Merry Menagerie said:
The only work that is required of us is belief. And it's this belief in Jesus is what will fulfill the works of God THROUGH US.
In a way. What's your scriptural support? (And I already know of John 6:29).
However, what works Yahweh wants to do in us is the problem between us. And I believe since people don't wanna submit themselves to Yahweh's Torah, they must form preconditions like this based off their opinion and judge you off of them.
Concepts like "robotism", as one guy was trying to argue with me earlier. Messiah can live in us, but not for us.
The problem with those who do not want to submit themselves to Yahweh's Torah is that they believe if it doesn't come "morally", then it doesn't need to be done.
They always say, "I don't have to look at the commandments to not kill. I don't want to kill".
That's not the point. That's good, but not the point. The point is that Yahweh does give us his Word for us to look in it and be obedient to it because we love him. It doesn't have to come across as a "moral" precept in order for our works to be true obedience.
If you heard Yahweh speak right now and he told you to go build a house made of legos (for whatever reason), would you tell him "no" because building lego houses is not "moral"? Building lego houses is not a "feeling" that comes naturally?
Of course you wouldn't say "no". Same thing with Yahweh's Torah. It's not divided into "moral" and "ceremonial" etc, where you have to figure out which ones are "moral" to perform, or that the "moral" ones will just "flow" through you as "all you have to do".
Nonsense. All of Yahweh's Word is "moral". Why do I say this? Why is something like keeping kosher "moral"?
Because of Matthew 22:37-40. It's about loving Yahweh and just doing what he tells you to do. And when the bible says "love is the fulfilling of the Torah", it doesn't mean a "feeling" replaces all commandments that aren't "moral" and are just "ceremonial".
It's speaking of the Ruach/Spirit behind from which the rest hang. If you participate in what the bible calls "dead works" and lack the main principle (Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18), then the Torah has not been "full" (another accurate translation for the Greek word
pleroo, which is usually translated "fulfil").
Love fills it up. Makes it meaningful. That was Messiah's point in Matthew 22, Mark 12 and Luke 10.
Because I believe in Jesus and because Christ is the one who's living and I'm dead - then I don't murder. I don't steal. I love my neigbour. I love one another (the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts BY THE HOLY GHOST). And the only effort that comes in is the work of God - BELIEF!!!
Well, it all depends on how one understands your words. You're only saying this (forgive me if this is untrue) because you would deny something like the keeping of the sabbath. It's not "moral". It's not something you could "automatically" do without looking at the bible.
But that was never and still is not nor will ever be Yahweh's point! That is not in scripture. From Yahweh's perspective, just doing what he says because you love and believe him is the point. That's the only "moral" principle you need to understand.
And whether that is keeping kosher, keeping the sabbath, wearing tassels, studying to show yourself approved, or offering up your own son, then that's what you have to do.
So no one (not me at least) is boasting of any works ("I do this" and "I do that"). People are just trying to tell some of us that the way of thinking as presented above is wrong. They are not trying to work for salvation, or boast of works, and are not trying to bring people into bondage.
I can tell you right now....that I don't obey any of the commandments. Nope! I don't wake up in the morning and think 'Gee I better not kill anyone today' - I don't have to. Why? Because it's no longer I that liveth but Christ that liveth in me. Christ does not murder so I don't murder because he's the one that's living and not me. Therefore HE FULFILS the law through us and not me.
My exact point, as above. This is no point at all. It's good that you know not to kill. But that has no effect on the whole of what Yahweh commands us. By your logic, we shouldn't be baptized. No one can conclude they need to be baptized without reading the bible.
So this logic fails (no offense). And I personally believe that there are many other wrong things many people would or wouldn't do if there was nothing written. The only reason you say you know what to do is because it's written! "Christ lives in me" is something written in the bible.
If it was left up to me then I'd be doomed and so would you. Anything that YOU DO from your own strength is seen as filthy rags to the Lord. The only works that mean anything are the righteous works of Christ in you - nothing more.
Again, more preconditions upon a believer based off of your own belief system. Our works are only filthy rags if they are for the self, or if we think they will merit us anything apart from Yahweh's righteousness.
But it's not about that. It's about hearing the Word of Yahweh and doing it (Luke 8:21). People take that filthy rags scripture out of context. He wasn't saying "don't obey my Torah because you cannot".
Begin in Isaiah 64, see who that scripture pertains to, and see the reason why that statement was made. Had nothing to do with faithful obedience.
Once you've realised this then you are no longer under a schoolmaster but you are graduated and walking in grace through faith.
David walked in grace and faith and yet kept the Torah. :-D So have many. The schoolmaster reference you are referring to in Galatians I believe you have taken out of context. Paul's writings must be read in the context of all the rest of what he says. We can discuss this, if you want to.
Dead people can't obey anything - they're crucified with Christ (or should be)...it sounds like you are trying to resurrect your flesh and trying to obey the law with this 'flesh' of yours. IF this is what you're doing - then you WILL fail!!!! Good luck with that
Again, more of your preconditions based off of your belief system of "feeling" what to do is right.
It is not about "trying" to obey the Torah! It's about just doing it because he said to do it. If you stumble, repent and pray for forgivness. We have an Advocate with the Father.
"I sin so I will throw out his Torah and just 'believe'" is not in the bible!
