PAUL WROTE DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PRETRIB RAPTURE TEACHERS

Paul addressed the Pretribulation Rapture teachers in 2Th 2:1-5. When someone told the Thessalonians the rapture was at hand or could happen at any moment, the Thessalonians became confused about what Paul taught them. The fellow who said this was a Pretribulation Rapture teacher because when he said the rapture could happen at any moment the Antichrist had not yet emerged on the scene. In other words, he was teaching the rapture occurs before the Antichrist rises to power. In order for the Thessalonians to become confused about what Paul taught them they must have esteemed the Pretribulation Rapture teacher as Pastors are esteemed by believers today; otherwise the believers would not have taken him seriously. When Paul heard about this he wrote the letter recorded in 2Th. 2:1-5 and told the Thessalonians not to listen to the Pretribulation Rapture teacher because the rapture or our gathering to the Lord does not occur until after the the falling away and after the Antichrist seats himself in Jerusalem displaying himself as God. The scriptures tell us the Antichrist doesn’t seat himself in Jerusalem until 3 1/2 years after he emerges on the scene.

2Th. 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you may not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

 

[jamesdalbright]

Sounds more like you think your personal "revelation" over scriptures. You are not alone. This is quite common. "I hear personally from Jesus and you dare not question my opinion or else I will call you nasty names!!" So much for hearing from Christ personally. Anyone who hears from Christ personally ACTS as he acted when facing opposition. He did not call his opponents nasty names.

You haven't studies the scriptures. If you did you would have been able to correlated the Old and New Testament scriptures with the scriptures that pertain to the Antichrist in the Book of the Revelation. When the Antichrist emerges on the scene and becomes the leader of the Woke anti-Christian movement you will see if you genuinely beleived in Jesus yet. If you realign yourself with the Woke it will be because you haven't genuinely believed in Jesus yet.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Again you are mixing up your guys. John mentioned "antichrist" in his letters but never in the description of the Revelation.

The False Prophet hasn't called fire down out heaven in the presence of the Antichrist yet. No one has been required to take the Antichrists mark in their right hand or forehead yet and no one has been thrown alive into the Lake of Fire yet. Consequently the Antichrist in the Bible hasn't emerged yet. Read the scriptures.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Matt. 24 is what will befall Israel approaching the Tribulation. It's all about them!

The main purpose of the Great Tribulation is Israel coming to Christ as a nation.

If this is not recognized, then everything goes off the rails.

The scriptures tell us the gentile believers will be present on the earth until the resurrection that takes place after Babylon the great is judged.
Rev. 19:1 After these things I heard, as it were, a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “ Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God; 2 BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER.” 3 And a second time they said, “ Hallelujah! HER SMOKE RISES UP FOREVER AND EVER.” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne saying, “ Amen. Hallelujah!” 5 And a voice came from the throne, saying, “ Give praise to our God, all you His bond-servants, you who fear Him, the small and the great.” 6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude and as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, “ Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns. 7 “Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” 8 And it was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 And he said to me, “ Write, ‘ Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he said to me, “ These are true words of God.”

 

[jamesdalbright]

Time will tell for sure.

You mean time will tell that you are wrong.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The False Prophet hasn't called fire down out heaven in the presence of the Antichrist yet. No one has been required to take the Antichrists mark in their right hand or forehead yet and no one has been thrown alive into the Lake of Fire yet. Consequently the Antichrist in the Bible hasn't emerged yet. Read the scriptures.

Revelation is largely metaphor. Calling down fire isn’t a 4th July show. The “mark” isn’t a tattoo, neither the mark of the saints nor the mark of the beast. It’s a metaphor and it’s over.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You haven't studies the scriptures.

Ah, the personal attack when losing. It so happens I’ve studied them intensely.You ought to be more careful when using that accusation towards who don’t accept your “personal” revelation from Jesus. But your casting aspersions shows me Jesus isn’t the one revealing info to you or he’d correct this unchristlike response.

If you did you would have been able to correlated the Old and New Testament scriptures with the scriptures that pertain to the Antichrist in the Book of the Revelation.

What makes you think I can’t???

When the Antichrist emerges on the scene and becomes the leader of the Woke anti-Christian movement you will see if you genuinely beleived in Jesus yet.

Nonsense. When you’ve lived out your life and see that no world bogeyman ever came on the scene and took over the nations, that you believed untruths.

