OSAS....Not !

[Solo]

One can not be unborn again.

The analogy is faulty. Obviously we are born once. But sin is akin to physical death in the scriptures (i.e. spiritual death). One can die, once they have been born. Christ showed he did have the power to raise the dead. This is what is possible.

You need to understand that a person can not be a Christian unless he/she is born again. Once you are born again, you can not be unborn again. You can not be unborn from the flesh, and you can not be unborn from the Spirit. Simple.

 

[Solo]

1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:1-21

 

[D46]

 

[farley]

Solo asked...

And where in that scripture does it mention that believers who depart from the faith lose their salvation? It says nothing at all about the Spirit departing the individuals, nor does it say that their salvation is lost. It only says that they have departed the doctrines of faith and have replaced the doctrine of faith with doctrines of devils.

Excellent question!

Sadly, I've yet to find that one single passage of Scripture which offers all the answers to every possible question regarding sin and salvation.

However, there are many other passages which, when taken together with 1Timothy 4:1-3, will answer this question. Below are a couple...

Ephesians 2:8 KJV
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

In my view, if we depart from our faith, then we also depart from God's grace, and, thus, our salvation.

Revelation 3:5 KJV
(5) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

If I were a gambling man...I think I would be mighty tempted to bet that 'believers who depart the faith, and embrace the doctrine of devils' are the ones spoken of in Rev. 3:5!!!

I do agree that once one is born, physically, as well as spiritually, one cannot then be unborn. But, a child can be disinherited by its father. S/he will still, always, be that father's child though.

Until a person is born again, they are an alien sinner. Once they are born again, they become an obedient Christian, never to be an alien sinner again.

However, if they return to sin, they don't return to be an alien sinner. They will now become a disobedient Christian, which upon dying in this unrepentant state, would suffer the same end as an alien sinner.

Then, once a disobedient Christian repents, they will return again to be an obedient Christian.

In Christ,

farley

 

[Solo]

Solo asked...

And where in that scripture does it mention that believers who depart from the faith lose their salvation? It says nothing at all about the Spirit departing the individuals, nor does it say that their salvation is lost. It only says that they have departed the doctrines of faith and have replaced the doctrine of faith with doctrines of devils.

Excellent question!

Sadly, I've yet to find that one single passage of Scripture which offers all the answers to every possible question regarding sin and salvation.

However, there are many other passages which, when taken together with 1Timothy 4:1-3, will answer this question. Below are a couple...

Ephesians 2:8 KJV
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

In my view, if we depart from our faith, then we also depart from God's grace, and, thus, our salvation.

You really need to study what happens when one is born again. God has granted every believer the promise of salvation where no one can pluck them out of his hand. A person can walk in the flesh and sin, but he can not leave the position that he has been given by God as a free gift. Once that gift is accepted, a person is born again, sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. You can not walk into your salvation and you can not walk away from your salvation. You can not be unborn from the flesh and you can not be unborn from the Spirit. You can walk away from your earthly father but you can not be unborn of the flesh. You can walk away from your heavenly father but you can not be unborn of the Spirit. It is not your choice. It was not your choice to be born of the flesh, and it was not your choice to be born of the Spirit. God oversaw both, therefore no one can boast.

Revelation 3:5 KJV
(5) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

If I were a gambling man...I think I would be mighty tempted to bet that 'believers who depart the faith, and embrace the doctrine of devils' are the ones spoken of in Rev. 3:5!!!

You would lose the bet. Salvation is not dependent upon a believers walk, it is based on the free gift of God. A believer can walk in the flesh and sin, and a believer can walk in the Spirit and obey God. Both abilities exist in the new born again creature of God. When a believer walks in the flesh, it is the corrupt, mortal flesh that he obeys, not the new born again creature. When a believer walks in the Spirit, it is the incorruptible, immortal seed of God that obeys God, not the flesh.

Since we are making bets, I would bet that you have unconfessed sin in your life. I would bet that you have a lacking in understanding the full will of God in your life. I would also bet that you walk in the flesh as much or more than you walk in the Spirit. Welcome to the world of born again believers in a body of corruptible, mortal flesh. Read Romans 7 and 8 for a complete understanding of the battle between the sinful flesh and Spirit born inward man.

I do agree that once one is born, physically, as well as spiritually, one cannot then be unborn. But, a child can be disinherited by its father. S/he will still, always, be that father's child though.

