 'not being saved', and following Satan instead of God, he now offers 'the same' statements with more compasion, (toned down a bit, maybe the Mods have exerted a 'bit of influence' on those that, at times, got out of hand with their sentiments). He STILL thinks that 'we' are the ones that have refused The Word and have NO chance of Salvation, or being 'born again'.

But, as time WILL tell, the MORE one IS exposed to 'The Truth', the MORE of an influence it is capable of having. So, with this in mind, one NEVER KNOWS. I still retain HOPE. :smt023

MEC

 

[jgredline]

Mec and Mutz
You still have not proven your case that Jesus is a created being and not God.

We have proven our point using scripture and after scripture that Jesus is God.

I still go back to these questions and statements that you guys ignored and never answered. Have you even read these statements and questions?


First, the atonement is at stake. If Jesus is merely a created being, and not fully God, then it is hard to see how he, a creature, could bear the full wrath of God against all of our sins. Could any creature, no matter how great, really save us?

Second, justification by faith alone is threatened if we deny the full deity of the Son. (This is seen today in the teaching of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who do not believe in justification by faith alone.) If Jesus is not fully God, we would rightly doubt whether we can really trust him to save us completely. Could we really depend on any creature fully for our salvation?

Third, if Jesus is not infinite God, should we pray to him or worship him? Who but an infinite, omniscient God could hear and respond to all the prayers of all God’s people? And who but God himself is worthy of worship? Indeed, if Jesus is merely a creature, no matter how great, it would be idolatry to worship himâ€â€yet the New Testament commands us to do so (Phil. 2:9–11; Rev. 5:12–14).

Fourth, if someone teaches that Christ was a created being but nonetheless one who saved us, then this teaching wrongly begins to attribute credit for salvation to a creature and not to God himself. But this wrongfully exalts the creature rather than the Creator, something Scripture never allows us to do.

Fifth, the independence and personal nature of God are at stake: If there is no Trinity, then there were no interpersonal relationships within the being of God before creation, and, without personal relationships, it is difficult to see how God could be genuinely personal or be without the need for a creation to relate to.

Sixth, the unity of the universe is at stake: If there is not perfect plurality and perfect unity in God himself, then we have no basis for thinking there can be any ultimate unity among the diverse elements of the universe either. Clearly, in the doctrine of the Trinity, the heart of the Christian faith is at stake. ''

 

[jgredline]

17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working."

18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.


Equality with God in Power

19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.


Equality with God in Authority

22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

 

[mutzrein]

JG - I have not said that Jesus is a created being so why would I need to prove it?

 

[jgredline]

JG - I have not said that Jesus is a created being so why would I need to prove it?

Mutz
My appologies. I know Mec has said that.
So I will ask you. Is Jesus created?

 

[mutzrein]

Mutz
My appologies. I know Mec has said that.
So I will ask you. Is Jesus created?

No problem. Apology accepted.

I will answer your question if you can answer mine. Tell me, when you speak, is your word created?

 

[jgredline]

No problem. Apology accepted.

I will answer your question if you can answer mine. Tell me, when you speak, is your word created?

Mutz
When I speak my words are created. I can see where you are going with this. This ought to be good.

Now Was Jesus created? a yes or no answer will suffice.

 

[mutzrein]

Mutz
When I speak my words are created. I can see where you are going with this. This ought to be good.

Now Was Jesus created? a yes or no answer will suffice.

Jesus was not created in the sense that we view creation.

 

[jgredline]

Jesus was not created in the sense that we view creation.

Please explain?

 

[mutzrein]

Bear with me while I repeat part of a post I have made elsewhere.

Some folk seem to have a problem even with one of the most fundamental elements of things created. When I speak, I create words. So my word is created. Now of course, they know this but it seems many have decided not to accept it because the logical conclusion is that when God speaks He creates His word and by literal translation, they think I am saying that Jesus is created.

But I’m not saying that at some time God created Jesus once and for all. I am saying that whenever God speaks, he creates his Word. His word has always been WITH him. By God’s word and through God’s word all things have been created.

Now we, in our human ‘wisdom’ cannot conceive the majesty of God, nor can we with our intellect comprehend the things of the spirit of God. Of course we always tend to reduce them to parallels or analogies which are tangible and humanly grasped, but God in reality cannot be defined or analysed in such a way. So I am not about to expound on the nature of God because these things are too wondrous for us to speak of or even behold in human terms. Some things are beyond knowing but what I do know is that God has given me keys of understanding to certain things. Of course I can only understand the things He has shown me since I have neither studied these things nor analysed them intellectually. It is revelation of the spirit of God.

Jesus is the Word of God. He is the conduit through which God has spoken and has brought everything into being.

And since it is God’s word that we are hearing we can say that the word itself is the conduit through which God speaks. And just as my word reflects who I am, so God’s word reflects God. As my word comes from my heart and therefore shows who I am so I can say that my word is me. And as the Word of God emanates from the heart of the Father so it is absolutely correct to say that the Word is God. Because it is the word (which is the reflection of the Father) that shows us God. But this is different to saying that Jesus is God.

