OSAS....Not !

[Solo]

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. Romans 11:1-36

 

[Jay T]

There is more to being obedient to God as a believer than keeping the ten commandments. The ten commandments are a mirror to tell individuals of their need for a saviour. The keeping of the Sabbath one day of the week is not enough in Gods eyes.

Yes, very true.
The religious leaders of Christ's day were sabbath keepers....yet, most were lost men.
The same is true today.
There are many SDA's, that keep the sabbath superficially, without the true spirit, behind God's meaning, of the 7th day Sabbath.

Yes, God set up the 7th day sabbath as the [sign] between Himself and the Believer.... 20:20 "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a [sign] between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God". ....BUT, only the true believer...in Christ....can keep the 7th day sabbath as God testifies, in the above Bible verse.

The 7th day Sabbath can be....a works program...as is the case of Sunday worship services is now.

 

[Solo]

When people understand what the Sabbath was really for, and to whom the Sabbath was given, then they can understand the importance of ceasing from their own works, and participate in the works of the kingdom. The Sabbath was given to the Israelites because of their lacking the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. They also had a temple whereby the priests offered sacrifices to atone for sins. Believers need neither. I still am waiting to hear why Sabbatarians do not teach that every day should be kept holy unto God, instead of Saturday only.

 

[Jay T]

When people understand what the Sabbath was really for, and to whom the Sabbath was given, then they can understand the importance of ceasing from their own works, and participate in the works of the kingdom. The Sabbath was given to the Israelites because of their lacking the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Fact #1.) The 7th day sabbath was established, by God (Christ), some 2300+ years...BEFORE....there was ever a Jew (Genesis 2:2,3)
Fact #2.) God commandments are to be followed by every person on earth, 'mankind', as scripture says in (Ecclesiastes 12:13,14)

They also had a temple whereby the priests offered sacrifices to atone for sins. Believers need neither.

I still am waiting to hear why Sabbatarians do not teach that every day should be kept holy unto God, instead of Saturday only.

Because God only made one day....HOLY, Genesis 2:2,3......
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy".

20:9 "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work"

20:10 "But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it".
God (Christ) made one day different from the other 6 days.

And, the word: Remember ..is point back to the time of its begining.

 

[Solo]

When people understand what the Sabbath was really for, and to whom the Sabbath was given, then they can understand the importance of ceasing from their own works, and participate in the works of the kingdom. The Sabbath was given to the Israelites because of their lacking the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Fact #1.) The 7th day sabbath was established, by God (Christ), some 2300+ years...BEFORE....there was ever a Jew (Genesis 2:2,3)
Fact #2.) God commandments are to be followed by every person on earth, 'mankind', as scripture says in (Ecclesiastes 12:13,14)

They also had a temple whereby the priests offered sacrifices to atone for sins. Believers need neither.

I still am waiting to hear why Sabbatarians do not teach that every day should be kept holy unto God, instead of Saturday only.

Because God only made one day....HOLY, Genesis 2:2,3......
Exodus 20:8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy".

20:9 "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work"

20:10 "But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it".
God (Christ) made one day different from the other 6 days.

And, the word: Remember ..is point back to the time of its begining.

What commandments existed prior to the Law that was given to the Israelites? The first time that the Sabbath was kept was by Moses and the Israelites as recorded in Exodus 16. No one before the Law kept the Sabbath as was given to Moses in the Law. The Law did not exist prior to the Israelites exodus from Egypt.

Do those that keep the Sabbath follow this commandment?

And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you. Exodus 12:16

How many Sabbath keepers are put to death when they are found to have worked on the Sabbath?

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. Exodus 35:2

Should not every day follow this guidence from the Lord as spoken by Isaiah?


If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Isaiah 58:13

What is your thoughts on this scripture from Jesus?

17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:17-24

The only place in the New Testament where the Sabbath is mentioned after the resurrection of Jesus, and the teaching of the gospel to the Jews as recorded in Acts is the one verse of scripture in Colossians.


16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. Colossians 2:16-23

We know what commandment Jesus thought was the most important commandment as recorded in Matthew 22.

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, halt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Matthew 22:34-40

In John 13 Jesus declares that he is giving us new commandment apart from the 10 commandments, and the proof of one being a believer is not dependent upon one keeping the Sabbath as men have determined, but by this new commandment from Jesus.

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34-35

When Jesus was asked by the rich young man what commandments that he should keep, Jesus told him to keep the commandments. The commandments that he told him to keep did not include the fourth commandment keeping the Sabbath day holy, but to do no murder, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness; to honor thy father and mother, and to love thy neighbor as thyself. The rich man said that he had kept all of these things since his youth, and when Jesus told him to sell all that he had and give it to the poor and follow Him, the young man walked sorrowfully off. The Sabbath commandment was not mentioned, but the love thy neighbor as thyself was.

