OSAS The Truth

[JLB]

Better than named. Go look who's names are inscribed on the Pearly Gates in Revelation. I doubt very much their names would be therein scribed if they weren't in the Book of Life would they?



That mindset is just another piece of doubletalk that I detest in theology.

The statement that Christ doesn't leave the believer but the believer leaves Christ and they think that kind of double talk makes sense when it's utter nonsense logic.

Really?

So these words that Paul wrote as a warning -

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

Beware.... Brethren....departing from the living God.


LOL !!!!!


Please just read!

Lest there be in any among you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.


JLB

 

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Jesus said Judas was a devil. John 6:70

Only if the fact of occupancy of Judas by the devil is disregarded. Jesus made no such oversights.

 

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Really?

So these words that Paul wrote as a warning -

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

Beware.... Brethren....departing from the living God.

LOL !!!!!

Please just read!

Lest there be in any among you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.

JLB

All the warnings are for us to ever remain on guard against recapture by Satan.

Such loss is in this present life by slaveship to sin and it's wicked unseen master.

The warnings have nothing to do with loss of eternal salvation.

 

[MarkT]

Only if the fact of occupancy of Judas by the devil is disregarded. Jesus made no such oversights.

Look. This is a spiritual battle we're engaged in. It's not about humans any more than it's about rocks on a beach. Judas was a devil. The Pharisees were vipers.

Jesus said many sons of the kingdom would be cast out into an outer darkness. Teachers and preachers. So as far as salvation goes, are they saved? Will they be saved? They all say they believe.

 

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Look. This is a spiritual battle we're engaged in. It's not about humans any more than it's about rocks on a beach. Judas was a devil. The Pharisees were vipers.

What makes you think that when Jesus spoke to children of the devil he was not speaking to devils in those men? Again, you merely show bad understanding resulting from bad teachings.

Jesus said many sons of the kingdom would be cast out into an outer darkness. Teachers and preachers. So as far as salvation goes, are they saved? Will they be saved? They all say they believe.

If and when you see this as a fact, you may also see the 'cause' of blindness in the man is not of the man alone:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

All of us who now believe started from the identical condition of spiritual blindness invoked by that same resistor.

Failure to see the fact of it and to blame man is also caused by the same party.

 

[MarkT]

What makes you think that when Jesus spoke to children of the devil he was not speaking to devils in those men? Again, you merely show bad understanding resulting from bad teachings.

He said Judas was a devil.

If and when you see this as a fact, you may also see the 'cause' of blindness in the man is not of the man alone:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

All of us who now believe started from the identical condition of spiritual blindness invoked by that same resistor.

Failure to see the fact of it and to blame man is also caused by the same party.

Jesus said Judas was a devil. This is the word of God. Like it or not.

Satan entered Judas. Satan also put his words in Peter's mouth. Yet Jesus did not say Peter was a devil. He did say Judas was a devil. So Satan entering into a man or putting words into a man's mouth, it doesn't change the fact. Satan's activity does not factor into it. Why did Jesus say Judas was a devil? Because he was.

 

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Jesus said Judas was a devil. This is the word of God. Like it or not.

You think Jesus was blind to Satan's entry?

Satan entered Judas. Satan also put his words in Peter's mouth.

Brilliant deduction. That made neither man a devil nor did it make the Pharisees devils.

People who handle and engage the Word are always the first victims of the enemy.

 

[MarkT]

You think Jesus was blind to Satan's entry?

Brilliant deduction. That made neither man a devil nor did it make the Pharisees devils.

People who handle and engage the Word are always the first victims of the enemy.

Jesus said Judas was a devil. He even said he chose the twelve and one of them was a devil. If being captured by Satan makes a man a devil then Peter was a devil. If you agree that Satan's words didn't make Peter a devil, then Satan's entry didn't make Judas a devil. Therefore Judas was a devil all along, right from the beginning when Jesus chose him.

 

[JLB]

All the warnings are for us to ever remain on guard against recapture by Satan.

Such loss is in this present life by slaveship to sin and it's wicked unseen master.

The warnings have nothing to do with loss of eternal salvation.

So you just make up your own interpretation of what the clear and undeniable scriptures say.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14



we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

If a believer departs the living God, before the end, then there is no promise that remains for him to be a partaker of Christ.

The end of you faith is the salvation of your soul. 1 Peter 1:9


We receive the promised salvation at the end, not the beginning of our faith.

... if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.

If we have faith in Christ for salvation, then we have the substance of the thing we are hoping for.


The reality of this promised salvation, comes on the Day of Judgement when these words are spoken to -

'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34


Until you here these words, you are still operating in faith for Salvation, and you are told by Jesus Christ, the Author and finisher of your salvation, to endure to the end.

Be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life.


