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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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OSAS The Truth
- Thread starter Rollo Tamasi
- Start date
smaller
Member
The promise 'in full' has not arrived. It is a seed that will be fully realized upon receipt of a NEW BODY not subject to dishonor, weakness and corruption inherent in a natural body that we presently have.
1 Cor. 15: 53-54
These matters for any of us on earth who believe has NOT arrived.
We all start from a position of complete blindness to Christ induced by the 'god of this world' in our minds.
We transition to partial sight in this present life.
Every OSAS believer who thinks they are presently the holders of the entire enchilada even though our factual conditions prove otherwise.
Some can't see even though it's put in front of them. Here is another example just for you:
Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Go find LIFE in the eternal damnation and wrath scriptures or the law.
It's there to be had for some. For others, they are intentionally blinded and there is nothing another person can do to change that.
smaller
Member
As previously noted, OSAS adherents slather the entirety of themselves with every Good Thing of God and totally isolate and insulate themselves from Gods Words to the contrary.
It's a common practice of both parties to the debate.
Seems you have the resurrected body in mind here.
You've failed to prove your point. Or even demonstrate it.
I agree with freegrace. Most Christians know that we have a battle going on. Most use the expression of "our Flesh." and I believe that is a better expression to use because satan gets way to much credit for the sins that we do commit.
Look at the 1000 year reign, satan is bound and his influence is gone. It will be the evil that is in man that will reject the King.
With the nature of this debate, it will not get past salvation. It will go no farther than the doctrine of salvation(milk). So I can see how you might "see" eternal security believers as,"Slather the entirety of themselves with every good thing of God.." because we can never go onto experiential sanctification, the 40 or more Grace gifts the believer receives, divine discipline,rewards,blessings,loss of rewards,eternal rewards, temporary blessings......the meat of the word. This debate will stay stuck on the milk of the word, because it basically a "how do we get saved?" thread and topic.
The more I learn about Grace and bible doctrine, the more I see how evil I truly am and what I really am capable of and that would be with no help from satan.
So I say, If you are looking for some Meat and how evil men really are start a new thread. Because loss of salvation threads go no farther than Milk.
smaller
Member
An entity that blinds nearly an entire worlds population to Jesus Christ get's too much credit or deserves to be seen as a real enemy?
So says you in typical 'I see only man' as the enemy fashions? Or is it said under the influence?
1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
smaller
Member
Failure at understanding is the only thing in play with you FG.
Chopper
Member
Sorry, I thought I answered your questions. I may have misunderstood what you were looking for.
#1. Yes
#2. Yes
In both cases Calvin taught that only the elect will be saved. Calvin taught that all the others, God simply ignores them. There are a few people that God predestined to be His enemy, so that His power and authority over evil would be manifest.
tinykitten
Member
Keyword is sheep. John 10 clears up any misconception some may have as to the faithful of Jesus having to wait until the end to be saved. Scripture says no such thing.
Matthew 7:22 shows us that Jesus knows who are his own and who are not. Those who claim to believe and fall away never were called by the father unto the son.
Salvation in Jesus is forever.
If it is not then Jesus was a liar on the cross. And Christians who are called to Christ know that is not true.
Are you sinless? I did notice a few posts back that you were not having much success with your sin until you figured out that you were sealed with Satan.
Which indwelling influence are you posting from?
Salvation is for believers. Those who believe for awhile, then no longer believe, are unbelievers.
The unbelieving have their part in the lake of fire.
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
If you continue in the faith...
If you are moved away from the hope...
If you endure to the end...
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Colossians 1:21-23
JLB
tinykitten
Member
Deborah13
Member
Thanks Chopper, It was my understanding that he taught that God created all people either bad vessels and good vessels. So that would mean that babies who died would be thrown in the fire if they had been created a bad vessel.
Charles Spurgeon had trouble with that teaching. I didn't know if that came from Calvin or had been added to his doctrine.
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled........
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Colossians 1:21-23
Our salvation and position in Christ is in verse 21. Reconciled. Eternal life, a gift that can't be revoked.
Our experiential sanctification in this body is found in verse 22,23a. Some believers with the irrevocable gift of eternal life(reconciled) will not be presented as holy,blameless and above reproach And some will have shame(temporary) in their experiential sanctification. The judgment seat of Christ is an evaluation of the believers life and how the believer operated in the plan that God had for that believer.
Romans 14:10~~But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
1 John 2:28~~Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Colossians 1:21-23
You both seem to like taking one scripture, and trying to build a doctrine from it, while ignoring the whole counsel of God.
Indeed, IF YOU CONTINUE IN THE FAITH... And are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel.
Those who believe for a while, then turn away, are not believers, but unbelievers.
You both now must show a scripture that says UNBELIEVERS are granted eternal life.
Those who endure to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13
If you continue in the faith...
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6
If they fall away...
Those who believe for a while and fall away, have become unbelievers.
JLB
Yet, Jn 3:16 is clear enough: for God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born Son, so that whosoever believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
I don't see that as ignoring anyone.
Are there any verses that make that clear? He loves the world, remember.
You have no support at all from Scripture that believing for a while means loss of salvation.
These are those who never believed.
What you keep dismissing is that when one believes, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a promise for the day of redemption (Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5), they have eternal life (Jn 3:16, 6:40), which means they cannot spend any time in the second death.
This speaks of assurance, not the FACT that one who has believed is secure. Being secure and knowing you are secure are 2 separate things.
Ok, switching gears here. This is a different context. It's about the tribulation. Does not apply to mankind in general. It's very specific.
Do you understand what Paul is saying here about the conditional statement of v.23?
He is saying that God reconciled us who have believed in order to present us believers holy and blameless. But ONLY IF we believers continue in the faith, and are not moved away from the confidence of the gospel.
This has nothing at all to do with OSAS.
tinykitten
Member
I don't think you quite understand what people are saying. Nor that of what Christ taught. I'll try again.
The scripture I quoted is Jesus simply saying, those who hear his voice he knows already and before the creation of the world, before they were knitted together in their mothers womb. They hearken to the call of Christ because he is one with them. And when they find redemption in the lord they are his sheep and no one can rip them from his hand.
Those who come to Christianity, go through the motions and then fall away, were never in his hand. Not ever.
That is why the other scripture that was posted has Jesus saying they may argue to Jesus at the throne of judgment that they performed miracles in his name, professed his teachings, proclaimed for themselves his covenant, but he never knew them.
When Jesus says no one will strip his sheep from his hand that is exactly what it says and what he means. What you are arguing is that Jesus was wrong about that and while no one can strip them from his hands, those who are there can elect to bail out. That isn't possible either. Those who bail on their salvation were never in his hand in the first place. Jesus, as he said, never knew them.
How do you argue that Jesus is mistaken about that?
The scripture I quoted is Jesus simply saying, those who hear his voice he knows already and before the creation of the world, before they were knitted together in their mothers womb. They hearken to the call of Christ because he is one with them. And when they find redemption in the lord they are his sheep and no one can rip them from his hand.
Those who come to Christianity, go through the motions and then fall away, were never in his hand. Not ever.
That is why the other scripture that was posted has Jesus saying they may argue to Jesus at the throne of judgment that they performed miracles in his name, professed his teachings, proclaimed for themselves his covenant, but he never knew them.
When Jesus says no one will strip his sheep from his hand that is exactly what it says and what he means. What you are arguing is that Jesus was wrong about that and while no one can strip them from his hands, those who are there can elect to bail out. That isn't possible either. Those who bail on their salvation were never in his hand in the first place. Jesus, as he said, never knew them.
How do you argue that Jesus is mistaken about that?