Peter not the rock nor the first Pope

[for_his_glory]

That makes no sense given Simon is continued to be called Cephas...

Bible, King James Version

Furthermore, given your interpretation, our Blessed Lord would've said, "You are likened to a rock..." Instead, he says, "You ARE Peter..."

I will leave you this.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus used Caesarea Philippi to show that evil which the Disciples saw with their own eyes that of what they would come up against being the gates of hell found on that literal large rock. Jesus was confirming Peter's confession preparing them before they were sent out into the world as the gates of hell can not prevail against Gods true Church being the body of Christ with He being the head of the body. It was Paul that first established the Church in Philippi, Acts 16:10. It's faith that builds the church like that of Peter's confession of who Jesus is.

 

[JLB]

Jesus is the Priest, but His Church has priests. (Heb 4:14, Heb 5:6, Rev. 20:6)

Yes, we all who are Christians are priests, both men and women unto our God.

Peter says it this way --


But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10

 

[Walpole]

I will leave you this.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus used Caesarea Philippi to show that evil which the Disciples saw with their own eyes that of what they would come up against being the gates of hell found on that literal large rock. Jesus was confirming Peter's confession preparing them before they were sent out into the world as the gates of hell can not prevail against Gods true Church being the body of Christ with He being the head of the body. It was Paul that first established the Church in Philippi, Acts 16:10. It's faith that builds the church like that of Peter's confession of who Jesus is.

I will leave you with this...

Peter was not the first to make a confession about Jesus' identity. It was Peter's brother, Andrew, along with Nathaniel, who first made the proclamation that Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ and the Son of God...

"... Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter. He, first of all, found his own brother Simon, and told him, 'We have discovered the Messias, which means, the Christ'". (John 1:40-41)

"Then Nathaniel answered him, 'Thou, Master, art the Son of God.'" (John 1:49)


Yet these men who first acknowledge Christ are not declared to be the rock.

 

[Walpole]

Yes, we all who are Christians are priests, both men and women unto our God.

Peter says it this way --


But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10

Yes, of course.

Not sure how you think that negates Jesus calling Peter, and only Peter, the rock.

A good reminder that only Peter is called the protos.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It's hardly a generalization. Simon is singled out by Jesus. Why is Simon called Peter?

Jesus is the Rock by right; Peter by delegation. Once again, the Church is an extension of the Incarnation. Hence...

Jesus is the Rock, but His Church has rocks. (1 Cor 10:4, Mt. 16:18)
Jesus is the foundation, but the Church has foundations. (1 Cor 3:11, Eph 2:20)
Jesus is the Shepherd, but His Church has shepherds. (John 10:11, John 21:16, Jeremiah 3:15)
Jesus is the Priest, but His Church has priests. (Heb 4:14, Heb 5:6, Rev. 20:6)
Jesus is the light of the world, but His Church is the light of the world. (John 8:12, Mt. 5:14)

As a side note, Peter's name is mentioned more often than all the other disciples put together: 191 times (162 as Peter or Simon Peter, 23 as Simon and 6 as Cephas). John is next in frequency with only 48 appearances, and Peter is present 50 percent of the time we find John in the Bible. Archbishop Fulton Sheen reckoned that all the other disciples combined were mentioned 130 times. If this is correct, Peter is named a remarkable 60 percent of the time any disciple is referred to.

Hardly a generalization!

Quantity is not quality, just because Peter was mentioned more often than other disciples doesn’t mean he was the “delegate”, true heir of Jesus or first pope. If you read about him carefully, he’s mostly portrayed in a negative way in the gospels. He was a hot head, impulsive and opinionated, often speaking out of turn such as at the transfiguration event without processing the information in his brain; he swore to die for follow Jesus, then he denied the Lord three times, and keep in mind that while Jesus was being tried by the Sanhedrin, the religious elites, Peter was facing a servant girl, she identified him and that scared him to death. Later when Mary Magdalene led him and John to the tomb, John saw the stone rolled away and he immediately got it, Peter went in to investigate and still didn’t get it. Even after the Pentecost, he still struggled with associating with gentiles, God had to persuade him with a dream. In summary, He is a microcosm of spiritually immature Christians who share his character flaws.