Paul said it this way -

yet now He has reconciled... if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


Peter said it this way -

8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,9 receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:8-9


This beautiful salvation is laid up for those who believe, and believe to the end.



JLB

 

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Jesus said Judas was a devil. He even said he chose the twelve and one of them was a devil. If being captured by Satan makes a man a devil then Peter was a devil. If you agree that Satan's words didn't make Peter a devil, then Satan's entry didn't make Judas a devil. Therefore Judas was a devil all along, right from the beginning when Jesus chose him.

I would simply say you appear to be incognizant of the obvious.

 

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So you just make up your own interpretation of what the clear and undeniable scriptures say.

It would be you reading into the text that believers are going to be eternally fried if not performing (X), whatever (X) happens to be in your self interpreted forumlas.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

If a believer departs the living God, before the end, then there is no promise that remains for him to be a partaker of Christ.

You can keep trying to spin the circular logic that Jesus NEVER leaves the believer but the believer leaves Jesus and think that means that Jesus left them. Of course that thin fallacy doesn't fly on the surface as it makes no sense. Seen many try it though.

Jesus IS and remains WITH us in all our trials and tribulations, period.

The end of you faith is the salvation of your soul. 1 Peter 1:9

We receive the promised salvation at the end, not the beginning of our faith.

Salvation comes the instant our Savior enters our hearts. That can never be thwarted.

... if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.

If we have faith in Christ for salvation, then we have the substance of the thing we are hoping for.

The reality of this promised salvation, comes on the Day of Judgement when these words are spoken to -

'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:34

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Only Christ Himself in us can make any Perfect.

You can claim Christ unable or claim believers are their own enablers. Neither of those postures work.

Until you here these words, you are still operating in faith for Salvation, and you are told by Jesus Christ, the Author and finisher of your salvation, to endure to the end.

I believe The Author is Able, completely and that I am not and never was able.

I don't have belief in mySELF.

Though I'm sure many will try that angle in the end.

 

[MarkT]

I would simply say you appear to be incognizant of the obvious.

Jesus said Judas was a devil, suggesting he was not of God. That's the way I take it. If he simply meant Judas would betray him, or Satan would enter Judas, why call him a devil?

No way. You can keep your understanding. I have no interest in it.

 

[FreeGrace]

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.Galatians 5:19-21



just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

You dont need to "explain" [away] what the Bible so plainly says.

It's written for all to see and read.

The phrase "will not inherit the kingdom of God" does not mean "will not get into heaven", as you suppose.

And, God's gift of eternal life is irrevocable, which you haven't yet faced.

Christians, people who are saved, born again believers, that's who Paul is writing to in this letter to the Galatians.

Yes, and because God's gift of eternal life is irrevocable, Gal 5:19-21 CANNOT mean loss of salvation. It is about loss of reward, which is a real warning to believers.

2 Jn 8 - Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

Your view makes this verse meaningless.

 

[FreeGrace]

One has to disregard and ignore many many scriptures to believe such utter nonsense.

Why have you disregarded the words of Paul in Rom 11:29, that God's gifts are irrevocable. After he wrote in 6:23 that eternal life is a gift. Would you like the verse that tells us who gives us this gift? OK. 1 Jn 5:11. God gives us this gift.

Do you understand what Paul said to these Galatians?

Why do you disregard Paul's words to the Romans?

 

[FreeGrace]

To fall away is to fall away from the teachings of the Lord; living water and life. The importance of water to life can not be understated. Without water you have death.

OK, let's unpack this. What did Jesus say about "drinking water"? He told the Samaritan woman at the well that the water He gives would result in her NEVER being thirtsty again. He wasn't talking about continuing to drink, but to drink.

Jn 4:14 - But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus used the aorist tense for "drinketh". That is significant. That tense has no regard for duration. It is about a point in time action, not continuous or on-going action. And He further said that the water that He gives will be a well of water springing up into eternal life.

So, your assumption that without water you have death is refuted by Jesus' words to the woman. Once a person has believed in Christ, which Jesus equated with drinking of the water He gives, they have a well of water in them that springs up into eternal life.

So, instead of OSAS, how about this, once having drunk the water Jesus gives, Always having eternal life.

 

[JLB]

OK, let's unpack this. What did Jesus say about "drinking water"? He told the Samaritan woman at the well that the water He gives would result in her NEVER being thirtsty again. He wasn't talking about continuing to drink, but to drink.

Jn 4:14 - But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Jesus used the aorist tense for "drinketh". That is significant. That tense has no regard for duration. It is about a point in time action, not continuous or on-going action. And He further said that the water that He gives will be a well of water springing up into eternal life.

So, your assumption that without water you have death is refuted by Jesus' words to the woman. Once a person has believed in Christ, which Jesus equated with drinking of the water He gives, they have a well of water in them that springs up into eternal life.