Until a person is born again, they are an alien sinner. Once they are born again, they become an obedient Christian, never to be an alien sinner again.

You are halfway there in understanding that you can not be unborn. Now you just have to understand the makeup of a Christian. The sad part is that believers continue to have a sinful flesh to deal with. They can be obedient when they walk in the Spirit, and they can be disobedient when they walk in the flesh.

There are not levels of sinners from a salvation standpoint, only from a rewards standpoint. A sinner is loved by God first. A sinner doesn't love God first. A sinner is saved by faith by grace not of works. When a sinner is born again of the Spirit of God, he/she is no longer condemned, but is guaranteed a place in the kingdom of God. Once a person is a child of God, they remain a child of God. You must read the story of the prodigal son in order to understand that your position of a father disowning his son is a distorted view of love. The father of the prodigal son never disowned his son; and God will never disown any of his born again children.

However, if they return to sin, they don't return to be an alien sinner. They will now become a disobedient Christian, which upon dying in this unrepentant state, would suffer the same end as an alien sinner.

Then, once a disobedient Christian repents, they will return again to be an obedient Christian.

In Christ,

farley

So how many times can a person be born again? The Bible teaches salvation as a one time born again experience, and Jesus says that unless a person is born of the flesh and born of the Spirit he/she cannot enter the Kingdom of God. When a person is born again, he continues to have the corpse of flesh which is corrupt and mortal. The redemption of this creature does not take place until the flesh is changed in a twinkling of an eye at the coming of Jesus. The corrupt will put on incorruption, and the mortal will put on immortality. Sin will never live in that redeemed creature again. When you prayerfully read 1 John you will come to understand the sinner, sin, the new creature begotten of God, and the old creature of flesh. After you read 1 John do a thorough reading of Romans and you will begin to understand salvation. Salvation and Sanctification are two entirely two different aspects of the believers walk.

My God saved me from condemnation, and there is absolutely nothing that I can do to mess that up.

 

[thessalonian]

One can not be unborn again.

The analogy is faulty. Obviously we are born once. But sin is akin to physical death in the scriptures (i.e. spiritual death). One can die, once they have been born. Christ showed he did have the power to raise the dead. This is what is possible.

You need to understand that a person can not be a Christian unless he/she is born again. Once you are born again, you can not be unborn again. You can not be unborn from the flesh, and you can not be unborn from the Spirit. Simple.

You missed my point. Can one become unhuman. Of course not. But one who is human can die. It's not about being unborn. It's about spiritual death. "The wages of sin is death". The soul that was dead in sin can die again in sin. It does not have to be born again however. It needs to be resurrected and restored as Lazarus was physically. When Jesus arose from the dead he "breathed" on the Apostles saying "recieve the Holy Spirit, whose sins you forgive, are forgiven...". Did you catch that. He BREATHED on them. The one time that God breathed on man other than this was genesis, giving Adam PHYSICAL LIFE. Here he gives spiritual life through the forgiveness of sins. Adam was not born when he was given physical life. We are resurrected in a similiar manner to Adams "resurrection" spirtually by the forgiveness of sin. It is not limited to one time. For Christ can resurrect a man to physically multiple times. So can he resurrect them spirtually.

 

[thessalonian]

I am curious about one thing. Romans 8 talks about things that cannot separate us from the love of God. Oddly enough Adam sinned and it did cause separation from God. Yet Romans 8:38 seems to forget sin. It's not mentioned as being unable to cause separation from God. Now how many times will God forgive, that is if we forgive those who trespass against us? Seven times? No, seventy times 7 times which is not 490. So we do not have to be born again and again and again. We just need to accept his forgiveness and forgive others and then abide in him by his grace. But if we go on sinning, it's not good.


1 Timothy 5 [Context] [Commentary]

20. Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.



Blessings
Hebrews 10 [Context] [Commentary]

26. For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,


Blessings

 

[Solo]

One can not be unborn again.

The analogy is faulty. Obviously we are born once. But sin is akin to physical death in the scriptures (i.e. spiritual death). One can die, once they have been born. Christ showed he did have the power to raise the dead. This is what is possible.

You need to understand that a person can not be a Christian unless he/she is born again. Once you are born again, you can not be unborn again. You can not be unborn from the flesh, and you can not be unborn from the Spirit. Simple.