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Matthew 19:16-22

 

[Jay T]

What commandments existed prior to the Law that was given to the Israelites?

Every one of the 10 commandments can be found in the book of Genesis.

The first time that the Sabbath was kept was by Moses and the Israelites as recorded in Exodus 16.

Perhaps you never read what the 4th commandment said ?
"REMEMBER the sabbath day, to keep it holy".....and then, God goes on....to tell 'WHEN' it was established.

No one before the Law kept the Sabbath as was given to Moses in the Law.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The Law did not exist prior to the Israelites exodus from Egypt.

The Bible tells us that without law....thee is no sin (Romans 4:15).

How could Adam and Eve have committed sin....without law ?

 

[Solo]

What commandments existed prior to the Law that was given to the Israelites?

Every one of the 10 commandments can be found in the book of Genesis.

Please list these commandments, and where they are found in Genesis. The word Sabbath is not mentioned in Genesis, and as I stated it isn't mentioned until Exodus 16 when Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt. They did not keep the Sabbath until the Law was given to Moses. The Law was not in effect from Adam to Moses, and it isn't in effect since Jesus.

The first time that the Sabbath was kept was by Moses and the Israelites as recorded in Exodus 16.

Perhaps you never read what the 4th commandment said ?
"REMEMBER the sabbath day, to keep it holy".....and then, God goes on....to tell 'WHEN' it was established.

Perhaps you could show me when that commandment is given prior to the ten commandments, and also when that commandment is given to the Church to keep in the New Testament.

No one before the Law kept the Sabbath as was given to Moses in the Law.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham obeyed the commandments that God gave him to obey. He did not give Abraham the ten commandments to keep. God did not make a covenant with the fathers of those that were in the exodus, as stated in Deuteronomy.

1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. Deuteronomy 5:1-3

According to Ezekiel no one kept the Sabbath until the ten commandments were given after the exodus, and they were given to the Israelites.

10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. 11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. 13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them. 14 But I wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen, in whose sight I brought them out. 15 Yet also I lifted up my hand unto them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands; 16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols. 17 Nevertheless mine eye spared them from destroying them, neither did I make an end of them in the wilderness. Ezekiel 20:10-17

In Nehemiah, we are again assured that God gave the commandment to keep the Sabbath to the Israelites at Mount Sinai, and not before.

13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true F33 laws, good statutes and commandments: 14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant: Nehemiah 9:13-14

Abraham had the promise of God through faith and not of the Law for the Law came 430 years later according to Galatians.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. Galatians 3:16-17

The Law did not exist prior to the Israelites exodus from Egypt.

The Bible tells us that without law....thee is no sin (Romans 4:15).

How could Adam and Eve have committed sin....without law ?

Adam and Eve transgressed the only commandment given them. Thou shalt not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They transgressed this commandment and they sinned. Abraham did not have the Law as did Moses and the Israelites as shown in the scripture above, Galatians 3.

According to Romans you will find that Abraham's faith by grace secured him the promise of God, not the law.

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, Romans 4:15-16

 

[SputnikBoy]

Why did God destroy the antedeluvians, Solo? Because they transgressed the law and were therefore found to be disobedient. What law/s? The Bible doesn't tell us.

Only Noah and his group were saved from the destruction of the world. What exactly were Noah and company being obedient to that the rest of the world were not? We are not told about any specific laws or commands of God but they were obviously in place and were being broken by the majority.

Can we therefore not logically conclude that the Ten Commandments or their equivalent had been given by God to be obeyed? One can't be obedient or disobedient to something that doesn't exist. So, why the argument?

 

[Solo]

Why did God destroy the antedeluvians, Solo? Because they transgressed the law and were therefore found to be disobedient. What law/s? The Bible doesn't tell us.

Only Noah and his group were saved from the destruction of the world. What exactly were Noah and company being obedient to that the rest of the world were not? We are not told about any specific laws or commands of God but they were obviously in place and were being broken by the majority.

Can we therefore not logically conclude that the Ten Commandments or their equivalent had been given by God to be obeyed? One can't be obedient or disobedient to something that doesn't exist. So, why the argument?

The earth was filled with violence and God decided to destroy all except for Noah and his family. Notice that it does not say that the world did not keep his commandments. Apparantly they had no commandments, and apart from God covenanting with mankind through individual covenants, and corporate covenants, mankind is bound to be violent.

13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Genesis 6:13

If they had the Law to follow, or God had covenanted with them as he did with Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and the Church, then he would not have had to destroy the whole population of the earth. There was no Law until Moses. You really need to take off your biased glasses and read the Bible from beginning to end to understand how God has dealt with mankind through the various covenants.

