OSAS The Truth

[FreeGrace]

The work of Christ and the benefits to us, from His work of the cross is accomplished by believing.

Actually, believing accomplishes nothing. Do you think the act of believing has any power?? Well, it doesn't.

All accomplishment was done by Jesus Christ. He did it all, including giving eternal life to those who believe, WHEN they believe (Jn 5:24). And God's gifts are irrevocable, which you are not willing to face.

If a person believes for a while, then no longer believes, they have become an unbeliever.

Regardless of your terms, they still HAVE eternal life, which is irrevocable, and you haven't shown otherwise.

Don't you think that if one could lose eternal life, it would be stated in clear and unambiguous terms? So, where are they?

Unbelievers are not promised eternal life, only believers.

This would insinuate that eternal life can be lost. So, where are the verses?

OSAS teaches "another" Gospel, one that has unbelievers saved along with the faithful believers.JLB

Faithful believers are rewarded for eternity. Unfaithful children of God lose reward.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked this:
"Where in this passage do you find any warning about loss of salvation? Please advise."

Here is a specific verse within the whole warning of Paul.

And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 1 Corinthians 10:7


Paul, writing to the CHRISTIANS at Corinth, warns them, do not BECOME idolaters, as were some of them.

Just so you will know the fate of idolaters, I will list that for you as well.

Just more ill placed assumption on your part. Yes, believers can become idolaters. But where is the loss of salvation mentioned here? It isn't here. Or anywhere else, for that matter.

The problem is making assumptions that aren't stated. You're trying to connect dots that aren't there.

Scripture states clearly that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29). And eternal life is a gift (Rom 6:23) which is given by God (1 Jn 5:11). These verses don't need assumptions. They are clear.

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." Revelation 21:8

So, cowards are thrown into hell?? And all liars?? Have you ever told a fib? Ever? Well, prepare for the heat, then.

Your misuse of Scripture is quite sad. Rev 20:15 is clear enough for anyone. Those who do not possess eternal life will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Now, if eternal life can be lost or "revoked", please provide clear Scripture about it. So far, all you've done is to make assumptions about Scripture.

You haven't yet provided any verses that plainly warn of loss of salvation or eternal life. Z.E.R.O.

 

[JLB]

Regardless of your terms, they still HAVE eternal life, which is irrevocable, and you haven't shown otherwise.

Actually, believing accomplishes nothing. Do you think the act of believing has any power?? Well, it doesn't.

The Root of the OSAS Gospel. Universalism.

If you don't have to believe then all people will be saved!

The Truth is you do in fact have to be saved.

11 "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe and be saved!

Believing = salvation.

OSAS teaches us that those by the wayside are saved, because apparently accord to FreeGrace we don't even have to believe to be saved.

That's the Gospel of Universalism!


13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

The same would hold for the second group, as these only believed for a while.

Not believing, or believing for awhile, then no longer believing, is still rewarded with eternal life, according to Gospel of OSAS.

LOL!


JLB

 

[smaller]

Please cite the other structures that hold to determinism that is not Calvinist.

Uh, you. If you are OSAS that makes you a determinist. All of us who believe beyond any doubt that the devil and his messengers are heading to permanent hiatus in the LoF are also determinists to that degree. So in this way I'd suggest you're a variant of hyper determinism.

And for the record, adhering to the Nicene Creed doesn't make me a Roman Catholic either.

We should all be well aware that the positions we take on are largely derived from the legitimate work others, such as the NC.

I started in the freewill/you can lose your salvation camp. Born into the Lutheran faith, converted to RCC and eventually was born again in May of 1981 after a deeply moving personal experience with Jesus Christ. Spent the first few years after conversion studying basic christian matters from history such as the Trinity and from popular teachers in the charismatic realm. I've also had a 3 decade love of study of allegory/parable/similitude to try to open up those parts of scripture, which is the most difficult arena in the entire realm of studies.

I didn't even know OSAS existed as a studied position as there were no reformed or Calvinists groups where I lived and there was no internet to engage with then.