You missed my point. Can one become unhuman. Of course not. But one who is human can die. It's not about being unborn. It's about spiritual death. "The wages of sin is death". The soul that was dead in sin can die again in sin. It does not have to be born again however. It needs to be resurrected and restored as Lazarus was physically. When Jesus arose from the dead he "breathed" on the Apostles saying "receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you forgive, are forgiven...". Did you catch that. He BREATHED on them. The one time that God breathed on man other than this was genesis, giving Adam PHYSICAL LIFE. Here he gives spiritual life through the forgiveness of sins. Adam was not born when he was given physical life. We are resurrected in a similiar manner to Adams "resurrection" spirtually by the forgiveness of sin. It is not limited to one time. For Christ can resurrect a man to physically multiple times. So can he resurrect them spirtually.

When one is born of the Spirit of God, that portion of a believer does not sin; only the corrupt and mortal flesh sins. That is why the Bible teaches a believer to walk in the Spirit so that one does not fulfill the lust of the flesh. The born of the Spirit portion of a believer will never die, just as the Bible promises. The born of the Spirit portion of a believer is that which is the new creature. Being a Christian in name only will permit one to believe they are heaven bound when in fact they are not; when one is born of the Spirit of God, they are heaven bound, no matter what. They are exhorted to persevere in the mind of Christ and to abide in him so that one doesn't mess up their life on earth with sinful living.

Read about the first resurrection where the second death does not harm one. The resurrection does not occur until Jesus' coming. One can not be unborn again as a human, and one can not be unborn again when born of the Spirit.

The believer has two births as Jesus explained in John 3. A believer is born of the flesh, and born of the Spirit. That which is born of God does not sin, but the flesh is bound to sin. In order to stay free from sin, a believer must walk in the Spirit instead of the flesh. That is the life of repentence and perseverence that is described as the sanctification process. We are justified at salvation, sanctified throughout our Christian walk, and glorified at redemption when Jesus returns.

 

[Solo]

I am curious about one thing. Romans 8 talks about things that cannot separate us from the love of God. Oddly enough Adam sinned and it did cause separation from God. Yet Romans 8:38 seems to forget sin. It's not mentioned as being unable to cause separation from God. Now how many times will God forgive, that is if we forgive those who trespass against us? Seven times? No, seventy times 7 times which is not 490. So we do not have to be born again and again and again. We just need to accept his forgiveness and forgive others and then abide in him by his grace. But if we go on sinning, it's not good.


1 Timothy 5 [Context] [Commentary]

20. Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.



Blessings
Hebrews 10 [Context] [Commentary]

26. For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,


Blessings

Read Romans 7 and Romans 8. You will see that sin is a part of the corrupt, mortal flesh and it is at war within a believer's members as the inward man (the born again, born of the Spirit of God creature). Paul sees that Jesus has saved believers from being bound to sin through the new creature at the born again experience. The flesh will remain corrupt and mortal until Jesus returns. The born of the Spirit portion of the believer does not sin. The flesh sins but the born again portion of the believer does not sin.

 

[farley]

Solo stated...

You really need to study what happens when one is born again. God has granted every believer the promise of salvation where no one can pluck them out of his hand.

The meaning here is that Satan doesn’t have that kind of power. We can’t be tempted beyond our own ability to resist. Satan doesn’t wrench us out of God’s clenched fist. He woos us away from God’s embrace. He deceives us into perceiving that what he is offering, for that instant, is just what we are needing. We have to pry God’s grip on us away. No one plucks us, we freely yield to Satan.

A person can walk in the flesh and sin, but he can not leave the position that he has been given by God as a free gift. Once that gift is accepted, a person is born again, sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. You can not walk into your salvation and you can not walk away from your salvation. You can not be unborn from the flesh and you can not be unborn from the Spirit. You can walk away from your earthly father but you can not be unborn of the flesh. You can walk away from your heavenly father but you can not be unborn of the Spirit. It is not your choice. It was not your choice to be born of the flesh, and it was not your choice to be born of the Spirit. God oversaw both, therefore no one can boast.

It seems that you have had to misinterpret a lot of scripture to cobble together your above meanings.

You would lose the bet. Salvation is not dependent upon a believers walk, it is based on the free gift of God. A believer can walk in the flesh and sin, and a believer can walk in the Spirit and obey God. Both abilities exist in the new born again creature of God. When a believer walks in the flesh, it is the corrupt, mortal flesh that he obeys, not the new born again creature. When a believer walks in the Spirit, it is the incorruptible, immortal seed of God that obeys God, not the flesh.