But just as the word that proceeds out of my mouth reflects me, it (the word) is not actually me because I am the one who is causing it to be spoken. The word is created in obedience to my will. So there are two entities. Me AND my word. So it is again with God. There are two entities. One is God and the other is his Word. And so we can also say that the Word is WITH God.

So as John says, the Word IS God (in the sense that is represents or reflects Him) and the word is WITH God (in the sense that God is one entity and His Word is another.)

So Jesus, being the Word of God, can rightly proclaim, “before Abraham was I AM†And likewise in other passages that Trinitarians use to attempt to differentiate between an entity they call God the Father and another they call God the son there is no inconsistency either.

The real issue is that those who cling to this doctrine cannot see or perceive scripture in any other way, than that in which they have been taught. Furthermore, this leads to a major problem and that is that many who accept the doctrine, believe it because they are told that its acceptance is necessary for salvation. And therefore as a consequence many are taught that not to accept it, is tantamount to losing ones salvation.

But my contention is (and this is at the root of what God has shown me) our salvation is based on righteousness imputed by God, through faith in Christ. And this faith is a gift. So if God gives man this faith, and this faith does not ALLOW him to see the Trinitarian doctrine, do we blame God who is the giver or man who is the recipient? Of course we can do neither because in either case salvation would not be by faith.

Now I am not denying that those who accept OR reject the trinity are necessarily lost or ‘saved’. I am merely saying that a gospel that requires adherence to a doctrine in order for a person to be saved, is not a gospel based on faith and therefore it can only lead to self righteousness – which in God’s sight is filthy rags.

 

[Solo]

Bear with me while I repeat part of a post I have made elsewhere.

Some folk seem to have a problem even with one of the most fundamental elements of things created. When I speak, I create words. So my word is created. Now of course, they know this but it seems many have decided not to accept it because the logical conclusion is that when God speaks He creates His word and by literal translation, they think I am saying that Jesus is created.

But I’m not saying that at some time God created Jesus once and for all. I am saying that whenever God speaks, he creates his Word. His word has always been WITH him. By God’s word and through God’s word all things have been created.

Now we, in our human ‘wisdom’ cannot conceive the majesty of God, nor can we with our intellect comprehend the things of the spirit of God. Of course we always tend to reduce them to parallels or analogies which are tangible and humanly grasped, but God in reality cannot be defined or analysed in such a way. So I am not about to expound on the nature of God because these things are too wondrous for us to speak of or even behold in human terms. Some things are beyond knowing but what I do know is that God has given me keys of understanding to certain things. Of course I can only understand the things He has shown me since I have neither studied these things nor analysed them intellectually. It is revelation of the spirit of God.

Jesus is the Word of God. He is the conduit through which God has spoken and has brought everything into being.

And since it is God’s word that we are hearing we can say that the word itself is the conduit through which God speaks. And just as my word reflects who I am, so God’s word reflects God. As my word comes from my heart and therefore shows who I am so I can say that my word is me. And as the Word of God emanates from the heart of the Father so it is absolutely correct to say that the Word is God. Because it is the word (which is the reflection of the Father) that shows us God. But this is different to saying that Jesus is God.

But just as the word that proceeds out of my mouth reflects me, it (the word) is not actually me because I am the one who is causing it to be spoken. The word is created in obedience to my will. So there are two entities. Me AND my word. So it is again with God. There are two entities. One is God and the other is his Word. And so we can also say that the Word is WITH God.

So as John says, the Word IS God (in the sense that is represents or reflects Him) and the word is WITH God (in the sense that God is one entity and His Word is another.)

So Jesus, being the Word of God, can rightly proclaim, “before Abraham was I AM†And likewise in other passages that Trinitarians use to attempt to differentiate between an entity they call God the Father and another they call God the son there is no inconsistency either.

The real issue is that those who cling to this doctrine cannot see or perceive scripture in any other way, than that in which they have been taught. Furthermore, this leads to a major problem and that is that many who accept the doctrine, believe it because they are told that its acceptance is necessary for salvation. And therefore as a consequence many are taught that not to accept it, is tantamount to losing ones salvation.

But my contention is (and this is at the root of what God has shown me) our salvation is based on righteousness imputed by God, through faith in Christ. And this faith is a gift. So if God gives man this faith, and this faith does not ALLOW him to see the Trinitarian doctrine, do we blame God who is the giver or man who is the recipient? Of course we can do neither because in either case salvation would not be by faith.

Now I am not denying that those who accept OR reject the trinity are necessarily lost or ‘saved’. I am merely saying that a gospel that requires adherence to a doctrine in order for a person to be saved, is not a gospel based on faith and therefore it can only lead to self righteousness – which in God’s sight is filthy rags.

How do you interpret this verse?

24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, F28 Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. 25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. Daniel 3:24-25

Is this fourth person in the fire the Word of God?