OSAS The Truth

[FreeGrace]

I have no idea why the tempter is discounted in any scriptural equations unless the tempter inspires people to do so.

Why should the tempter be "counted" in any Scriptural equations? Please explain.

 

[FreeGrace]

God won't be blessing or OSASing the tempter or his activities in anyone, believers first and foremost.

So what? OSAS applies only to human beings. Those who have believed in Christ for eternal life.

Bringing up the devil or his messengers is totally irrelevant to OSAS. It has no place at all.

 

[smaller]

Why should the tempter be "counted" in any Scriptural equations? Please explain.

Satan is also moved into actions via the Word of God, to resist same. That resistance transpires within people, and yes in believers as well. Why do you think the churches are so fractured? Are you willing to entirely discount that activity?

It is rather pointless to see otherwise.

We do have spiritual enemies. Most are not used to pinpointing the location of said enemies as being between our own two ears.

 

[smaller]

So what? OSAS applies only to human beings. Those who have believed in Christ for eternal life.

Bringing up the devil or his messengers is totally irrelevant to OSAS. It has no place at all.

That will have to be your opinion. I do not insulate myself from having temptation of the tempter transpire within. And I think any honest believer would come to the same conclusion.

 

[FreeGrace]

Satan is also moved into actions via the Word of God, to resist same. That resistance transpires within people, and yes in believers as well. Why do you think the churches are so fractured? Are you willing to entirely discount that activity?

This is irrelevant to OSAS.

We do have spiritual enemies. Most are not used to pinpointing the location of said enemies as being between our own two ears.

Again, irrelevant to the discussion of OSAS.

 

[smaller]

This is irrelevant to OSAS.


Again, irrelevant to the discussion of OSAS.

I think we can all be assured that the evil present with Paul was NOT OSAS.

You are welcome to believe otherwise.

 

[FreeGrace]

That will have to be your opinion.

Thanks for permission.

I do not insulate myself from having temptation of the tempter transpire within.

What does this mean? I have no clue what you're trying to communicate.

And I think any honest believer would come to the same conclusion.

What is this "same conclusion"?

The vagueness of your posts makes it impossible to follow your line of thought.

 

[FreeGrace]

I think we can all be assured that the evil present with Paul was NOT OSAS.

You are welcome to believe otherwise.

In fact, I don't believe otherwise. But you are welcome to continue to bring up totally irrelevant ideas about evil within anyone.

Why do you think anyone would apply OSAS to evil? That would be absurd.

 

[smaller]

Thanks for permission.


What does this mean? I have no clue what you're trying to communicate.


What is this "same conclusion"?

The vagueness of your posts makes it impossible to follow your line of thought.

Freewillers have a particularly difficult time coming to grips with the reality of internal temptation thoughts inserted by another party that is not them.

I don't really have a reaction to their failure to grasp a simple principle other than to say they are not allowed to realize it.

 

[smaller]

James 3:
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

 

[gr8grace3]

Why do you think anyone would apply OSAS to evil? That would be absurd.

Because in the end of the elusive posts and theories, the believer is taken over by evil and the believer is considered to be evil, and evil does not fall under OSAS. Just another slick way of telling us that we can lose salvation. IMO.

 

[Deborah13]

If one allows another to act, then that one has permitted another to act. Different words but the same idea.


She didn't use either word, but the concept is still the same. If you chose to smoke in front of her, and she didn't stop you, then she was giving you permission to smoke.

You just proved my point. Thank you.
This is why I think God gets a bum rap.

Permission
synonyms:authorization, consent, leave, authority, sanction, license, dispensation, assent, acquiescence, agreement, approval, seal/stamp of approval, approbation, endorsement, blessing, imprimatur, clearance, allowance, tolerance, sufferance, empowerment;
Allow
syn: allow, permit, let imply granting or conceding the right of someone to do something. allow suggests passivity or even oversight; it points to the absence of an attempt or intent to hinder: The baby-sitter allowed the children to run around the house. permit implies a more positive or willing consent; it is often used of a formal authorization: Bicycle riding is not permitted in this park. let is a familiar, conversational term used in a similar sense: My parents let me stay up late.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/allow

So I see there is a difference depending on the event.
My mom was not giving her Approval, she didn't want me to smoke. But she was willing to Allow me to do that rather than be sneaking around behind her back. To her, lying and sneaking was a worse habit to form than smoking. And she was a teen once and was very of aware of the whole 'forbidden fruit' concept. It worked.

 

[smaller]

Because in the end of the elusive posts and theories, the believer is taken over by evil and the believer is considered to be evil, and evil does not fall under OSAS. Just another slick way of telling us that we can lose salvation. IMO.

There is nothing elusive about it whatsoever. God will not be blessing the evil of any man no matter what kind of religious paint they put on.

If anything the history of mankind is, from the spiritual perspective, a history of mankind and DEVILS.

 

[Chopper]

.

I don't recommend Calvins teaching to anyone.

But Chopper, could you please address 2 things for me.

You told Jesse that no one knows who the elect are. How did Calvin know about the Pope or the Priests?

And this~~

Calvin expressed his position as part of the elect.

Thanks for your questions. 1. During the Reformation, a lot of information came out, especially from Luther that painted a very dim opinion of the Roman system of theology. Most of that theology was against Scripture which was rejected by those great men of God. Luther especially knew of the inner truth of just how satanic their practices and dogma were because he was part of the RCC for years until he was delivered from RCC by the Scripture, "the just shall live by faith." Calvin knew, without a doubt, that the Roman Church was a false religion, therefore he also knew that they were not numbered amongst the Elect.