So, instead of OSAS, how about this, once having drunk the water Jesus gives, Always having eternal life.

If you continue to believe.

If there was no possible way for a person to stop believing, and turn away from the living God, then why did Jesus teach us and warn us of this; ... But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Look at the words that Jesus told the woman at the well -

but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4:14

Jesus did not say He was giving her eternal life, but that the water He gives, SHALL BECOME A FOUNTAIN springing up into eternal life.

Like John 1:12 says .... We have been given the right to become sons of God.

We all who continue to believe to the end, will experience the reality of being sons of God at the Resurrection.

Now we are sons of God by faith.

Hope that is seen is not hope.


JLB

 

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Jesus said Judas was a devil, suggesting he was not of God. That's the way I take it. If he simply meant Judas would betray him, or Satan would enter Judas, why call him a devil?

No way. You can keep your understanding. I have no interest in it.

My understanding is from the Word. I take no interest in blind speculations.

 

[FreeGrace]

If you continue to believe.

That's where your hang up continue to be. There are no verses to support that idea. In fact, the aorist tense of a number of verses about believing for salvation refute your "present tense" notion of belief.

But here's the straight truth from Scripture, for those who are open to truth.

1. Christ's imputed righteousness is a gift to believers. Rom 5:15,17
2. Eternal life is a gift. Rom 6:23
3. The gift of eternal life comes directly from God. 1 Jn 5:11
4. God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 11:29

You've not refuted any of this. What has been refuted is your notion of present tense belief. It isn't found in Scripture.

If there was no possible way for a person to stop believing, and turn away from the living God, then why did Jesus teach us and warn us of this; ... But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

There certainly is the possibility of people who cease to believe, for various reasons. So what? God's gifts are irrevocable.

Look at the words that Jesus told the woman at the well -

but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4:14

Jesus did not say He was giving her eternal life, but that the water He gives, SHALL BECOME A FOUNTAIN springing up into eternal life.

Wow. What a shameful attempt to explain away what Jesus said. If you believe John 4:14 means that eternal life will come at some later point, why don't you believe what Jesus said in John 5:24 then??

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

Do you understand what "hath everlasting life" means? It means you have it NOW, not some point in the future.

So, let's not just pick and choose the verses that we like and ignore or reject the rest. That's neither honest nor scholarly.

Either accept all of God's Word, or none of it.

Like John 1:12 says .... We have been given the right to become sons of God.

We all who continue to believe to the end, will experience the reality of being sons of God at the Resurrection.

Now we are sons of God by faith.

Wrong. So said Jesus, when He spoke John 5:24.

 

[JLB]

That's where your hang up continue to be. There are no verses to support that idea. In fact, the aorist tense of a number of verses about believing for salvation refute your "present tense" notion of belief.

But here's the straight truth from Scripture, for those who are open to truth.

1. Christ's imputed righteousness is a gift to believers. Rom 5:15,17
2. Eternal life is a gift. Rom 6:23
3. The gift of eternal life comes directly from God. 1 Jn 5:11
4. God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 11:29

You've not refuted any of this. What has been refuted is your notion of present tense belief. It isn't found in Scripture.


There certainly is the possibility of people who cease to believe, for various reasons. So what? God's gifts are irrevocable.


Wow. What a shameful attempt to explain away what Jesus said. If you believe John 4:14 means that eternal life will come at some later point, why don't you believe what Jesus said in John 5:24 then??

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

Do you understand what "hath everlasting life" means? It means you have it NOW, not some point in the future.

So, let's not just pick and choose the verses that we like and ignore or reject the rest. That's neither honest nor scholarly.

Either accept all of God's Word, or none of it.


Wrong. So said Jesus, when He spoke John 5:24.

Here is what God's word says -

if indeed you continue in the faith

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Colossians 1:21-23


If you continue in the faith.

OSAS believes there is no possibility of a person departing the living God, of falling away from the faith, or renouncing Christ or serving other gods later on in their life.

Jesus said those who endure to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13

If you have faith in Christ, you have the substance of the salvation you are hoping for, right now.

You have eternal life, ie relationship with God (John 17:3), right now, and you will continue to have this, if you continue to believe to the end. Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:23, and do not depart from Him because you became hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, Hebrews 3:12-14.


These scriptures as well as the others form the whole counsel of God, not just the ones we like.

You need to learn to accept all of God's word, not just the "milk" of the word.


JLB

 

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If you continue in the faith.

OSAS believes there is no possibility of a person departing the living God, of falling away from the faith, or renouncing Christ or serving other gods later on in their life.

Not true. The difficulty is that the non-OSAS camps believe that the statements outlining the very REAL matters of hindering faith or falling in this present life equate to eternal damnation.

That is where the rift in the camps resides.