OSAS The Truth

[Rollo Tamasi]

Recall what else Jesus said in the parable of the talents, after He said 'well done, oh faithful servant'. He gave authority over 10 cities, 5 cities. And there are the 5 different crowns, that are rewards. And reigning with Christ is most definitely a reward for faithful service. Those believers who haven't been faithful/obedient will lose out on these rewards.

That's why there will be tears that God will have to "wipe away". Rev 21:4

This is interesting.
5 crowns?
Do we wear them?
Line them up on our mantle to display them to others?
Be given a bigger mansion?
Have control over peoples lives while others are sweeping floors?
How does it all work?

 

[jonahmano]

Maybe it's ridiculous in your mind only. But not to Scripture. Paul's comment about the man in 1 Cor 5 should clarify the point for you. He was turning the man over to Satan for the "destruction of the flesh" or physical death, so that his sould would be saved. How isn't that clear?

It's utterly ridiculous to mean this verse that way. If this verse was like that then this should be the talk of Christian era. This kind of peculiar statement are coming from this generation new grace preachers and not of those old chaps. Let others come into this. I just want to hear others opinion on this but for me it looks ridiculous.

I don't underestand what you mean by "could ever seen heaven".

That was on a lighter note Just chill

Uh, quite a bit more than "oppress him". The destruction of the flesh clearly indicated physical death.

You statement of a believer who is continually sinning and getting destroyed by Satan is completely baseless. Let others also come into this. I want to hear others in this matter not just you

Yep. So what? Are you not aware of God's wrath against sin, for both believer and unbeliever?

We are satan's enemies and the only way satan can catch us is when we sin against God. You do know the accuser...........

Would you say that Job was protected, or what?

According to the bible God put an hedge around him so that Satan couldn't touch him. This is same with all believers.

I wouldn't criticize what Paul wrote as twisted. It is very clear. The man was turned over to Satan for death but his soul would be saved.

Paul never meant of what you are thinking. It's you that are twisting the verses and not Paul. Please don't bring Paul or the Holy Spirit into this. It's ridiculous to make someone believe that a man who continues to live a sinful life will make to heaven. If that is so then every man in this world would opt for that choice. Because sin is the only medium where we are attached to this world.

 

[JLB]

It's there, all right. It's just no different than what Isaiah wrote in 6:9-10, and quoted by Luke in Acts 28 and John in his gospel.

Acts 28:26-27
26saying, ‘Go to this people and say, “You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; And you will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; 27For the heart of this people has become dull, And with their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes; Otherwise they might see with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.”’

Paul defined who the "called" are in Romans 1:5,6,7 and 8:28,30. He also defined what God's gifts are in 5:15,17 and 6:23.

So 11:29 is irrefutable as OSAS. God's gifts and calling are irrevocable.

But, as Isaiah said, some have eyes that don't see and ears that don't hear. Please don't close your eyes to the truth. If you would open them, you would understand with your heart.

God's gifts are irrevocable, just ask Lucifer, he still has the power and authority that was granted to him by God.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

This is interesting.

Yes, it is. And exciting.

5 crowns?
Do we wear them?

What does one normally do with a crown?

Line them up on our mantle to display them to others?
Be given a bigger mansion?

I sense from your sarcasm that you aren't all that impressed with the promise of rewards that God has made to faithful believers.

Have control over peoples lives while others are sweeping floors?

Paul said that if we (believers) endure, we will REIGN with Christ. Who do you suppose we'll be reigning over? Surely angels, but all those believers who didn't endure.

How does it all work?

By God's grace.

 

[FreeGrace]

It's utterly ridiculous to mean this verse that way. If this verse was like that then this should be the talk of Christian era. This kind of peculiar statement are coming from this generation new grace preachers and not of those old chaps. Let others come into this. I just want to hear others opinion on this but for me it looks ridiculous.

Sorry you feel that way, but how do you understand what Paul was saying? Esp since Paul added "that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord".

You said this:
"I don't underestand what you mean by "could ever seen heaven"."

That was on a lighter note Just chill

It didn't make sense. The temperature has nothing to do with your nonsensical statement.

You statement of a believer who is continually sinning and getting destroyed by Satan is completely baseless.

Please tell that to Paul, who wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Let others also come into this. I want to hear others in this matter not just you

"Let others"??? As if I've not let anyone chime in??? What kind of power do you think I have??

