OSAS The Truth

[Gregg]

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil;

You can slice away sin being of the devil anyway you please. The corroborating evidence isn't going away nor is Paul coming back for a rewrite saying that a messenger of Satan was not in his flesh according to your wishes.

I do not disagree that some sin is of the devil, but a man's sin is not of the devil; it is of himself. When you confess sins to the LORD, do you confess your sins or the devil's sins? [that is a rhetorical question just in case]

Yes, 1Jn 3:8 says the one practicing sin is of the devil; but it does not indicate or insinuate what you are claiming, that the devil or his messengers can indwell believers.

Your corroborating evidence isn't just going to appear; not from the Scriptures. At some point you must pause and actually read the Scriptures you are quoting. Read them slow and with prayer.

The more you pursue this, the deeper you are getting.

 

[JLB]

New American Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
grace~~χάριτι/chariti and Gift~~δῶρον/dōron are not the same Greek words.

And Actually I do say that the Grace is a gift and I believe the Greek language tells us this.

Grace and faith are both in the feminine gender. notice that Semi- colon in the sentence? That is a break in the original language. Right after that Semi-colon we have the near demonstrative pronoun "and that" and it is in the neuter gender,so it does not refer back to grace or faith. "That" would be in the feminine gender if "that" was referring back to grace and faith. "That" refers back to the entire realm of salvation. The Grace,the Faith and salvation is the gift of God.
Here is the catch with the faith concerning all men. Our personal freewill mustard seed of faith does not save us. The Holy Spirit steps in and makes our weak,human freewill faith effectual for salvation(a gift). We do not make it effectual for salvation.2 Cor 6:2 NASB


Like the irrevocable gift of eternal life, you completely ignore the aorist tense of believe in Acts 16:31

Where does Ephesians 2:8 say that eternal life is an irrevocable gift?


8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

The phrase irrevocable gift of eternal life does not appear in this verse.

This phrase "irrevocable gift of eternal life" is not found in the bible.

It is man made.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

When believers of any sort start thinking they are entirely and only right and never evil acting or thinking

This isn't even close to the discussion at hand.

or they excuse their evil [in any form] on the basis of OSAS they have at least one foot in a theological graveyard.

Nor this.

 

[FreeGrace]

Where does Ephesians 2:8 say that eternal life is an irrevocable gift?


8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

The phrase irrevocable gift of eternal life does not appear in this verse.

This phrase "irrevocable gift of eternal life" is not found in the bible.

It is man made.


JLB

How come you ignore the word "God's gifts are irrevocable" in Romans 11:29?

 

[gr8grace3]

Where does Ephesians 2:8 say that eternal life is an irrevocable gift?


8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

The phrase irrevocable gift of eternal life does not appear in this verse.

This phrase "irrevocable gift of eternal life" is not found in the bible.

It is man made.


JLB

This Phrase " you will lose your salvation" or "You will lose your eternal life" is not found in the bible.

Eph 2:8 is arguably the most emphatic verse in the Bible for eternal security. We have gone over all of your verses COUNTLESS times that you think are talking about loss of salvation. And You have NEVER dealt with the plain and CLEAR verses that spell out eternal security. Its a witness to all here.

 

[smaller]

smaller, will you please give an example of an imaginary person excusing their evil on the bases of OSAS. How do you see that they might do that?

There is a REAL wicked spiritual phenomena that happens to every believer when they read this text. And every reader who is honest will KNOW instantly that they themselves do it.

Read Jesus' Words here:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

When believers read His Words, they ALL hear a voice within them that says: This doesn't happen to you because you are a believer.

And when they hear that internal voice, they don't know it, but they have located the reality of the phenomena. Yet they don't realize what happens.

There are other examples that are just as effective to show and prove the theft of Word from believers hearts.

 

[smaller]

Kinda a broad brush. Can you cite any OSAS believer who fits your view of them?

Believers of every sort and on either side of the OSAS debate always immediately find ways to excuse, forgive, overlook or bypass their sins by a myriad of ways. They all exercise certain 'formulas' to let the entirety of themselves off the judgment hook.

 

[smaller]

I do not disagree that some sin is of the devil, but a man's sin is not of the devil; it is of himself.

When Paul had a messenger of Satan put upon him there is no way to look only at Paul any further in relationship to any sin. It was never a question of only Paul.

The reality of the messenger of Satan is that they always and only resist via temptation, which is a sin that ultimately can lead anyone into being a slave of sin through the process of thought to word to deed, deed being the completion of slaveship cycle.

Paul shows us the reality of this matter here, that he still served the law of sin in his flesh:

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

There was no choice for Paul in this matter because the messenger of Satan in his flesh has no choice but to resist the LAW. This is why NO ONE is legally obedient as a technical matter. Everyone who reads the LAW will automatically SIN in their MIND. Jesus showed the same principle in Matt. 5:28, that the thought of adultery was committing adultery. This shows the presence of the messenger of Satan within, inserting various sin thoughts. This happens with all law in relation to all people. But believers excuse their internal evil defiling thoughts, thinking it is only them and thinking such evil defiling thoughts are NOT SIN when it's not just them and it IS SIN. The tempter and his messengers remain fully active to this day in the arena of resistance via temptation thoughts.

When you confess sins to the LORD, do you confess your sins or the devil's sins? [that is a rhetorical question just in case]

Believers can confess until the cows come home and they tempter could care less. The tempter has no choice but to resist via temptation and that transpires within the thought arena.

Yes, 1Jn 3:8 says the one practicing sin is of the devil; but it does not indicate or insinuate what you are claiming, that the devil or his messengers can indwell believers.

