OSAS....Not !

[Merry Menagerie]

Romans 9:11
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calls

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Christ is not is not in us? Just the Holy Spirit? Is God somehow dividable such that one part of him can be in us and the other can not?

Here we go with the trinity thing again...yes, thessalonian, the Father AND the Son AND the Holy Ghost is in us - yes :roll:

Are supposed to say all three when we speak of it? Every single time? Gosh, even God didn't do that! LOL

 

[Heidi]

The Eucharist does not inhabit believers. The Holy Spirit does. Therefore, the eucharist is symbolic and the Holy Spirit is real life. It's not hard to understand.

It's apparent that you do not.

Christ is not is not in us? Just the Holy Spirit? Is God somehow dividable such that one part of him can be in us and the other can not?

Gal 1
20: I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

1 John 4
13: By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit.


27: To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

I suppose this is all symbolic or something.

Do you ever read my posts, Thessalonian? :o Who do you think the Holy Spirit is? The tooth fairy? The Holy Spirit is Christ Jesus inside of us. That is what gives us life, not bread and wine which exit the body.

 

[fiat]

Heidi,
A question. Do you believe that "Holy Spirit" is simply another name for Christ? Or do you believe in one God in three Persons and that the divine Persons do not share the one divinity among themselves, but each of them is God whole and entire? "Now this is the Catholic faith: We worship one God in the Trinity and the Trinity in unity, without either confusing the persons or dividing the substance; for the person of the Father is one, the Son's is another, the Holy Spirit's another; but the Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal" (Athanasian Creed: DS 75; ND 16).

I opened up a certain very beautiful piece of literature known as Ecclesia De Eucharistia last night, and found this passage quite pertinent to the discussion going on here. The Liturgy of St. James dates back to the early, early Church (specifically Jerusalem) http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08371a.htm

The joint and inseparable activity of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, which is at the origin of the Church, of her consolidation and her continued life, is at work in the Eucharist. This was clearly evident to the author of the Liturgy of Saint James: in the epiclesis of the Anaphora, God the Father is asked to send the Holy Spirit upon the faithful and upon the offerings, so that the body and blood of Christ “may be a help to all those who partake of it ... for the sanctification of their souls and bodiesâ€Â.43 The Church is fortified by the divine Paraclete through the sanctification of the faithful in the Eucharist.

24. The gift of Christ and his Spirit which we receive in Eucharistic communion superabundantly fulfils the yearning for fraternal unity deeply rooted in the human heart; at the same time it elevates the experience of fraternity already present in our common sharing at the same Eucharistic table to a degree which far surpasses that of the simple human experience of sharing a meal. Through her communion with the body of Christ the Church comes to be ever more profoundly “in Christ in the nature of a sacrament, that is, a sign and instrument of intimate unity with God and of the unity of the whole human raceâ€Â.44

The seeds of disunity, which daily experience shows to be so deeply rooted in humanity as a result of sin, are countered by the unifying power of the body of Christ. The Eucharist, precisely by building up the Church, creates human community.

 

[thessalonian]

The Eucharist does not inhabit believers. The Holy Spirit does. Therefore, the eucharist is symbolic and the Holy Spirit is real life. It's not hard to understand.

It's apparent that you do not.

Christ is not is not in us? Just the Holy Spirit? Is God somehow dividable such that one part of him can be in us and the other can not?

Gal 1
20: I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

1 John 4
13: By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit.


27: To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

I suppose this is all symbolic or something.

Do you ever read my posts, Thessalonian? :o Who do you think the Holy Spirit is? The tooth fairy? The Holy Spirit is Christ Jesus inside of us. That is what gives us life, not bread and wine which exit the body.

Why does my expressing my beliefs threaten you so much that you reply with condescention and sarcasm. Are you so superior to me that you have to respond to me in this fashion. Thus far I have not said what you believe is stupid. I have only pointed out where you distort what I believe. Now we can discuss the merrits of mine vs. yours if you like. But so far I have just been pointing out to you that you don't know enough about what I believe to make the expert sounding statements that you make. I simply ask that you quit distorting it and expecting me to remain silent about your distortions.

Blessings

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Hi: I hope you'll pardon my barging in...this term you have bolded- why have you bolded it? It is not in the scripture quote. Are you emphasizing your interpretation of the quote?

What is it that this bread and wine represent, in your understanding?

I have already answered this question a little ways back. Instead of repeating myself again, feel free to go back and read it.

In the time it took you to type that short dismissive, you could have given me the Cliff's notes.