After discussion of the subject matter with my home church pastor, a deeply sincere man of God to this day, he was in the freewill/possible loss of salvation camp. His wife, also a Godly woman, was OSAS. It really made me think how 2 people in the same household, both very devoted to Christ could come to such opposite conclusions. I knew I had to study it out for myself so I would know. I picked up an older read on the subject matter from Lewis Sperry Chafer called GRACE. Chafer used to lead the Dallas Theological Seminary, a reformed camp. After reading the myriad of proof texts and commentary and some other reads on the subject I was firmly convinced the position was true. And this after being saved for 5 years or so already. And that eventually freed me from the charismatic deception camp.

It's probably important to note that people who have born again experiences don't know ANYTHING about 'doctrines.' It ALL has to be brought to your attentions and as such it demands studies for determinations of truth. But none of us who were saved via 'experience' with God in Christ came there by knowledge. We came largely being brought in by His Love, which in the end is the only matter that ever mattered. I consider most of these kinds of topics secondary to the main, His Love.

IF Gods Love is so fickle as to toss aside those He has called at the slightest gaffe it does not promote LIFE in Christ. This I am also convinced of by 'experience.'

It's actually not all that unusual. Maybe you're just not as aware of the field as you think you are.

Certainly aware of it. It's just a bit unusual because most freewillers aren't OSAS.

Anyone who is sincere about their faith will borrow, examine and study everything in the christian realm. And that's how we wind up where we are at any given point in time. Personal stress will also force us to examine our convictions. And I've had my share of trials and tribulations as well. All are also guaranteed and determined to have these kinds of experiences as well. We actually know God is for us when He places us under discipline, which is extremely unpleasant.

People of other 'brands' of christianity are never 100% right or wrong. The non-OSAS camps do have legitimate scriptural proof sets for their position as well. They just don't understand that there are other legitimate avenues of understanding that can handle both sides of this particular subject BETTER.

And that is why we have people like JLB who get pooled in ridiculous circular engagements trying to handle the OSAS proof texts, thinking it makes sense when it doesn't, like Christ doesn't leave us but we leave Him, meaning Christ left. Crazy logic. But to them they think it works.

 

[chessman]

The Root of the OSAS Gospel. Universalism.
JLB

If this were true (i.e. not a lie/untruth), then why does OSAS start out saying “Once you are Saved…”?
The truth is, neither OSAS nor anti-OSAS believe in or teach universalism. Just like the truth is neither OSAS nor anti-OSAS teach that a Christian should go on sinning (whether that sin be lying or idolatry or any other sin).

If you don't have to believe then all people will be saved!
The Truth is you do in fact have to be saved.

Thus the reason OSAS roots itself in “Once Saved”! (Once God saves you, He always saves you. For God’s gifts are irrevocable.)

11 "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Believe and be saved!
JLB

Cool. Amen. Now you’re talking. Believe and be saved. That’s what it says, right? None of this be-good enough and be saved ‘stuff’ from OSAS.

Believing = salvation.
JLB

Hmm??? Where’d that come from? What was wrong with Believe and BE saved, that you quoted? Was that not simple enough for you? Or was there a conflict with anti-OSAS within Jesus’ statement. Thus, you had to change what Jesus said to be a better fit with anti-OSAS?

OSAS teaches us that those by the wayside are saved, because apparently accord to FreeGrace we don't even have to believe to be saved.
JLB

Umm, wrong. OSAS does NOT teach those by the wayside are saved. Careful! You wouldn’t want to be caught lying about what someone has said, now would you?

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
JLB

Have you ever thought about why Jesus said “receive the word with joy” instead of receive the word with the sorrowful conviction of sin from which you need a Savior outside of yourself? Exactly how many people (including yourself) have you known that heard the Word, the first time, and felt joy at the realization of their sin? Umm, none. True joy comes after, and only AFTER, the true forgiveness of sin. Not at the moment of conviction. There's no joy in realizing your unforgiven sin is sending you to the LoF. True conviction comes through the Holy Spirit’s work (the root), which this soil never had per the Text.

 

[chessman]

A person who believes for a while, then stops believing, and turns away from the living God is called an unbeliever.
JLB

I noticed you didn’t quote a Scripture to back-up your statement. Here are the 12 occurrences within the NT of the word “unbeliever”. None, describe a former believer or ex-believer.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=unbeliever&qs_version=LEB

Why? Because a person who believes for a while, then stops believing, is called an ex-believer, not an unbeliever. An unbeliever is someone (Biblically speaking) who has never believed.