God's Law has been written on our hearts, and it is not the same law that was written on the stone tablets. This Law that was written believers' hearts is much more indepth and spiritual than the Law of Moses. Nothing could save those that were under the Law except their ability to keep the Law. Now we have been given the free gift of Jesus, for he is the only one who can keep the Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law, and through him we are born again.

Simple.

 

[AVBunyan]

Broken record

Just call me a broken record -

If a person thinks they can really lose it then they most likely don't have "it".

If a person really thinks he can lose it then this means he is ignorant as to what took place a Calvary.

I started a thread a while back on "What Happened at Calvary" and got no responsee for several reasons - most likely for the following reasons:
1. Folks were tired of me - I can understand :-D
2. Nobody cared what really hapend at Calvary for their minds were made up or...
3. Nobody really knew and were afraid to admit it.
4. Folks didn't see the thread.

I lean towards #3 myself - I haven't seen a clear presentation of justification by many here yet - especially of those of you who are against this "vile OSAS" doctrine.

At any rate - thinking one can lose it reveals a person:

1. Will not take Paul as his authority but will go prior to Calvary to get his or her's doctrine.
2. Is trusting in their own self-righteousness to get them to glory.
3. Is ignorant of their real depravity - they actually think they have a spark of good in them that just needs to be flamed by the gospel and then by their great faith and choice become a "christian".

Have a nice day

 

[Jay T]

What commandments existed prior to the Law that was given to the Israelites?

Every one of the 10 commandments can be found in the book of Genesis.

Please list these commandments, and where they are found in Genesis.

#1.) Genesis 35:2-4
#2.) Gen. 31:19-24
#3.) Gen. 12:3
#4.) Exodus 20:20:8-11 (the very words, pointing back to Genesis 2:2,3)
#5.) Gen. 9:2o-25
#6.) Gen. 4:8-15
#7.) Gen. 39:9
#8.) Gen. 44:8,16
#9.) Gen. 27:12
#10.) Gen. 25:29-34 & Genesis 27

The word Sabbath is not mentioned in Genesis, and as I stated it isn't mentioned until Exodus 16 when Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt.

That does not alter the fact the Christ made the 7th day HOLY, and put His blessing upon that day in creation week (Genesis 2:2,3)

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham obeyed the commandments that God gave him to obey. He did not give Abraham the ten commandments to keep. God did not make a covenant with the fathers of those that were in the exodus, as stated in Deuteronomy.

End og 2nd commandment says this....Exodus 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments(Hebrew word-Mitsvaw).
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments (Hebrew word- Mitsvaw), my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham had the promise of God through faith and not of the Law for the Law came 430 years later according to Galatians.

The Law did not exist prior to the Israelites exodus from Egypt.

The Bible tells us that without law....thee is no sin (Romans 4:15).

How could Adam and Eve have committed sin....without law ?

[quote:e7bec]
Adam and Eve transgressed the only commandment given them. Thou shalt not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They transgressed this commandment and they sinned.

They broke, "Thou shalt not steal".....
"Thou shalt not covet"

According to Romans you will find that Abraham's faith by grace secured him the promise of God, not the law.

[/quote:e7bec]You don't realize then....that grace of God only came about because...the law was broken in the first place ?

Had the Law never been broken, grace would not have been neccesary, as grace only appeared on the scene, 'AFTER' man committed sin....neither would the death, burial, resurrection of Christ.....had the Law always been kept.

 

[SputnikBoy]

[quote="Solo]Jesus fulfilled the Law, and through him we are born again.

Simple.

So, what is the difference between a Christian and a nonChristian ...lip service only?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Re: Broken record

Just call me a broken record -

If a person thinks they can really lose it then they most likely don't have "it".

If a person really thinks he can lose it then this means he is ignorant as to what took place a Calvary.

I started a thread a while back on "What Happened at Calvary" and got no responsee for several reasons - most likely for the following reasons:
1. Folks were tired of me - I can understand :-D
2. Nobody cared what really hapend at Calvary for their minds were made up or...
3. Nobody really knew and were afraid to admit it.
4. Folks didn't see the thread.

I lean towards #3 myself - I haven't seen a clear presentation of justification by many here yet - especially of those of you who are against this "vile OSAS" doctrine.

At any rate - thinking one can lose it reveals a person:

1. Will not take Paul as his authority but will go prior to Calvary to get his or her's doctrine.
2. Is trusting in their own self-righteousness to get them to glory.
3. Is ignorant of their real depravity - they actually think they have a spark of good in them that just needs to be flamed by the gospel and then by their great faith and choice become a "christian".