And while we're on the topic, a second question, if I may: If Christ only symbolically inhabits the Eucharist, is it also true then that He only symbolically inhabits believers?

Understand it as you will.

Why even bother responding if you're going to do a "whatever, man."

What you have said is very true at one level, for religion or irreligion, denomination or denomintion- they are all involving and filled with mankind. It is believed by Protestants that God inspired the bible and their reading of it. It is believed by Catholics and Orthodox that God inspired the writing and canonization of the bible, and inspired the corporate reading of the bible. So while it is men who preach and write and preside, if the Spirit does not inspire and guide, you might as well be at a Kiwanis meeting.

It's only complicated when you look for regulation. Again - understand it as you will.

Who said anything about complicated or regulation? I spoke of human nature.
You can't be bothered to speak in anything other than the ejculations of a bored adolescent?

A word about religion: this word has become a dirty word in our day, owing to the posturing of the Pietists and the enthronement of individuality within the Western culture. The root word of religion means 'cling together." This would be a good thing, for this is the prayer of Christ, that all of His would be One. There seem to be some religious sensibilities that result in further fracturing; I submit Fundamentalist Protestantism as one of those, and post-modernist liberal Christianity as another.

You can submit what you like. Only Christ is righteous though.

Do you respond in person with grunts and clicks? Why even bother responding with these 'whatevers'??

It is indeed possible, but not desirable, in the ultimate sense.

You speak only from what you understand.

Unlike others who speak over their head.

Was it not Christ who told his apostles to rejoice for he would be joining his father soon? Was it not desirable to leave the group to be with the Father?

Only in the sense that He returned and is returning. He said clearly that He would be with them always. THAT is desirable.

Those who seek comfort in their Christianity are not truly seeking Christ. Desire can be manipulated by the enemy.

Who spoke of comfort and ease, and why the cliches?

God has done a great many things only once. He was crucified once, resurrected once, picked Twelve Apostles once, Incarnated once, baptized once.

And notice all these things had to do with Jesus's works - not man's.

So what. It was you that asked the question

Since when did God only do things once when it comes to faith?

...and got an answer. Of course the answer doesn't satisfy, for the question itself was foolish and off target.

The quote 'faith delivered once for all the saints' is not interpretation, but scripture.

It was not displayed as such (no inverted commas or bible reference) so I took it as the original author's opinion.

As you're fond of saying, "Take it as you will."

but what you fail to acknowledge is that the intent of scripture, doctrine and the like is to limit us, not Him. He can save who He wants, how He wants, but once I have read "forgive that you might be forgiven," I am held to that.

As I am held too, only not by my hand or will, but by Christ's. The scriptures aren't about more bondage for mankind, but freedom to love God as God intended.

What post-modernist nonsense. The New Testament servant is a bond servant-one of choice and love, but a slave nonetheless. "Let us cast off our fetters" they say as they dress in the fetters of modernism.

Today, I see people quoting bible at each other, as if to control the other with the bible- when clearly it was intended as a fence around our own lives.

Another barrier. Man is his own barrier to God, whether we are in Christ or not.

What you see as a barrier I see as fealty to the Beloved. I do not share in your 21st century platitudes because they are as filled with meaning as a "Have a nice day" T-shirt.

 

[Klee shay]

Orthadox Christian...

Matthew 11

15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

16. But wherunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows.

17. And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

18. For John came niether eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

19. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

You can pipe to me and you can mourn your sorrows for my lack of understanding, but I will neither dance or lament to your empty calls.

I only have ears for the Good Shepherd's voice.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Orthadox Christian...

Matthew 11

15. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

16. But wherunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows.

17. And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

18. For John came niether eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

19. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

You can pipe to me and you can mourn your sorrows for my lack of understanding, but I will neither dance or lament to your empty calls.

I have only have ears for the Good Shepherd's voice.

Good for you. When He calls you to Judgement, I pray you are wise enough not to respond to Him "whatever, man."

 

[Klee shay]

Like I said Orthadox Christian - I only have ears for the Good Shepherd.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

The sheep hear His voice and they follow Him. Nicely done Klee Shay

 

[thessalonian]

...



I only have ears for the Good Shepherd's voice.