We are satan's enemies and the only way satan can catch us is when we sin against God. You do know the accuser......…..

Yep. Sure do. But what does this response have to do with what I posted, which was this:
"Are you not aware of God's wrath against sin, for both believer and unbeliever?"

You didn't answer the question. I'm not sure of what you are aware of.

According to the bible God put an hedge around him so that Satan couldn't touch him. This is same with all believers.

I recommend a review of ch 1 and 2 then. Satan definitely did "touch" him. And he suffered greatly for it. But I guess you were unaware of that.

Paul never meant of what you are thinking.

How do you know? Have you read his mind? I'm taking what he said literally. I have no idea how you understand it.

It's you that are twisting the verses and not Paul.

OK, can you back up this charge with some substantiation? Throwing claims without any evidence or support doesn't go very far in my book. If my view can be refuted (not just disagreed with), then please proceed.

Please don't bring Paul or the Holy Spirit into this.

Why not? Paul wrote 1 Cor and was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Your argument is with them, not me.

It's ridiculous to make someone believe that a man who continues to live a sinful life will make to heaven.

I see these vague statements all the time from the non-OSASers, but they give no support for their claims. OK, it's ridiculous to you. So what? It seems to me that you are simply unaware of what Scripture actually says.

Can you cite any verse that tells you in plain and unambiguous words that one can lose their salvation, new birth, eternal life, justification, or adoption as sons? If so, please proceed. If you can't, why in the world would you believe something that you cannot find support for in Scripture?

If that is so then every man in this world would opt for that choice.

What "choice"? Please clarify. It seems to me that your view is colored by your being so unaware of eternal rewards, that you cannot understand how believers are motivated towards faithfulness. To you and your ilk, one must continue to do something, whether it's faith or good works. That is definitely not grace. So it seems to me that you don't understand eternal reward or grace.

God has 2 ways to motivate His children, just as human parents do. One is to reward obedience and the other is to punish disobedience. Unfortunately, your view has God killing His children who misbehave. Not at all Scriptural.

I've given plenty of evidence from Scripture that God does not kill His children.

Because sin is the only medium where we are attached to this world.

What does this have to do with OSAS?

 

[Jesse]

You've misquoted the passage.
"if we endure, we will reign with him".
That relates to staying with Christ to the end, which includes everyone that is saved.
It has nothing to do with the works we do here on earth.

If it includes every single Christian, who would believers be reigning over?

 

[FreeGrace]

God's gifts are irrevocable, just ask Lucifer, he still has the power and authority that was granted to him by God.JLB

Please show me where in Scripture where any of the devil's power and authority is called a gift. Otherwise, your point will not be taken.

What you and your ilk are ignoring is the context for Rom 11:29. Paul identified those who have believed as "called" in 1:5,6,7 and 8:28,30, and described God's gifts as righteousness in 5:15,17 and eternal life in 6:23. By the time the readers of Romans reached 11:29, they would know exactly what Paul was talking about.

Further, if that's not enough for you, Paul eliminated anything in the future as being able to separate His children from His love (8:38). This would include the possibility of loss of faith because Paul didn't give exceptions to what may occur in the future. You may, but he didn't, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

The heavy weight of Scripture crushes the view of conditional security.

 

[Jesse]

Could you share some scriptures about "rewards'.


Thanks JLB

Ok, here are some, but each one of these seems to be saying it's one reward - maybe it's eternal life? Which is the Crown of Life?

What do you think?

Mathew 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

1 Cor 3:14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward

Rev 22:12 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done

 

[Ricko]

Sorry you feel that way, but how do you understand what Paul was saying? Esp since Paul added "that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord".

Paul said so that his spirit may be saved, not that his spirit will be saved. Paul prayed to deliver him to satan. That would either bring him back to God if he were a true believer, or would reveal he was never genuine beliver at all.

 

[JLB]

Ok, here are some, but each one of these seems to be saying it's one reward - maybe it's eternal life? Which is the Crown of Life?

What do you think?

Mathew 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

1 Cor 3:14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward

Rev 22:12 "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done

James says it this way -

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

and Paul -

7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. 2 Timothy 4:7



JLB

 

[Jesse]

James says it this way -

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. James 1:12

and Paul -

7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. 2 Timothy 4:7



JLB

This is exactly what I was taught before!

The reward IS the crown of life.