If you realign yourself with the Woke it will be because you haven't genuinely believed in Jesus yet.

IOW, “agree with me on my personal revelation of eschatology or you aren’t a genuine believer.” That’s something no one who receives understanding from Jesus would ever say, I’m afraid.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Below are Revelation scriptures that refer to activities associated with the Antichrist.
Rev. 6:12 pertains to when the Antichrist breaks the peace treaty.

John coined the term “Antichrist” and didn’t use that word here. That’s you own personal interpretation.

Rev. 6:12 And I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. 14 And the sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17 for the great day of their wrath has come; and who is able to stand?”

Rev. 11:1-13 marks the time the Antichrist breaks the peace treaty.

John was the one who invented the germans DID NOT use it there because he knew that wasn’t the same. That’s a personal interpretation.

Rev. 11:1 And there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Rise and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship in it.

Temple still standing…..written before 70 AD.

2 “And leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. 3 “And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 And if anyone desires to harm them, fire proceeds out of their mouth and devours their enemies; and if anyone would desire to harm them, in this manner he must be killed. 6 These have the power to shut up the sky, in order that rain may not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they desire. 7 And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 And those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. 11 And after the three and a half days the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were beholding them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “ Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies beheld them. 13 And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; and seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Rev. 13:1-18 pertains the Antichrist led fourth and final beast and the False Prophet he will employ.

Nope, that’s just what YOU want it to say.

These scriptures pertain to when the Antichrist requires everyone to take his mark ignorer to buy or sell.

No, that is not. But I know those who hold this exciting eschatology love looking forward to that day.

Rev. 13:1 And he stood on the sand of the seashore. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. 2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 and they worshiped the dragon, because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “ Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?” 5 And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. 8 And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.11 And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. 13 And he performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. 15 And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

There's an advantage for me, I thoroughly know your eschatology having learned of Dispensationalism decades ago before I knew other views are possible. So I understand your position whereas you don’t understand mine. It’s a real advantage.

 

[jamesdalbright]

John was told and wrote about the same activities that Matt, Mark and Luke wrote about and associated with the Antichrist. This is called correlating the scriptures or letting the scriptures build the picture. You are guilty of purposefully not correlating the scriptures in order to make them say that there isn't going to be a Antichrist and False Prophet. Your mistake is obvious to all.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

John was told and wrote about the same activities that Matt, Mark and Luke wrote about and associated with the Antichrist. This is called correlating the scriptures or letting the scriptures build the picture. You are guilty of purposefully not correlating the scriptures in order to make them say that there isn't going to be a Antichrist and False Prophet. Your mistake is obvious to all.

John was told and wrote about the same activities that Matt, Mark and Luke wrote about and associated with the Antichrist. This is called correlating the scriptures or letting the scriptures build the picture. You are guilty of purposefully not correlating the scriptures in order to make them say that there isn't going to be a Antichrist and False Prophet. Your mistake is obvious to all.

John was told and wrote about the same activities that Matt, Mark and Luke wrote about and associated with the Antichrist.

Please quote to us where Matthew, Mark and Luke mentioned the “Antichrist?” And no you deciding on your own that that’s who they meant. Anyone can decide that’s so about anyone.

This is called correlating the scriptures or letting the scriptures build the picture.

IOW, adjusting what was written to match ones prechosen eschatology.

You are guilty of purposefully not correlating the scriptures in order to make them say that there isn't going to be an Antichrist and False Prophet.

Never said that.

Your mistake is obvious to all.

Na! No mistake there.

 

[Annagrace]

Another problem with Dispensationalism, even the atheists can see the faults.

The rapture is not in the Bible anywhere. What is described is the Resurrection where the dead in Christ arise. That’s the Resurrection.

The rapture is a made-up fantasy for those who want to bear the Christian name without ever having to undergo any kind of trouble/persecution in this life. Believing in the rapture provides them with a false sense of security/comfort I think. Anyone who’s read the Bible (esp the OT) knows that God never misses an opportunity to test His people. The tough times will certainly reveal those who are truly in Christ from the fakers (those who belong to “convenient Christianity”). Those who aren’t willing to die at any given second for His names sake aren’t truly His.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The rapture is a made-up fantasy for those who want to bear the Christian name without ever having to undergo any kind of trouble/persecution in this life. Believing in the rapture provides them with a false sense of security/comfort I think. Anyone who’s read the Bible (esp the OT) knows that God never misses an opportunity to test His people. The tough times will certainly reveal those who are truly in Christ from the fakers (those who belong to “convenient Christianity”). Those who aren’t willing to die at any given second for His names sake aren’t truly His.