Do you suppose that there are those who think they have ears for the shepherds voice but really don't? I've known Mormons and JW's who quote John 10 and think they are the ones who only have ears for the shepherds voice. Are Mormons and JW's Christians? How about gays who think they hear the Lord's voice that says their homosexual acts are okay?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Jesus knows who his sheep are and I put my faith in him

 

[thessalonian]

Jesus knows who his sheep are and I put my faith in him

He does. That is true. The oneness Jesus is a false Jesus however so all bets on the faith you put in him are off. I'm not your judge however. The Mormons of course say they put such faith as yours in him as well. They do not know him any better.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

The sheep hear His voice and they follow Him. Nicely done Klee Shay

Now I've seen it all: back-slaps and high fives for rudeness and backpedalling out of a discussion.

Yes, way to hightail it out of there, bucko.

:smt039

 

[Klee shay]

Thess I am not going to get into the debate about who exactly hears the Lord's voice. If God indeed does work in mysterious ways...then who are we to judge with such certainty, the hearts of men?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

My concern is Jesus - what others do doesn't concern me. I speak up when God puts it on my heart to speak up and I shut up when God tells me to shut up.

Orthodox Christian - I actually find your manner very rude! Is there a reason you speak in such a condescending and rude way to people?

 

[Klee shay]

Who is bucko and where are they going exactly? If there was a point to your post Orthadox Christian, it wasn't exactly clear. Rather than clog up this discussion with any more comments which do not directly relate to OSAS, feel free to PM the person those comments relate to.

 

[thessalonian]

Thess I am not going to get into the debate about who exactly hears the Lord's voice. If God indeed does work in mysterious ways...then who are we to judge with such certainty, the hearts of men?

I do not judge the hearts of men. That is not my poitn. The point is that where they are in error, and I would hope you would agree that they are, they have not heard his voice. So anyone can say "my sheep hear my voice" and apply it to themselves and "feel good" about themselves. There are many Protestants on this board who believe OSAS and believe the Mormons are all damned to hell (I don't by the way) and even believe that I am damned to hell. MM says I am in bad shape. Don't know what that means. I find it very interesting how many flavors of protestants there are on this board contradicting eachother. Your but another flavor. You don't really know the truth that was delivered "once for all to the saints". Your all just wingin it.

Blessings

 

[Klee shay]

The point is that where they are in error, and I would hope you would agree that they are, they have not heard his voice. So anyone can say "my sheep hear my voice" and apply it to themselves and "feel good" about themselves.

I do not know anyone is in error unless they say they do not believe in Christ. I do not know God. I seek him but I do not know him. Being a continual student of the Lord's Holy Spirit, that makes me inferior in understanding until the Holy Spirit defines an absolute truth I cannot deny.

Even that absolute truth however, is constantly being built upon. It is the milk and the meat analogy Paul has referred to. You cannot give a new Christian meat straight away, for they first need to digest the milk.

I am not a teacher of how to be a faithful servant to the Lord; I am merely a student learning who he is.

Your but another flavor. You don't really know the truth that was delivered "once for all to the saints". Your all just wingin it.

I am another flavour of the Lord. You're right, I don't really know the truth as Christ understands it...I am winging it...but not alone.

My belief is that the truth delivered "once for all to the saints" was Christ. He was truth - crucified for being truth, buried in truth and then resurrected to send forth the Comforter to guide us into all truths. I have to wing-it to understand who he is? It's easy to buy into a religion but it's harder to see where Christ stands in my life with such a distraction.

Please understand that I am not specifically saying "your" religion. I am saying any religion.

 

[Wildfowler]

Please forgive me if this has already been mentioned here in this topic.

What about the lesson we learn from Acts 8 regarding Simon the sorcerer. We know that Simon believed and was baptized. Later, we know that Simon sinned and we are told that his heart was not right in the sight of God which occurred even after he first believed and was baptized.

Peter instructs Simon to REPENT and CONFESS, by praying to God that he will be forgiven of his sin. I can only imagine what the consequence would be for Simon if God does not forgive him of this sin described in Acts 8. Simon is so seemingly scared of what might happen to him, that he asks Peter to pray to God for him.

Doesn't this passage in fact teaches us today that if we ever let our hearts become "not right in the sight of God" even after we are considered a believer, that we must take the same steps of Simon to make our hearts right before the sight of God or else face the same consequences of God not forgiving us of this sin?

What would have happened to Simon, a believer, if God would not forgive him of his sin? What happens to anyone who's sins are not forgiven? The verses that were cited in the first post of this discussion are certainly being validated by the teaching from Peter that we find here in Acts 8. There are consequences in the life of a believer who's heart has for some reason now become "not right in the sight of the God". There is surely salvation available to the believer, but we must MAKE and KEEP/RESTORE our hearts as "right in the sight of God" to have salvation.

The demons believe and they tremble.