Original Sin

[mutzrein]

There is nothing ‘magical’ regarding the consequence of sin or being made sinners by ‘original sin’. The consequence of Adam’s sin is death. We are born of the flesh and therefore inherit the birthright of the flesh and unless God intervenes in our life we will follow the course of our birthright which is to perish.

Christendom has got it wrong in respect of man being born with a spirit.
It is the spirit which gives life and it is given at God’s behest.
So the condemnation which every man bears is not that he is guilty of performing sinful acts whether as a child or cognisant adult and therefore on his way to hell. His condemnation is that he is born into a ‘state of sin’ and like Adam will perish unless he can partake of the tree of life which is Christ. And when I say perish I don’t mean punished eternally.

Any person who is born of the Spirit of God is no longer ‘dead’. As scripture says, they have “passed from death to life.†And so in being born of the Spirit they have become God’s children thus inheriting the birthright of the Spirit which is eternal life. This is the gift of God which is given by God’s grace alone and it is what we do with this gift that man will be judged on. Whether to walk in faith, always acknowledging that our righteousness is in Christ alone, or whether to go back to trying to achieve righteousness before God and gain eternal life by what we do. And this is no righteousness at all.

 

[TanNinety]

Hmm Mutzrein, If original sin is applied to anyone who was born human can you tell me if Yashuah partook in this original sin as well or if not, can you explain what made Yashuah "immune" to this original sin?

 

[mutzrein]

Hmm Mutzrein, If original sin is applied to anyone who was born human can you tell me if Yashuah partook in this original sin as well or if not, can you explain what made Yashuah "immune" to this original sin?

Well if you consider it merely on the basis of the consequence of sin (which is death) then He was not subject to it. Why? Because he was born of the Spirit of God. It is the Spirit that gives life and it was the Spirit that planted the seed within Mary. It was not the seed of the flesh but of the Spirit. Jesus was born of the Spirit from the womb so he could never have been subject to the consequence of sin as you and I are. Of course a prerequisite to accepting this is acknowledging the virgin birth.

 

[lovely]

If you look at Scripture God tells Adam that if they eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that they will surely die. Eve, who did not even know the Word of God, was deceived into eating. Adam, who was supposed to be the head of Eve, chose to allow her to eat, and to take it himself. The consequence was a spiritual death. This death would only be overcome by the shedding of blood. The first thing God does is replace the leaves that they made, and clothes them with skins to cover their nakedness. So was the blood of Christ shed to clothe man in righteousness, and cover his sin.

Then, God removed the tree of Life, so that they would not live forever in the flesh, and so a fleshly death was also going to be required. I do not think that this was a punishment, but a blessing, because after the believer looses this body, he is finally free from the bondage of sin in a complete manner. Adam and Eve would have had to live forever bound to a sinful flesh.

Original Sin is the state of man's nature that his will is bound up in. We inherit this sinful state of spiritual death, and eventual death in the flesh. All that was good was distorted by Adam's sin...evil entered the world, and distorted all that was good. We know it was good, because God calls it good during creation. Now, because of the consequence of Sin, evil had entered into all of it. This is orginal sin, but because we love this perversion of good, we freely do sinful acts. The nature of Sin, produces the acts of sin. By the same token, the nature of a believer will exhibit fruits of the Spirit because his spirit is alive in Christ, and bearing fruit for God. But until the body dies, the believer is bound to the sinful state of the body, mind, emotions, etc. Only in the death of this body will we be completely free to live eternally.

As far as Satan being the case of the orginal sin, yes, but not as it affects Adam's offspring...Adam was the reason for that. Satan, who had a choice in the matter, chose to distort good, and took angels with him through his deception. That is why he is the deceiver because his purpose is to distort God's good things, and make them seem evil. And, to take the evil and portray it as good. He did this prior to man, and continues today as God allows.

The Lord bless all of you

 

[TanNinety]

Dear Mutz, I agree with you on the consequence of the sin/disobedience of Adam and Eve in the garden. It is death. The consequence is that all flesh that comes to life will perish. I do not contend this part.

What I challenge is that we are all born with this original sin. My understanding is we are all born with a consequence of death. That is because we are born in flesh and in a sinful state.

A newly born baby even though has been born in flesh and with a consequence of death has not committed any sin. This death comes to the baby as a consequence not because the baby is guilty of the original sin. That is what my position is. I agree as long as you are not spirit born you are as good as dead in the flesh.

The only time I believe that sin was imputed to anyone else other than the original sinner was on the cross with Yashuah. He is the only one I believe carried our sins willfully to the grave. I don’t think at any other moment in biblical history was any man made to carry someone else’s sin. Sure people might have suffered the consequences of other's sin.

Original sin brings in the implication of making you accountable for it even though you haven’t committed it. Lets consider a hypothetical example. A baby X was born. This baby X feared God and NEVER sinned. Never sinned in the sense it never sinned in the likeness of Yashuah. This sinless man X(baby turned man) dies and is standing in front of God. Can you hear God say, “wow ..that was awesome ..good try ..you have never sinned against me ..kept all my laws and all my commandments ..but errr ..too bad ..I will have to kick you out because you forgot to read the fine print about original sin�?? Honestly, I don’t see God doing that.

I believe original consequence(sinful state and death) applies to all and not the original sin.

I am interested on what you have said about Yashuah’s birth.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That’s a quote from Yashuah to nicodemus. There should be no contentions that anything born of flesh is flesh and anything born of spirit is spirit.

Because he was born of the Spirit of God. It is the Spirit that gives life and it was the Spirit that planted the seed within Mary. It was not the seed of the flesh but of the Spirit. Jesus was born of the Spirit from the womb

If Yashuah was born of the Spirit from the womb He would have come out as a spirit and not flesh. Spirit does not give birth to flesh. But if you are going to say that He was flesh because He was born of Mary then there is nothing preventing Him from being held under this “original sin†because Mary herself would be under it and Holy Spirit did not give birth to this flesh.

I would not contend that Yashuah’s spirit was not under original sin because He received that from the Holy Spirit. I would however contend the statement that Yashuah’s flesh was not under original sin, because He received it from Mary and not the Holy Spirit.

If you want to say that Yashuah’s flesh was from the Holy Spirit as well then I would ask you to go back and read Yashuah’s own words in John 3:6

Either there is no original sin or if there is then Yashuah was under it just like everyone else because He got His humanity from Mary and not the Holy Spirit.

I think the whole confusion arises when we don’t know what “being a spirit†and “being spirit filled†are. Yashuah was spirit filled ..at His baptism the spirit was “upon†Him. He became The Son of God a spiritual being AT the resurrection (refer to Psalm 2:7 and Acts 13:28-33) He was not birthed a spirit in mary’s womb but AT resurrection and THAT is how Psalm 2:7 is explained in Acts 13. If you would want to debate this issue I welcome you to "Dogs begetting dogs .." thread from Thess.

 

[belovedwolfofgod]

hypostatic union...

its hard to apply this original sin stuff to Jesus and Mary. as the only two humans who are the new adam and the new eve, they have some exceptions...