So, who are you saying that those names that will be blotted out of the Book of Life will belong to? I’ve been thinking that only those who have been born again would be in this book. Is it alien sinners whose names are listed in the Book of Life, and therefore MAY be at risk of being blotted out? Who?

I’m sure that know the significance of conflicting scripture. This is what we have here!!!

Since we are making bets, I would bet that you have unconfessed sin in your life. I would bet that you have a lacking in understanding the full will of God in your life. I would also bet that you walk in the flesh as much or more than you walk in the Spirit.

No bets here. You are exactly right! This is why I pray at least five times a day!

1 Thessalonians 5:17 KJV
(17) Pray without ceasing.

I don’t know if you, or anyone else, prays, or what you may pray for, but I pray for forgiveness of my sins. If I’m conscious the last few minutes of my life, I’ll be praying.

You are halfway there in understanding that you can not be unborn. Now you just have to understand the makeup of a Christian. The sad part is that believers continue to have a sinful flesh to deal with. They can be obedient when they walk in the Spirit, and they can be disobedient when they walk in the flesh.

You mean that I'm half way there, to being able to interpret scripture the same as you. I doubt this will ever come to pass. There is no doubt in my mind that you, and many others here, are better read, deeper thinkers, than I. But, flawed logic will yield flawed results.

There are not levels of sinners from a salvation standpoint, only from a rewards standpoint.

We’ll just have to split hairs here. One level of sin, from two categories of sinners.

A sinner is loved by God first. A sinner doesn't love God first. A sinner is saved by faith by grace not of works.

Semantics, here again! “…not of works.â€Â…means NOT someone working their own plan. Faith without works is dead. You seem comfortable overlooking this commandment.

So how many times can a person be born again?

One. Just as I stated in my earlier post.

My God saved me from condemnation, and there is absolutely nothing that I can do to mess that up.

If you’re right, I’m covered. If I’m right, you’re in trouble!

_________________
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him ... for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin e revealed...
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

BTW what is the meaning of this “falling away†mentioned in your tag line above?

In Christ,

farley

 

[thessalonian]

I am curious about one thing. Romans 8 talks about things that cannot separate us from the love of God. Oddly enough Adam sinned and it did cause separation from God. Yet Romans 8:38 seems to forget sin. It's not mentioned as being unable to cause separation from God. Now how many times will God forgive, that is if we forgive those who trespass against us? Seven times? No, seventy times 7 times which is not 490. So we do not have to be born again and again and again. We just need to accept his forgiveness and forgive others and then abide in him by his grace. But if we go on sinning, it's not good.


1 Timothy 5 [Context] [Commentary]

20. Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.



Blessings
Hebrews 10 [Context] [Commentary]

26. For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,


Blessings

Read Romans 7 and Romans 8. You will see that sin is a part of the corrupt, mortal flesh and it is at war within a believer's members as the inward man (the born again, born of the Spirit of God creature). Paul sees that Jesus has saved believers from being bound to sin through the new creature at the born again experience. The flesh will remain corrupt and mortal until Jesus returns. The born of the Spirit portion of the believer does not sin. The flesh sins but the born again portion of the believer does not sin.

Jesus actually freed us from sin. He didn't just start ignoring it but gives us the means to overcome it. We do not have to sin but by his grace struggle against it and ask his forgiveness. If we turn to him as our advocate he will be merciful and forgive and give us the grace to "go and sin no more" as he told the woman caught in adultery. Do you suppose that he was telling her go and have the part of you that is the spirit sin no more? "You will committ adultery again but it is only your body that is committing it.". Was he giving her an impossible command to stop committing adultery? We know people stop prostituting so we know he was not. This simply doesn't make sense. Sorry. True freedom from sin is to overcome sin. That is the freedom Jesus promises by his grace.

 

[Solo]

Solo stated...

You really need to study what happens when one is born again. God has granted every believer the promise of salvation where no one can pluck them out of his hand.

The meaning here is that Satan doesn’t have that kind of power. We can’t be tempted beyond our own ability to resist. Satan doesn’t wrench us out of God’s clenched fist. He woos us away from God’s embrace. He deceives us into perceiving that what he is offering, for that instant, is just what we are needing. We have to pry God’s grip on us away. No one plucks us, we freely yield to Satan.