2. In all of my study of Calvin's writings, I have not come across a mention by Calvin that he considered part of the Elect. I could be wrong, so, if you could supply me with a statement from him, I'll have to rethink Calvin's estimation of himself. If he did, I'd consider that statement as pure pride.

 

[Chopper]

It is greasy grace for many, and I saw it first hand, 10's of 1,000's people saw it all around the world. My thought is that maybe God showed us the fallacy of this "elect" doctrine by what happened with the church. Many things have come out since. If a person realizes their salvation is sacred, I don't think he and others would have done what they did.

I think that everyone needs to remember that true biblical Salvation has produced consistent fruit or "works" that demonstrate the reality of a truthful profession and justification from sin. Bearing daily, the fruit of the Holy Spirit, is the only real way I know of, to know if I or someone else is biblically saved. The fact that thousands of people stomp on the Grace of God, only convinces me that they are heathen, not Christians and never were, no matter what comes out of their mouth.

 

[Jesse]

I think that everyone needs to remember that true biblical Salvation has produced consistent fruit or "works" that demonstrate the reality of a truthful profession and justification from sin. Bearing daily, the fruit of the Holy Spirit, is the only real way I know of, to know if I or someone else is biblically saved. The fact that thousands of people stomp on the Grace of God, only convinces me that they are heathen, not Christians and never were, no matter what comes out of their mouth.

Hi Chopper,

I understand what you are saying, but the man was saved, maybe he remains in that state and God is still working on him, and the others involved. There is no doubt in my mind that this man took advantage of God's grace and did what he did.

What is irritating to me is when people justify another person's behavior by claiming "they were never saved", NO, they WERE saved and they CHOSE to sin. Our free will still exists, we can still get pride, the pride can still build up so much that a person CAN become so entwined in their own actions, they grow cold towards God.

As a Church, we need to stop justifying people's sins by claiming they aren't saved, and confronting it instead. That's what they tried to do to this man, but his pride is built up to overflowing, so much so that he has pushed God away (for now anyway, I don't know what will happen in the future with him).

If he knew that taking advantage of God's grace could mean spiritual death, and others, then they would not do what they do.

 

[Malachi]

What do you mean when you say, "God does not arbitrarily harden hearts, and some sinners are not predestined for Hell." Are you saying the Some sinners are predestined for Hell? If so, which ones are they, scripture please.

According to Five Point Calvinism some sinners are predestined for Heaven and some sinners are predestined for Hell.

According to Scripture no sinners are predestined for Hell. Clear enough?

 

[Gregg]

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

"the body is dead by means of [on account of] of sin;" Sin was only the intermediate cause of death. It was because of Adams disobedience that the LORD sentenced his body of flesh to death. [I might add, Adam's spirit had already died by the time the LORD found him hiding in the garden, before the LORD sentenced his physical body to return to dust.]

I wouldn't see Adam's initial problem as any different than anyone else's.

Adam's initial problem was not sin, but that he fell from his first love. Adam fell out of love with the LORD, and then decided to disobey Him. Adam exercised disobedience in such a way as to attempt to know the LORD according to his flesh. No man will now the LORD through the agency of his flesh, as God is Spirit; and as He is known spiritually through the Spirit of God.

Mk 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

There is no reason for me not to accept Paul's statement of fact regarding a messenger of Satan in his flesh. It would be torturing the text to try to get it to not say what it says.

Except if you understand the Scriptures you sight below, which do not support your claim.

As to supporting scripture have already cited several corresponding scriptures including Romans 7:17-21, Romans 9:19-21, 1 Tim. 1:15, 2 Tim. 2:20-21, 1 John 1:8, 1 John 3:8, Hebrews 5:14, 10:22, etc etc.

You point to these Scripture to prove Satan or his messenger can dwell within the flesh of a believer:

- Rom 7:17-22 Twice Paul said sin dwells in his flesh, but never Satan. There, he was not referring to a thorn in the flesh.
- Rom 9:19:21 Not even remotely supporting your claim; but it does support God's sovereignty over man's heart.
- 1Tim 1:15 Not even remotely supporting your claim; but it does say Christ came to save sinners.
- 2Tim 2:20-21 Directly counter your claim; as these verses talk about a vessel that can be pure, honorable, sanctified,

useful, and prepared.​

- 1Jn 1:8 Not even remotely supporting your claim; but it does say truth is not in the one who deceitfully claims he has no sin.
- 1Jn 3:8 it says "The one practicing sin is of the Devil;" but not that the devil is in him; big difference.
- Heb 5:14 Not even remotely supporting your claim
-Heb 10:22 "let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, our hearts having been sprinkled from an evil conscience,

and our body having been washed in pure water;" (Heb 10:22 LITV). Evil conscience does not equal messenger of Satan.​

Please take a pause and re-think your stance on this matter.

Believers ARE tempted internally in mind and heart by Satan. This is a fact and that fact places the adversary 'within.'

There is no escaping the scriptural logic.

Brother, it seems you have escaped both Scripture and logic. I hope your desire to know the truth is greater that your desire to be right.

Believers are tempted externally through the senses, and externally by 3rd party lies; but internally by lust and deceit. If you allow sin to conceive in you [in your heart or in your mind], it is because you have made a choice to sin.

 

[FreeGrace]

Freewillers have a particularly difficult time coming to grips with the reality of internal temptation thoughts inserted by another party that is not them.

How do you know what freewillers have a difficult time with?

Anyone who is familiar with Scripture should be well aware of where our temptations come from. James 1.

 

[FreeGrace]

Because in the end of the elusive posts and theories, the believer is taken over by evil and the believer is considered to be evil, and evil does not fall under OSAS. Just another slick way of telling us that we can lose salvation. IMO.

Thanks for clearing up what smaller seemed unable to do.