Have a nice day

"If a person thinks they can really lose it then they most likely don't have 'it'."

Or, alternatively, if a person really believes they CAN'T lose it then they may just as likely not have 'it' either, perhaps? I remember a practicing prostitute on the Phil Donahue Show some years back coming up with the OSAS tag. She really believed what she was saying. Was she right or wrong?

What I see problematic is the terminology itself. 'Once Saved - Always Saved' sends a false message to the 'not so bright' of which there are many. The promoting of this doctrine in the manner of 'one can live like the devil as long as one gives regular lip service' is irresponsible at best and destructive at worst. This silly misrepresentation of OSAS is possibly leading many people astray because they don't know any better.

So many of the supporters of OSAS seem to be more absorbed in 'self' than they are on the well-being of others. So, if the 'more scholarly' among us can look beyond themselves for a few seconds ...just think about it from the other person's perspective. Caution is required when promoting this man-made term (OSAS) as opposed to one's using it with such irresponsible abandon.

 

[Solo]

Jesus fulfilled the Law, and through him we are born again.

Simple.

So, what is the difference between a Christian and a nonChristian ...lip service only?

Being born again. Plain and simple. You ought to study this aspect of Christianity.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Many people don't understand what 'being born again' means. They seem to have no concept of this 'new creation'.

 

[xicali]

Many people don't understand what 'being born again' means. They seem to have no concept of this 'new creation'.

Hi Merry Menagerie

I agree and second that motion. MM could you please start a thread on
what 'being born again' means. I believe OSAS can be grasped more easily once 'being born again' really means.


u r Blessed

xicali

 

[Guest]

Many people don't understand what 'being born again' means. They seem to have no concept of this 'new creation'.

There is no being born again, its all a feeley feeley expeirence. Get the goosebumps because you think God died for you and since every believer is almost at the most pathetic and empty place in there lives when they become born again, a shot of love makes you feel better and loved, which all you are craving anyway. After you are "born again" who is really making the choices in your life, you are. All this is is a spiritual awakening, we can thank God for that, but to say its Jesus, I doubt it. How many other religions and stuff do they have that people go through this same experience, but yet there's is wrong because of who they think God is? Every other person that has a spiritual awakening is not really feeling or experincing this because its not Jesus?, honestly think about it and if you can say other people who do have spiritual awakening are fake because of what they may believe God is not jesus then you really need to open your eyes to life.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

YOu are so way off it's scary!

 

[Solo]

Many people don't understand what 'being born again' means. They seem to have no concept of this 'new creation'.

There is no being born again, its all a feeley feeley expeirence. Get the goosebumps because you think God died for you and since every believer is almost at the most pathetic and empty place in there lives when they become born again, a shot of love makes you feel better and loved, which all you are craving anyway. After you are "born again" who is really making the choices in your life, you are. All this is is a spiritual awakening, we can thank God for that, but to say its Jesus, I doubt it. How many other religions and stuff do they have that people go through this same experience, but yet there's is wrong because of who they think God is? Every other person that has a spiritual awakening is not really feeling or experincing this because its not Jesus?, honestly think about it and if you can say other people who do have spiritual awakening are fake because of what they may believe God is not jesus then you really need to open your eyes to life.

You may have feeley feeley experiences, but I do not. I have experiences of reality and truth apart from the emotional baggage that rides along with the flesh. Being born again is the only way anyone will enter into the Kingdom of God whether you choose to believe it or not. The words of Jesus have been around for 2000 years. It would do everyone good to listen to them for a change.

1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:1-21

What I find interesting about this scripture is that Jesus points out that without being born again, one can not even see the kingdom of God, let alone enter it. Those that do not believe that one must be born again, does not even see the kingdom of God, and is needy of the savior's touch.
This scripture also reveals that Jesus did not come into the world to condemn the world, but instead to save the world. Jesus points out that those in the world that need to be born again are condemned already because they have not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God. The reason that they have not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God is because they loved darkness instead of the light, as their deeds were evil. Every one that does not come to the light, stays in darkness because they do not want their deeds to be reproved. Those that come to the light believing in the name of the only begotten son of God, come to the light so that their deeds may be known as being wrought in God.

 

[AVBunyan]

MM could you please start a thread on
what 'being born again' means. I believe OSAS can be grasped more easily once 'being born again' really means.

I started one a while back entitled, "What happens at the Point of Justification" - got absolutely no taker and I deleted the thread after 3 days.

Be my guest - try it again someone - may I suggest a title?

"What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvation?

I'd like to see the "lose-its" answer that one!

That would be something to see :o

OK let's find out! I'll start it.

God bless