[quote:308bf]A person can walk in the flesh and sin, but he can not leave the position that he has been given by God as a free gift. Once that gift is accepted, a person is born again, sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. You can not walk into your salvation and you can not walk away from your salvation. You can not be unborn from the flesh and you can not be unborn from the Spirit. You can walk away from your earthly father but you can not be unborn of the flesh. You can walk away from your heavenly father but you can not be unborn of the Spirit. It is not your choice. It was not your choice to be born of the flesh, and it was not your choice to be born of the Spirit. God oversaw both, therefore no one can boast.

It seems that you have had to misinterpret a lot of scripture to cobble together your above meanings.

You would lose the bet. Salvation is not dependent upon a believers walk, it is based on the free gift of God. A believer can walk in the flesh and sin, and a believer can walk in the Spirit and obey God. Both abilities exist in the new born again creature of God. When a believer walks in the flesh, it is the corrupt, mortal flesh that he obeys, not the new born again creature. When a believer walks in the Spirit, it is the incorruptible, immortal seed of God that obeys God, not the flesh.

So, who are you saying that those names that will be blotted out of the Book of Life will belong to? I’ve been thinking that only those who have been born again would be in this book. Is it alien sinners whose names are listed in the Book of Life, and therefore MAY be at risk of being blotted out? Who?

I’m sure that know the significance of conflicting scripture. This is what we have here!!!

Since we are making bets, I would bet that you have unconfessed sin in your life. I would bet that you have a lacking in understanding the full will of God in your life. I would also bet that you walk in the flesh as much or more than you walk in the Spirit.

No bets here. You are exactly right! This is why I pray at least five times a day!

1 Thessalonians 5:17 KJV
(17) Pray without ceasing.

I don’t know if you, or anyone else, prays, or what you may pray for, but I pray for forgiveness of my sins. If I’m conscious the last few minutes of my life, I’ll be praying.

You are halfway there in understanding that you can not be unborn. Now you just have to understand the makeup of a Christian. The sad part is that believers continue to have a sinful flesh to deal with. They can be obedient when they walk in the Spirit, and they can be disobedient when they walk in the flesh.

You mean that I'm half way there, to being able to interpret scripture the same as you. I doubt this will ever come to pass. There is no doubt in my mind that you, and many others here, are better read, deeper thinkers, than I. But, flawed logic will yield flawed results.

There are not levels of sinners from a salvation standpoint, only from a rewards standpoint.

We’ll just have to split hairs here. One level of sin, from two categories of sinners.

A sinner is loved by God first. A sinner doesn't love God first. A sinner is saved by faith by grace not of works.

Semantics, here again! “…not of works.â€Â…means NOT someone working their own plan. Faith without works is dead. You seem comfortable overlooking this commandment.

So how many times can a person be born again?

One. Just as I stated in my earlier post.

My God saved me from condemnation, and there is absolutely nothing that I can do to mess that up.

If you’re right, I’m covered. If I’m right, you’re in trouble!

_________________
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him ... for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed...
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

BTW what is the meaning of this “falling away†mentioned in your tag line above?

In Christ,

farley[/quote:308bf]
If you are born again you are seated with Jesus Christ in the heavens and you will not see condemnation, if you are not born again you will be in eternal torment with satan and his angels.

You have been shown many, many times in scripture this truth, but you are blinded by your lack of understanding and immaturity in the Word. You will have to continue to study God's Word in order to understand, and rightly divide it.

 

[farley]

Solo,

I realize that I'm truly a babe in Christ, barely two years, compared to you. I, also, realize that all of us here are plowing ground that has been plowed for over two millennia.

We just happen to be products of our environments. What we have been exposed to early on is hard to let go of. I'm just as affected, or guilty, of this as anyone. But, I AM out here in forums, like this, seeking to know more about the most important subject in the world.

If I'm not following the Truth, then I truly want to know it! Hopefully, you, and everyone else here, feels the same way. When I see a position that seems to be in error, like most everyone else, I get the urge to share my opinion. And, I am happy to hear any sincere rebuttal.

But, some here seem to be holding themselves out as one with all of the answers, wanting to steer the rest of us onto THE path. But, THE path usually turns out to be THEIR path, with Scriptural conflicts out the wah-zoo.

I wish that I were better able to express myself here. I'm seeing your position on salvation as some variation of Calvinism, which leaves me cold!