A woman that’s married for a while, then stops being married is called an ex-wife.

A saved person that’s saved for a while, then hypothetically stops being saved would be referred to as an "ex-saved" person. For which there are zero biblical examples of the word "ex-saved".

 

[JLB]

I noticed you didn’t quote a Scripture to back-up your statement. Here are the 12 occurrences within the NT of the word “unbeliever”. None, describe a former believer or ex-believer.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=unbeliever&qs_version=LEB

Why? Because a person who believes for a while, then stops believing, is called an ex-believer, not an unbeliever. An unbeliever is someone (Biblically speaking) who has never believed.

A woman that’s married for a while, then stops being married is called an ex-wife.

A saved person that’s saved for a while, then hypothetically stops being saved would be referred to as an "ex-saved" person. For which there are zero biblical examples of the word "ex-saved".

That's funny.!

A woman who is married, and runs off with another man is called an ADULTRESS!


7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things,[d] and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

A woman whose husband dies is officially UNMARRIED.


JLB

 

[smaller]

Isaiah 54:17
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

 

[MarkT]

No more than Paul being a blinded slave of the devil prior to his own conversion. Saul was not a devil nor was Judas, Peter or the people you try to make devils of in the above. Devils are devils. They are NOT people.

Jesus was a person and he was the Son of God. Keep that in mind and tell me why Judas was not a devil?

 

[Malachi]

The Root of the OSAS Gospel. Universalism.

Universalism teaches that all sinners will be saved in the end regardless of whether they repent and believe the Gospel.

The eternal security of the believer teaches that only those who are genuinely saved will remain eternally secure, and not all will be saved.

So how in the world did you make this connection which defies logic?

 

[smaller]

Jesus was a person and he was the Son of God. Keep that in mind and tell me why Judas was not a devil?

There is a very long list of theological weaknesses when making people devils. The instant you do that for example you eliminate every such person from the possibility of salvation. Jesus didn't come to save devils, period. No devil will be saved.

No one starts out as a devil and is then converted into a child of God. To do that means demonic/satanic salvation. A position found nowhere in the text.

In addition there is a very large issue about ALL of Israel who are stated in the scriptures to be Gods children. Judas was Israelite. This [your false sight] makes children of God into devils.

The list of issues can go on at length. Part of the reason it's a difficult subject matter is because 'devils' DO have access to people's flesh, inclusive of their MIND through the avenue of internal THEFT/SIN of Word sown and of temptation, which is of the Tempter, Satan, and his minions. It's an important principle to understand that we do not war against people, as they are not devils. We do ALL still war against the other parties, who are the captors of every person who is not saved and even within our selves when the struggles with temptation are put upon us by the Tempter.

Therefore a turning against that power and a division from that power of Satan is mandatory for salvation.

People are not our enemies, but that is not the only party in play with anyone inclusive of ourselves when we are forced into dealing with internal temptation of the Tempter.

Being tempted of the Tempter makes you or I no more of a devil than it made Judas in his own slaveship to same.

Yet God used Judas AND the Tempter to His Own Ends to fulfill the fate of God in the flesh, Jesus Christ. Therefore THEY BOTH served God to fulfill the scriptures regarding Jesus.

The betrayal of Judas was written of long before Judas showed up in the flesh to betray him. Judas had NO CHOICE but to have Satan enter him to fulfill the scriptures.

He had no more choice in that matter than any of have when we are born into spiritual death, blinded by the god of this world in our own minds.

Every person who is saved is saved by being turned from that power of Satan that previously blinded their minds and hearts.

 

[MarkT]

There is a very long list of theological weaknesses when making people devils. The instant you do that for example you eliminate every such person from the possibility of salvation. Jesus didn't come to save devils, period. No devil will be saved.

No one starts out as a devil and is then converted into a child of God. To do that means demonic/satanic salvation. A position found nowhere in the text.

In addition there is a very large issue about ALL of Israel who are stated in the scriptures to be Gods children. Judas was Israelite. This makes children of God into devils.

