J
Jesse
Guest
We would get more responsibility, more talents, more spiritual gifts....
Commentaries tell me it means rewards, but the verses they give don't substantiate their claim.
What am I missing?
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OSAS The Truth
- Thread starter Rollo Tamasi
- Start date
Commentaries tell me it means rewards, but the verses they give don't substantiate their claim.
What am I missing?
veryberry
Member
The context of these verses are doctrine. Are you teaching the correct doctrine? what is the correct doctrine should we be teaching?
Are you teaching the correct gospel for todays dispensation?
2 Tim 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
veryberry
Member
We, the body of Christ, will be positioned in the governmental structure in heavenly places with Christ as head. We will be replacing the corrupt governmental structures in the heavenly places that are now run by satan. I.E. - principalities, powers, dominions, etc...Israel will fill the governmental structure on earth with Christ as king.
veryberry
Member
YES!Salvation is not based on our performance, but on the performance of Christ Jesus. It is Christ who died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day for our justification. Faith and faith alone, not faith and a changed life. Most believers never change do to corrupt doctrine being taught today.
If believers understood, that they are dead to sin, alive unto God, dead to the law, and were taught correctly according to the revelation of the mystery that Paul taught, you would see much change. But even Paul said that there would be a time when men would not endure sound doctrine. People want to mix Israels doctrine in with our doctrine, and things get all confusing. If people would learn how to rightly divide the word of truth, this confusion would disappear.
J
Jesse
Guest
I don't think we all will be doing that.
Who are we governing if all the saved are ruling with Him?
veryberry
Member
Angels
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
If you don't confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, because you don't believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, then you won't be saved.
- Jesus taught that those who believe are saved.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
- Jesus also taught that some will believe for awhile.
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13
Jesus said those who endure to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13
Paul also taught the same principle of continuing to believe to the end.
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.Colossians 1:21-23
... if indeed you continue in the faith
How do you interpret if indeed you continue in the faith?
If someone no longer believes, and they willing depart from the faith, then the very faith that caused them to be saved in the first place, no longer exist's, likewise the salvation that was a result of them believing no longer exists.
Hebrews warns us as well -
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3;12-14
To become a partaker of Christ, we must hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.
To the end.
There are many more admonitions from the New Testament writers about this subject.
OSAS is no where to be found in the bible.
One must "read into" the scriptures with a preconceived idea to "assume" such a doctrine.
JLB
There isn't any sin which Jesus can't forgive or we can say it which can't be cleansed by his precious blood. Now the matter is if that a believer of Christ who continues to sleep with his mother-in-law didn't repent yet, does he still continues to sit in heaven
smaller
Member
Cited this fact:
2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
In the above fact Paul was OSAS. The messenger of Satan, under Gods Wrath and eternally damned.
It's pointless to see only Paul when that was not the case.
Accurate sight of both parties should clear anyone's sight in these matters.
Jesse said this:
"If someone was given much here and did well, then their reward might be to rule with Christ - as an example."
"If someone was given much here and did well, then their reward might be to rule with Christ - as an example."
Actually, it does. 2 Tim 2:12. If we endure, we will reign with Him. But if we deny Him (don't endure), He will deny us (the privilege of reigning with Him)
It's there, all right. It's just no different than what Isaiah wrote in 6:9-10, and quoted by Luke in Acts 28 and John in his gospel.
Acts 28:26-27
26saying, ‘Go to this people and say, “You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; And you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; 27For the heart of this people has become dull, And with their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes; Otherwise they might see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.”’
Paul defined who the "called" are in Romans 1:5,6,7 and 8:28,30. He also defined what God's gifts are in 5:15,17 and 6:23.
So 11:29 is irrefutable as OSAS. God's gifts and calling are irrevocable.
But, as Isaiah said, some have eyes that don't see and ears that don't hear. Please don't close your eyes to the truth. If you would open them, you would understand with your heart.
He'll sit on the sidelines. No rewards, will not rule with Christ.
What did Paul tell the Corinthian church about the man who did have sex with his m-i-l? "I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh (sin unto physical death), so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
Paul fully believed that if the man didn't repent, he would be killed by Satan. Yet, his spirit would be saved.
Jesse, I think the greatest reward we could get is to stand there with Jesus as he tells us all that we did for him while here on earth.
He will show us all the things we did out of unconditional love that had an impact of peoples lives.
And more.
And then he will say, "well done oh faithful servant".
And the more we have done, the greater that reward will be.
You've misquoted the passage.
"if we endure, we will reign with him".
That relates to staying with Christ to the end, which includes everyone that is saved.
It has nothing to do with the works we do here on earth.
Recall what else Jesus said in the parable of the talents, after He said 'well done, oh faithful servant'. He gave authority over 10 cities, 5 cities. And there are the 5 different crowns, that are rewards. And reigning with Christ is most definitely a reward for faithful service. Those believers who haven't been faithful/obedient will lose out on these rewards.
That's why there will be tears that God will have to "wipe away". Rev 21:4
First of all it's ridiculous to assume that the person who continues to sin by having sex with his mother-in-law and doesn't repent and when this guy dies he will sit in sidelines without any reward in the heaven. The matter is if he could ever seen heaven forget about entering into it.
Here comes the turn and the twists. When Paul said that he would deliver such one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh then it means that the Holy Spirit by the pen of the Paul doesn't want to put an hedge upon such man's life and will give full opportunity to Satan to oppress him. Note that all believers are under supernatural protection of God. As the Prophet Job was protected so are we. So the question of such kind of soul being saved is twisted.
I misquoted nothing. I quoted the passage and gave explanation. Reigning with Christ is a reward for "enduring", which does mean "to the end". And the denial is that reward, of reigning with Him for those who haven't endured.
The Bible gives examples of those who have believed but didn't endure to the end. And are no verses about loss of salvation.
In fact, what is irrefutable is that God's gifts and calling are irrevocable. Rom 11:29. And Paul defined who are the "called" (Rom 1;5,6,7, 8:28,30) and what God's gifts are (Rom 5:15-17, 6:23). These are irrevocable.
Maybe it's ridiculous in your mind only. But not to Scripture. Paul's comment about the man in 1 Cor 5 should clarify the point for you. He was turning the man over to Satan for the "destruction of the flesh" or physical death, so that his sould would be saved. How isn't that clear?
I don't underestand what you mean by "could ever seen heaven".
Uh, quite a bit more than "oppress him". The destruction of the flesh clearly indicated physical death.
Yep. So what? Are you not aware of God's wrath against sin, for both believer and unbeliever?
Would you say that Job was protected, or what?
I wouldn't criticize what Paul wrote as twisted. It is very clear. The man was turned over to Satan for death but his soul would be saved.
And, Paul nailed the issue of OSAS in Romans by defining who are the called (Rom 1:5,6,7, 8:28,30) and what God's gifts are (Rom 5:15,17, 6:23), before he penned 11:29 - "the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable".
This is irrefutable.