What about 1 Cor 3:15, a man's work will be tested by fire, he will suffer loss but still be saved. What will the loss be?

 

[JLB]

Please show me where in Scripture where any of the devil's power and authority is called a gift. Otherwise, your point will not be taken.

What you and your ilk are ignoring is the context for Rom 11:29. Paul identified those who have believed as "called" in 1:5,6,7 and 8:28,30, and described God's gifts as righteousness in 5:15,17 and eternal life in 6:23. By the time the readers of Romans reached 11:29, they would know exactly what Paul was talking about.

Further, if that's not enough for you, Paul eliminated anything in the future as being able to separate His children from His love (8:38). This would include the possibility of loss of faith because Paul didn't give exceptions to what may occur in the future. You may, but he didn't, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

The heavy weight of Scripture crushes the view of conditional security.

Please show me where in Scripture where any of the devil's power and authority is called a gift. Otherwise, your point will not be taken.

Please show me the scripture that says Lucifer's authority and power were not a gift from God.


Paul warned Christians -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Christians who practice the works of the flesh, will not be grated access into the Kingdom of God.

Christians who practice unrighteousness will not be welcome in the Kingdom of God.

8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:8-10





JLB

 

[JLB]

This is exactly what I was taught before!

The reward IS the crown of life.

What about 1 Cor 3:15, a man's work will be tested by fire, he will suffer loss but still be saved. What will the loss be?

People

 

[Chopper]

Wow!!!!!!!!!! this thread has exploded! Oh boy, this is fun fun fun. AND lets keep it that way. I'm not a Mod. in this thread, but I would like to see some genuine posts without any hateful remarks.

Some of you know my doctrine of balance when dealing with this particular subject of OSAS. The people that make up the entire population of professing Christians are made up of two groups. The "Elect" Ephesians 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:1:5 Having predestined us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace."

The other group is the non elect. 2Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." This group is what I call the "General Call of the Gospel.
faithful to the wishes and will of God.

ELECT: Scripture clearly teaches that there is a group, I call them "God's Remnant" because God has always had a remnant of people who have been faithful to follow God's commands. It may only be one, at various times, or a small group at other times. They travel on the "narrow road" and are a delight to our Heavenly Father....These people cannot loose their Salvation. They fit into what we call OSAS because it was God's will to hand pick these people before the foundations of the world. Remember, God cannot fail to keep what He has willed to exist.

NON-ELECT: Or General Call of the Gospel. These are people who are going their merry way and happen to see and hear Billy Graham on television and pay attention to his invitation to Salvation. He agrees and trusts Jesus as his Savior. My good friend JLB posted this good verse, Hebrews 3:12-14 "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end." Now, these people do not have the guarantee that the "elect" do. They must guard their Christian life being careful not to slip back into a sinful lifestyle, displaying that they were really not serious when they thought they were saved. Some of this group will be successful maintaining a good Christian lifestyle right up to their death or resurrection.

This has been a quick and simple explanation of my doctrine and I'll be happy to defend it against any other doctrine, because this is the Truth!

 

[Jesse]

People

What people?

Is it other believers?

 

[Chopper]

I see it as the Book of life/the Lamb's Book as the same book as all of those who are saved.The book of the living as all of those who have been born on this earth.

You are free to believe anything you want and so am I. We can in love, believe different ideas.

 

[JLB]

What people?

Is it other believers?

9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

 

[Chopper]

Hi Chopper,

I'm not arguing with you because I don't know for sure, but in Psalms 69 it talks about "let their names be erased from the book of life and not be recorded with the righteous" and also in Psalms 9 it talks about erasing their names forever from the book of life. Other verses indicate their names will be blotted out of the book of life.

If there were 2 books, wouldn't it be that no one's name be blotted out of the book of life, because they did exist?

No true believer can be blotted out of the lamb's book of life, IMO.

 

[Jesse]

No true believer can be blotted out of the lamb's book of life, IMO.

You'll have to show where there are two books, I only see one.

God does tell us he will blot people out of the book of life, if that is not what those verses mean, then what does he mean when he says, "I will blot them out of the book of life"?

Thanks.

 

[Chopper]

It means to depart from the faith.

Without faith, there is no salvation.

Without faith it is impossible to please God.


No Faith = No Salvation

Believe for a while = saved for a while.


JLB

Not really truly saved my friend.