The list of issues can go on at length. Part of the reason it's a difficult subject matter is because 'devils' DO have access to people's flesh, inclusive of their MIND through the avenue of internal THEFT/SIN of Word sown and of temptation, which is of the Tempter, Satan, and his minions. It's an important principle to understand that we do not war against people, as they are not devils. We do ALL still war against the other parties, who are the captors of every person who is not saved and even within our selves when the struggles with temptation are put upon us by the Tempter.

Therefore a turning against that power and a division from that power of Satan is mandatory for salvation.

People are not our enemies, but that is not the only party in play with anyone inclusive of ourselves when we are forced into dealing with internal temptation of the Tempter.

Being tempted of the Tempter makes you or I no more of a devil than it made Judas in his own slaveship to same.

Yet God used Judas AND the Tempter to His Own Ends to fulfill the fate of God in the flesh, Jesus Christ. Therefore THEY BOTH served God to fulfill the scriptures regarding Jesus.

The betrayal of Judas was written of long before Judas showed up in the flesh to betray him. Judas had NO CHOICE but to have Satan enter him to fulfill the scriptures.

He had no more choice in that matter than any of have when we are born into spiritual death, blinded by the god of this world in our own minds.

Every person who is saved is saved by being turned from that power of Satan that previously blinded their minds and hearts.

Jesus was a person and he was the Son of God. I am a person and I am a son of God. Judas was a person and he was a devil.

 

[smaller]

An unfortunate oversight on your part as prior noted.

You have to have an appreciation of the term: One of you is a devil. Had Jesus said Judas explicitly you'd have a point. And even noting it regarding Judas as John did, it remains that 'one' of Judas was a devil, and that would be SATAN.

I consider it adequate baiting on the subject by the construct by the scripture to 'allow' people to stumble into that dead theology hole, that people are devils, and to completely IGNORE the fact we know, that Satan 'entered' Judas.

 

[Gregg]

The work of Christ and the benefits to us, from His work of the cross is accomplished by believing.

All made possible by God, sustained by God, and guaranteed by God.

"But the one doing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God" (Jn 3:21 LITV). It is the Father who brings a man to Christ so that he may believe in Him (Jn 6:45, Jn 6:65). Those who come to Christ believing in Him, a one-time event, He "will in no way cast out" (Jn 6:37). And it is Christ who brings the one believing in Him to the Father (Jn 14:6 b); and that one will be saved (Jn 10:9).

Once we are in Christ, we are still God's workmanship; "for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God before prepared that we should walk in them" (Eph 2:10 LITV).

If a person believes for a while, then no longer believes, they have become an unbeliever.

They remained an unbeliever; because if they had believed into Christ then they would have been 1) justified before God, 2) born from above, 3) given life that is eternal, and 4) sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Your doctrine attempts to divert a believer away from a Gospel of God's grace into a gospel of a man's work.

Your doctrine makes a man the co-agent of his salvation, a co-savior.

OSAS teaches "another" Gospel, one that has unbelievers saved along with the faithful believers.

That is a blatant lie; and a public witness that you are both capable and willing to misrepresent matters.

 

[Shimshon]

Gregg, by the exchange your having I take it you hold to OSAS? My question to you is why does revelation mention churches that need to repent or their lampstand will be removed?

Rev 2
1"To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:......4But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first.5Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

12"And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: ......................14But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality.15So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans.16Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.

18"And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write:.............................20But I have this against you, that you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servantsto practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.21I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality.22Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,23and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches will know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you according to your works.24But to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold this teaching, who have not learned what some call the deep things of Satan, to you I say, I do not lay on you any other burden.

Rev 3
1"And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: 'The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars."'I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.2Wake up, and strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.3Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.

14"And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.15"'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!16So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.17For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.19Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Five out of seven churches are mentioned as doing things against the Lord. Each time the message is 'repent'. IF NOT death. Each church was in need of repentance. Each church was told that if it did not repent it would be removed. Logic dictates then that members of the churches would loose eternal life IF they did NOT repent. Where is the eternal security doctrine in these verses?

 

[JLB]

Universalism teaches that all sinners will be saved in the end regardless of whether they repent and believe the Gospel.

The eternal security of the believer teaches that only those who are genuinely saved will remain eternally secure, and not all will be saved.

So how in the world did you make this connection which defies logic?

Of course saved people will be eternally secure. That was never in question.