OSAS a tenet of Calvinism, links Calvin's Predestination ...yada ...yada ...yada ... If it's Calvin's Predestination it's out of our hands anyway, if it's OSAS...I believe, I've confessed, I've repented, I've been baptised via total immersion in water, so I'm covered in this department.

I'm now just trying to reconcile the rest of the Scripture, seeking the Truth.

In Christ,

farley

 

[Jay T]

One can not be unborn again. It is impossible, just as it says in Hebrews. .

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

[Jay T]

How many times do you believe that one must be born again in order to be saved? Is God not able to save a sinner through the death and resurrection of his only Son once for all time?

The person who is truerly...born again.... 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. And sin is the breaking of any of the commandments of God (such as the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath).

My God is able ....

....to keep any person from committing sin, which is again the breaking of any, of the commandments of God.

The Bible tells us the grace is ...stronger the the power of sin.
And, those who have the grace of God, keeps all...the commandments.

 

[joyinhim]

Hi everyone, I haven't indepthly studied OSAS theology, but I had to put my two cents worth.

All I know is that their unbalanced theology is confusing new Christians.

I know many Christians believe that they are saved no matter what they do or don't do as long as we believe Jesus is son of God and savior.

We have to watch how we are affecting our fellow believers. If what we preach or teach confuses or mislead others it can not be truthful theology and we have to stop it.

OSAS people have to think how you are affecting people with your theology.

 

[Solo]

One can not be unborn again. It is impossible, just as it says in Hebrews. .

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Having knowledge of the truth is not the same as having the truth. Once the Truth lives inside of you, you are born of the Spirit, and you are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. If the salvation of God was dependent on man's ability to walk in righteousness, no one would be saved. Salvation is from God, of God, by God and was applied while we were yet sinners, and throughout the existence of our sinful flesh. The born of the Spirit portion of a believer does not sin. Read 1 John.

 

[Solo]

How many times do you believe that one must be born again in order to be saved? Is God not able to save a sinner through the death and resurrection of his only Son once for all time?

The person who is truerly...born again.... 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. And sin is the breaking of any of the commandments of God (such as the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath).

My God is able ....

....to keep any person from committing sin, which is again the breaking of any, of the commandments of God.

The Bible tells us the grace is ...stronger the the power of sin.
And, those who have the grace of God, keeps all...the commandments.

When you do not do what God wants you to do, it is sin. When you take your aggressions out on a brother in Christ you sin. When you speak falsly about a doctrine of Christ Jesus you sin. When you do not pray unceasingly, you sin. When you walk in the flesh instead of the Spirit, you sin. What part of the person sins, the flesh which is corrupt and mortal, or the portion that is born of God. 1 John says that the portion that is born of God is incorruptible and does not sin. Romans 7 & 8 makes it plain that the flesh is corrupt and is dead in sin. The flesh sins while the inward man of the born again (born of the Spirit) does not. There is more to being obedient to God as a believer than keeping the ten commandments. The ten commandments are a mirror to tell individuals of their need for a saviour. The keeping of the Sabbath one day of the week is not enough in Gods eyes. The temple is not outside of the body of a believer any longer. The body of the believer is the temple of God for God lives inside of every believer, and that believer is seated with Jesus Christ in the heavenlies. He not only tasted the Holy Spirit, and the things of the heavenly, but he has been born of the Holy Spirit of God foreever and ever, and will be redeemed as he is sealed by God himself.

 

[xicali]

food for thought

Here's some good verses hope they help:

Psalm 89:30-35

"...if his sons forsake my law
and fail to walk in my ways,

31
if they do not obey my decrees
and fail to keep my commands,

32
then I will punish their sin with the rod,
and their disobedience with beating.

33
But I will never stop loving him,
nor let my promise to him fail..."

Isaiah 1:12-15

"...When you come to appear before me,
who has required of you
this trampling of my courts?

13 Bring no more vain offerings;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations--
I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.

14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts
my soul hates;
they have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.

15 When you spread out your hands,
I will hide my eyes from you;
even though you make many prayers,
I will not listen..."

You are blessed!

xicali

 

[thessalonian]

The literal sense of Psalm 89 is of the Davidic Kingdom and the Jews. So are all Jews saved? There is a spiritual sense but we can discuss that later. I'm interested in your answer to this question first.

Individually God of course will bring about the salvation of those whom he has chosen. The way to know if you are one of this is ONLY to persevere in his grace.