Convenient translation. No one ceases to be a sinner. There is no 'continuing' or 'practicing' sin when no one is sinless. They never left sin to begin with and the majority are dishonest when it comes to evil thoughts being both evil and defiling. They practice only coverups.

Your corroborating evidence isn't just going to appear; not from the Scriptures. At some point you must pause and actually read the Scriptures you are quoting. Read them slow and with prayer.

The more you pursue this, the deeper you are getting.

I learned all of these the hard way in my personal examinations and attempts to totally eradicate sin. You are welcome to discount 30 plus years of intense christian experience.

 

[FreeGrace]

Deborah13 said: ↑
smaller, will you please give an example of an imaginary person excusing their evil on the bases of OSAS. How do you see that they might do that?

There is a REAL wicked spiritual phenomena that happens to every believer when they read this text. And every reader who is honest will KNOW instantly that they themselves do it.

Read Jesus' Words here:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

When believers read His Words, they ALL hear a voice within them that says: This doesn't happen to you because you are a believer.

The first soil were not believers, and has no application to believers.

And when they hear that internal voice, they don't know it, but they have located the reality of the phenomena. Yet they don't realize what happens.

What is "the reality of the phenomena"? And what happens?

There are other examples that are just as effective to show and prove the theft of Word from believers hearts.

Other examples? You haven't provided any yet.

 

[FreeGrace]

Believers of every sort and on either side of the OSAS debate always immediately find ways to excuse, forgive, overlook or bypass their sins by a myriad of ways. They all exercise certain 'formulas' to let the entirety of themselves off the judgment hook.

Nonsense. Your broad brush of judgment is only your opinion of what believers do. I don't know personally of any believers who excuse their sin. Quite the opposite.

 

[smaller]

Deborah13 said: ↑
The first soil were not believers, and has no application to believers.

All believers start from that position:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Every person who believes today has been 'turned' from this blinding power of Satan. So yes, it's fully applicable to every believer and more importantly it shows the presence of the THIEF within.

Here is what Jesus said about thieves:

John 10:8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

The sheep never seem to realize the internal blinding power of Satan that they were turned from do they?

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

What is "the reality of the phenomena"? And what happens?

Any believer who claims they have no internal temptation from Satan is blinded to that reality by same.

Other examples? You haven't provided any yet.

If a person can't see it what good are other examples when the first example was sufficient?

 

[smaller]

Nonsense. Your broad brush of judgment is only your opinion of what believers do. I don't know personally of any believers who excuse their sin. Quite the opposite.

If you have other avenues of judgment other than forgiving your entirety or excusing your entirety or letting your sins off the hook of judgments in their entirety please feel free to share them.

I will maintain that the messenger of Satan in Paul's flesh was never off the judgment hook and never will be let off the judgment hook by any forms of exercises engaged in.

The same man who said this:

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Also said this about himself:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Paul understood that the messenger of Satan in his flesh justified his statement of fact about himself. And if you think about it, the tempter DOES put Apostles on the front lines of internal attacks and singles them out for such attack.

Paul knew where the battle zone was: WITHIN

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

That wrestling match is not about the 'other people'

 

[tinykitten]

Yes, OSAS is the truth.

1 Peter 1:23;
"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring Word of God".

When you are truly born again, this imperishable seed is in us forever.
You cannot walk away from the living presence of God within you.
You have believed in Jesus, Romans 6:23; and this is God's gift in return.

1 Peter builds up our faith in God to help us bear this life as a Christian.
Those who take it to heart are truly born again.

Chopper

Yes, it is. John 5:24 speaks of this.
Beware those who argue God revokes the gift he elects to give to those whom he calls to his son.

 

[JLB]

How come you ignore the word "God's gifts are irrevocable" in Romans 11:29?

29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29


Where in this scripture does it say God's gift of eternal life is irrevocable?


JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes, it is. John 5:24 speaks of this.
Beware those who argue God revokes the gift he elects to give to those whom he calls to his son.

24"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24


Yes, believers have passed from death into life.

Key word - Believers.


A person who believes for a while, then stops believing and turns away, are no longer believers.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


Jesus said - those who endure to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13


JLB

 

[smaller]

29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29


Where in this scripture does it say God's gift of eternal life is irrevocable?


JLB

Why would any believer in their right mind seek to revoke Gods Gift of eternal life to any believer?

Is there some gain to be had in fostering that kind view? If so, what?

 

[FreeGrace]

All believers start from that position:

No, we start as new creatures, indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

How does this apply to your opening statement here?

Any believer who claims they have no internal temptation from Satan is blinded to that reality by same.

Who do you know who does that?

If a person can't see it what good are other examples when the first example was sufficient?

It was insufficient.

 

[smaller]

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[FreeGrace]

If you have other avenues of judgment other than forgiving your entirety or excusing your entirety or letting your sins off the hook of judgments in their entirety please feel free to share them.

I don't. Why do you wrongly assume that I do?

I will maintain that the messenger of Satan in Paul's flesh was never off the judgment hook and never will be let off the judgment hook by any forms of exercises engaged in.

Of course not. But what relevance does this have to do with OSAS? None.

Paul knew where the battle zone was: WITHIN

Most believers know this. Why do you think most don't?

 

[FreeGrace]

29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29
Where in this scripture does it say God's gift of eternal life is irrevocable?
JLB

Please connect the dots. Paul described both imputed righteousness and eternal life as gifts. Rom 5:15,17 and 6:23.

With me so far?

In Rom 11:29, he said that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Since it is obvious that you don't believe that the gifts in 11:29 refer back to either 5:15,17 or 6:23, please explain to me what gifts specifically did Paul have in mind in 11:29.

Thanks.