OSAS The Truth

[JLB]

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.Galatians 5:19-21

Freegrace said -

I've already explained this passage to you. But your ears are closed.

just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


You dont need to "explain" [away] what the Bible so plainly says.

It's written for all to see and read.

Christians, people who are saved, born again believers, that's who Paul is writing to in this letter to the Galatians.



Read what Paul himself said about judging those of this world - For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside?

I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 1 Corinthians 5:9-12



Paul warns these Galatians Christians if they practice the works of the flesh they will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Not Inherit the Kingdom of God means you inherit the kingdom of Satan.

Not Inherit the Kingdom of God = Depart from Me you cursed into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.



Matthew 25 -

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:



The word of God has found you out brother!

OSAS is not a biblical doctrine!


JLB

 

[MarkT]

OSAS is not a biblical doctrine!

It is to those who are able to receive it.

 

[smaller]

The scriptures I posted speak clearly and plainly to those with ears to hear.

If you choose to reject the truth that the scriptures teach concerning "enduring to the end" or "remaining steadfast to the end to be a PARTAKER of Christ" or those who believe for awhile, the no longer believe.... Then you are building on the solid rock of what Jesus said, but the shifting sand of man made doctrine.

What's worse, is that you are teaching this unscriptural doctrine to others which we are also warned against.



19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.



JLB

You keep dragging in your opinions of those texts, NOT what they actually mean.

And fwiw, there is not a christian among us who doesn't have works of the flesh.

You are welcome to have your own opinions, but opinions are merely that in the face of alternative legitimate scriptural understandings that are at odds with your opinions.

 

[gr8grace3]

They hearken to the call of Christ because he is one with them.

Christ is not one with an unbeliever. An unbeliever listens to the prompting of the Spirit and the Gospel message and with his personal freewill volition, believes that Gospel message.Acts 16:31. Then Christ indwells that believer and is in union with that believer. Christ was never in union with that person before they believed.
Eph 2:12-13~~…12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

And when they find redemption in the lord they are his sheep and no one can rip them from his hand.

Acts 16:31~~John 10:28

Those who come to Christianity, go through the motions and then fall away, were never in his hand. Not ever.

I agree,They fell away from something(religion) that never saved them in the first place.
Believers can and do fall away from the Lord. But they are forever in his hand. 1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. John 10:28

When Jesus says no one will strip his sheep from his hand that is exactly what it says and what he means. What you are arguing is that Jesus was wrong about that and while no one can strip them from his hands, those who are there can elect to bail out. That isn't possible either. Those who bail on their salvation were never in his hand in the first place. Jesus, as he said, never knew them.

We have many examples of believers who SEEMED to bail on their salvation. And we would SEE them as unbelievers. But you are correct, we can't "Bail on our salvation." John 10:28. King Saul would be one example, But Jesus knew Him and had him in His hand.

 

[JLB]

You keep dragging in your opinions of those texts, NOT what they actually mean.

And fwiw, there is not a christian among us who doesn't have works of the flesh.

You are welcome to have your own opinions, but opinions are merely that in the face of alternative legitimate scriptural understandings that are at odds with your opinions.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Can you read what Paul wrote to the Church at Galatia.

Why would you think that a Christian who practiced a lifestyle of sorcery or homosexuality or adultery or heresies, and never repented, would inherit the kingdom of God?

Why not just simply read for yourself what Paul wrote.


JLB

 

[smaller]

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Can you read what Paul wrote to the Church at Galatia.

None of that equates to Christ's abandonment of a believer. It is only your sight that goes to that extent.

It can just as readily be seen that your sight is a departure from the faith, having left the goodness of God.

Why would you think that a Christian who practiced a lifestyle of sorcery or homosexuality or adultery or heresies, and never repented, would inherit the kingdom of God?

I view those matters no differently than Paul having every form/manner of concupiscence within himself. AND I've provided very legitimate alternative avenues of understanding the issues and facts of sin in relationship to the believer. All I'm saying is that your sight I would consider nearly blind to the obvious alternatives that are clearly seen by others.

Why not just simply read for yourself what Paul wrote.
JLB

There is one certainty I know beyond any shadow of doubt. That the supposedly forthcoming eternal torture in fire or eternal death of the faithful has not one named example in the entirety of the Bible.

Yet there you found so called fact?

go figure.

 

[tinykitten]

Christ is not one with an unbeliever. An unbeliever listens to the prompting of the Spirit and the Gospel message and with his personal freewill volition, believes that Gospel message.Acts 16:31.

You took my words out of context when you replied there. All who are not in Christ are at first unbelievers. It is when they hearken to the voice that calls them out of death, out of darkness, and find the light of Christ that they are then saved by grace.

 

[gr8grace3]

You'll have to play your game with someone else. I don't buy lies from anyone.

All have sin. Sin is of the devil. I admit it. Most don't or should I say? Can't?

Yet you offer no insight on how to come out of this "blindness" and be successful with getting rid of this "Blindness" we all(except you) have.?!? You sit on the sidelines and ridicule both sides of the debate, as if you are superior and won't help all of us blind folk out.

 

[JLB]

It is to those who are able to receive it.

One has to disregard and ignore many many scriptures to believe such utter nonsense.

Do you understand what Paul said to these Galatians?


19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

And again -


8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren!
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:8-10


JLB

 

[MarkT]

You have obviously sat under some very BAD teaching on that count.

It is true that Satan 'entered' Judas. So let's see the real devil stand up and not be so apt to misread what happened to Judas and just see Judas or any person as a devil where there is a real devil to observe.