Yes I agree, but the theology has done a great deal of damage to the cause of Christ.

 

[Scripture Says]

The rapture is a made-up fantasy for those who want to bear the Christian name without ever having to undergo any kind of trouble/persecution in this life. Believing in the rapture provides them with a false sense of security/comfort I think. Anyone who’s read the Bible (esp the OT) knows that God never misses an opportunity to test His people. The tough times will certainly reveal those who are truly in Christ from the fakers (those who belong to “convenient Christianity”). Those who aren’t willing to die at any given second for His names sake aren’t truly His.

Of course that only applies to those who believe in a pre trib rapture...

 

[Annagrace]

Of course that only applies to those who believe in a pre trib rapture...

Yeah but pre trib rapture isn’t supported by scripture.

 

[Scripture Says]

Yeah but pre trib rapture isn’t supported by scripture.

Yeah but thats not what you said... you said the rapture taught that christians would escape the tribulation and I pointed out only the pre trip rapture does and not all raptures or gathering together teach an escape....

 

[Scripture Says]

Dorothy said: The rapture is a made-up fantasy for those who want to bear the Christian name without ever having to undergo any kind of trouble/persecution in this life...

Scripture Says: im sure your aware that people are dying for Christ today and decided not to wait for the rapture either way.

 

[Scripture Says]

James said: When someone told the Thessalonians the rapture was at hand or could happen at any moment, the Thessalonians became confused

Scripture Says: no one said anything to the thessalonians about the rapture being at hand.... paul was writing this Before hand to warn them of such a teaching..... this is why paul writes..

I dont want you to be SOON troubled.... soon meaning In the future (after they get pauls letter).. Even if you get (seemingly) a letter from me or word or even if a spirit comes...
He then tells them that 2 things must happen before the gathering together with Christ.

1. Falling away happens
2. Man of sin comes

If you believe the gathering together happens before these 2 things (pre trib rapture) youve been decieved

So clearly there is a gathering together or rapture but this warns against a pre trib belief... God knew in these last days that would be the number 1 teaching amongst Christians.


I say the falling away happens mainly to the who believe in a pre trib rapture and when they are faced with a tribulation world not mentally physically or spiritually ready thats when people fall away in mass...

The Holy Spirit says in the latter days some will depart the faith... only a believer can depart the faith.... unbelievers cannot fall away ever.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy said: The rapture is a made-up fantasy for those who want to bear the Christian name without ever having to undergo any kind of trouble/persecution in this life...

Scripture Says: im sure your aware that people are dying for Christ today and decided not to wait for the rapture either way.

How can scripture tell us how informed people are today? And another note, people are not dying for Christ because they decided not to wait for the rapture. Those two are not connected. The rapture theology offers people a future escape from the tribulation that is supposedly coming. It does not address any discomfort one experiences today.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy said: The rapture is a made-up fantasy for those who want to bear the Christian name without ever having to undergo any kind of trouble/persecution in this life...

Scripture Says: im sure your aware that people are dying for Christ today and decided not to wait for the rapture either way.

Actually Annagrace said that.

 

[jamesdalbright]

Please quote to us where Matthew, Mark and Luke mentioned the “Antichrist?” And no you deciding on your own that that’s who they meant. Anyone can decide that’s so about anyone.

IOW, adjusting what was written to match ones prechosen eschatology.

Never said that.

Na! No mistake there.

THE IDEA THAT IF THE WORD ANTICHRIST DOESN'T APPEAR IN A VERSE IT ISN'T TALKING ABOUT THE ANTICHRIST IS A FALSE TEACHING.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy said: The rapture is a made-up fantasy for those who want to bear the Christian name without ever having to undergo any kind of trouble/persecution in this life...

Scripture Says: im sure your aware that people are dying for Christ today and decided not to wait for the rapture either way.

Actually Annagrace said that.

THE IDEA THAT IF THE WORD ANTICHRIST DOESN'T APPEAR IN A VERSE IT ISN'T TALKING ABOUT THE ANTICHRIST IS A FALSE TEACHING.

I am laughing. If this is not the cheapest was to get out of the request to show scripture that I ever heard. Just because scripture does not say what you believe does not mean it is not still true. Where have I heard that before?