What I addressed is this statement -

Actually, believing accomplishes nothing. Do you think the act of believing has any power?? Well, it doesn't.

This says that we don't have to believe to be saved, because believing accomplishes nothing.


Here is what the scriptures teach -


How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14


Furthermore it is those who obey the Gospel that are truly saved, as it is written -

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Romans 10:16


Not only is our believing necessary, but obeying as well.

We show that we believe by obeying.

We obey the Gospel by Repenting.


Unbelief and disobedience are the same word in the Greek.

Compare this verse -


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Hebrews 4:6 KJV


We show that we believe by obeying.


JLB

 

[Malachi]

Actually, believing accomplishes nothing. Do you think the act of believing has any power?? Well, it doesn't.

Not sure who came up with this aphorism, but whoever it is, does not know the Scriptures nor the power of God. For God, believing is the only thing that men can do. "The just shall live by faith".

 

[JLB]

Greg said -

All made possible by God, sustained by God, and guaranteed by God.

"But the one doing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God" (Jn 3:21 LITV). It is the Father who brings a man to Christ so that he may believe in Him (Jn 6:45, Jn 6:65). Those who come to Christ believing in Him, a one-time event, He "will in no way cast out" (Jn 6:37). And it is Christ who brings the one believing in Him to the Father (Jn 14:6 b); and that one will be saved (Jn 10:9).

Once we are in Christ, we are still God's workmanship; "for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God before prepared that we should walk in them" (Eph 2:10 LITV).

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:37-40

Key phrase "believes in Him".

Notice what Jesus didn't say -

that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him for a while, then falls away and no longer believes may have everlasting life;

They remained an unbeliever; because if they had believed into Christ then they would have been 1) justified before God, 2) born from above, 3) given life that is eternal, and 4) sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Your doctrine attempts to divert a believer away from a Gospel of God's grace into a gospel of a man's work.

Your doctrine makes a man the co-agent of his salvation, a co-savior.

They remained an unbeliever; That s not what Jesus said -

Jesus said - But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

These didn't "remain" in unbelief, as you said, but rather they believed... for a while.

That is a blatant lie; and a public witness that you are both capable and willing to misrepresent matters.

Here is the statement that brought about my response -

Actually, believing accomplishes nothing. Do you think the act of believing has any power?? Well, it doesn't.

OSAS teaches "another" Gospel, one that has unbelievers saved along with the faithful believers.

A person who believes for a while, then no longer believes has clearly become an unbelieving person.


Your "gospel" states that this unbelieving person, who used to believe, then no longer believes, is still saved.

This is clearly a "Gospel" whereby the believing and the unbelieving both inherit the kingdom of God.

This is another Gospel.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Not sure who came up with this aphorism, but whoever it is, does not know the Scriptures nor the power of God. For God, believing is the only thing that men can do. "The just shall live by faith".

Amen!

See post # 981 by Freegrace.


JLB

 

[dadof10]

Yes, OSAS is the truth.

1 Peter 1:23;
"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring Word of God".

When you are truly born again, this imperishable seed is in us forever.
You cannot walk away from the living presence of God within you.
You have believed in Jesus, Romans 6:23; and this is God's gift in return.

1 Peter builds up our faith in God to help us bear this life as a Christian.
Those who take it to heart are truly born again.

Chopper

Rollo,

I have brought this subject up on other threads and have, frankly, been disappointed with the responses from the OSAS side. It seems to me that if you believe the word "justified" in James means "shown, proved or demonstrated to be righteous", then it's possible that a person can prove he is saved by his actions. According to James, this "proof" seems to be as benign as simply feeding a hungry person, out of Christian charity, of course. The VAST majority of Christian converts (from no belief to some form of Christianity) do at least this. In fact, I don't know of one "born again" Christian who has not fed the hungry, and done MUCH more to "show" or "demonstrate" that the faith he has is not a "shown" faith, but a "saving" faith. There have been many examples throughout history of people like these who apostatize, many from very recent history.

My question is, if a "born again" Christian proves his faith is a saving faith by his actions, then apostatizes, doesn't that necessarily prove OSAS is false? The standard line concerning apostates is that "they were never saved in the first place". If James says we can PROVE our "true faith" by our actions, then this excuse is rendered mute.