Comes from John 6.

Many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. Jesus said to the twelve, "Will you also go away". Peter answered, "Lord, to whom shall we go"? Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” John 6:70 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was to betray him.

 

[gr8grace3]

You took my words out of context when you replied there. All who are not in Christ are at first unbelievers. It is when they hearken to the voice that calls them out of death, out of darkness, and find the light of Christ that they are then saved by grace.

Do you believe we are regenerated first and then we believe?

 

[JLB]

None of that equates to Christ's abandonment of a believer. It is only your sight that goes to that extent.

It can just as readily be seen that your sight is a departure from the faith, having left the goodness of God.



I view those matters no differently than Paul having every form/manner of concupiscence within himself. AND I've provided very legitimate alternative avenues of understanding the issues and facts of sin in relationship to the believer. All I'm saying is that your sight I would consider nearly blind to the obvious alternatives that are clearly seen by others.



There is one certainty I know beyond any shadow of doubt. That the supposedly forthcoming eternal torture in fire or eternal death of the faithful has not one named example in the entirety of the Bible.

Yet there you found so called fact?

go figure.

Instead of explain away what the scripture says, why not actually read it.


Is there anyone in the Bible who is named in the book of Life?


Christ never abandons anyone, they turn away and stop believing, after having become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

...departing from the living God;


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14


Argue with the scripture, brother, maybe they will change it to suit you.


JLB

 

[smaller]

I've given this example at this site prior. One of the pet texts that the non-OSAS camps just LOVE to drag out for 'proof' is this particular scripture.

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Every last believer who reads that does NOT think this applies to them, yet every last believer who reads it utterly fails, not just fails, but fails in fantastically blinded fashions that it is spoken to who?

THOSE WHO WORK INIQUITY.

Yet every last believer who reads that statement of fact utterly fails to be honest within themselves, that we are ALL down to the last man of us, SINNERS and sin/sinning is INIQUITY.

Using a blind mans reading glasses nobody will be making it past the Pearly Gates.

And standing before the Pearly Gates claiming not being a sinner just serves to mark yet another liar at said Gate.

 

[smaller]

Instead of explain away what the scripture says, why not actually read it.

Is there anyone in the Bible who is named in the book of Life?

Better than named. Go look who's names are inscribed on the Pearly Gates in Revelation. I doubt very much their names would be therein scribed if they weren't in the Book of Life would they?

Christ never abandons anyone, they turn away and stop believing, after having become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

That mindset is just another piece of doubletalk that I detest in theology.

The statement that Christ doesn't leave the believer but the believer leaves Christ and they think that kind of double talk makes sense when it's utter nonsense logic.

 

[MarkT]

The falling away refers to their faith, not their salvation.

Plus, eternal life is a gift, per Rom 6:23. And Rom 11:29 says that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Plus, when a person believes, they are sealed with the promised Holy Spirit as a seal (pledge) for the day of redemption, per Eph 1:13,14 and 4:30, and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.

These verses all guarantee that one who believes is forever sealed for the day of redemption and their eternal life is irrevocable.

To fall away is to fall away from the teachings of the Lord; living water and life. The importance of water to life can not be understated. Without water you have death.

 

[smaller]

Comes from John 6.

Many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. Jesus said to the twelve, "Will you also go away". Peter answered, "Lord, to whom shall we go"? Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” John 6:70 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was to betray him.

What is it that you missed about the fact of Satan entering Judas? Why is it you fail to see THE DEVIL and instead make JUDAS a DEVIL?

Did you do the same thing to Peter when SATAN spoke from Peter's lips? Was Peter a devil then too?

It amazes me to see the ignorance of believers who don't know the difference between a human being and a DEVIL when they make people DEVILS.

Here is what we know for a fact happened to Judas:

Instance one:

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Instance two:

John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Why anyone can't see the REAL DEVIL here is the only strange thing. And not just your everyday devil, but SATAN himself.

 

[smaller]

Yet you offer no insight on how to come out of this "blindness" and be successful

One can't very well expect to REIGN over sin if one LIES about being a sinner and it's relationship to the DEVIL. Liars don't get far in Gods Kingdom.

with getting rid of this "Blindness" we all(except you) have.?!? You sit on the sidelines and ridicule both sides of the debate, as if you are superior and won't help all of us blind folk out.

I am FIRMLY in the OSAS camp. Waaayyyy further than you claim to be.

 

[tinykitten]

Do you believe we are regenerated first and then we believe?

No. That wouldn't be scriptural.

 

[MarkT]

What is it that you missed about the fact of Satan entering Judas? Why is it you fail to see THE DEVIL and instead make JUDAS a DEVIL?

Did you do the same thing to Peter when SATAN spoke from Peter's lips? Was Peter a devil then too?

It amazes me to see the ignorance of believers who don't know the difference between a human being and a DEVIL when they make people DEVILS.

Here is what we know for a fact happened to Judas:

Instance one:

Luke 22:3
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Instance two:

John 13:27
And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

Why anyone can't see the REAL DEVIL here is the only strange thing. And not just your everyday devil, but SATAN himself.

Jesus said Judas was a devil. John 6:70

So Satan entered Judas at the last supper. Does that mean Judas was not a devil? No. It doesn't change the fact.

Jesus said Judas was a devil well before the last supper. So Satan entering Judas does not negate the fact Judas' father was the Devil which makes Judas a devil. Was Peter a devil? Of course not.

 

[MarkT]

What's really amazing is those people who have no spiritual understanding at all think they are born again.