In contrast, Jesus later chose Paul to preach the gospel to the world, most Christian theologies are Pauline doctrines constructed upon the message in his letters, we hardly hear about Peter after Paul’s conversion in Acts; also, John was the one and only BELOVED disciple of Jesus, he was present at the crucifixion, and he was the last disciple who received the final message from the Lord which earned him the title John the Revelator. These are some inconvenient facts that serious challenge your theory. Jesus also called Peter Satan when he rebuked Jesus for going to Jerusalem, does that make him Satan?

 

[JLB]

Yes, of course.

Not sure how you think that negates Jesus calling Peter, and only Peter, the rock.

A good reminder that only Peter is called the protos.

Priest's are not some special class of Christian.

We are all, men and women, priests, which is why the scripture says...

Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. James 5:16


The rock that the church is built upon is Jesus being confessed as the Son of the living God, because God revealed it directly to them.

That is the promise of the New Covenant.


But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27

 

[CherubRam]

The Rock and Peter

Isaiah 28:16
So this is what the Sovereign Lord says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who relies on it will never be stricken with panic.

Isaiah 33:6
He will be the sure foundation for your times, a rich store of salvation and wisdom and knowledge; the fear of the Lord is the key to this treasure.

Matthew 7:24
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on The Rock.

Matthew 7:25
The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on The Rock.





Matthew 16:18
I call you Peter, but upon The Rock I will build my congregation, and the gates of the grave will not overcome it.



Deuteronomy 32:4
He is The Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

Deuteronomy 32:15
Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, they became heavy and sleek. They abandoned the God who made them and rejected The Rock their Savior.

2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God besides (the Lord / Yahwah?) And who is The Rock except our God?

2 Samuel 22:47
(“The Lord / Yahwah) lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be my God, The Rock, my Savior!

2 Samuel 23:3
The God of Israel spoke, The Rock of Israel said to me: ‘When one rules over people in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Priest's are not some special class of Christian.

I doubt that. Paul ordained bishops and deacons in 1 Tim. 3 as church leaders to teach the word of God and rebuke false doctrines, there's a distinction between the laity and the clergy, i.e. the amateurs and the experts. In fact, in Revelation 2-3, the name "Laodicea" literally means "rule of the laity", that's a sign of apostasy, the defection from sound teaching, which Paul had predicted.

 

[JLB]

I doubt that. Paul ordained bishops and deacons in 1 Tim. 3 as church leaders to teach the word of God and rebuke false doctrines, there's a distinction between the laity and the clergy, i.e. the amateurs and the experts. In fact, in Revelation 2-3, the name "Laodicea" literally means "rule of the laity", that's a sign of apostasy, the defection from sound teaching, which Paul had predicted.

Of course there is church leadership.

However we are all priests. Both men and women.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Of course there is church leadership.

However we are all priests. Both men and women.

Or evangelists, as opposed to the heathens; while within the body of christ, there're ordained clergy and laity, this distinction is undeniable.

 

[JLB]

Or evangelists, as opposed to the heathens; while within the body of christ, there're ordained clergy and laity, this distinction is undeniable.

What distinction are you referring to?


Why do you keep mentioning laity and clergy?


Please provide scripture that uses these terms, "clergy" and "laity".

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

What distinction are you referring to?


Why do you keep mentioning laity and clergy?


Please provide scripture that uses these terms, "clergy" and "laity".

Those are theological terms to describe church leader and the congregation, just because they're not used in Scripture doesn't mean they don't exist. Aren't bishop and deacon not clergy?

 

[JLB]

Aren't bishop and deacon not clergy?

Yes bishop and deacon are part of the leadership structure of the Church.

However, I only made the point that all members of the church; born again Christians are priests, both men and women.


You keep bringing up leadership structure.


Do you agree that we all are priests?


But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 1 Peter 2:9

 

[for_his_glory]

Those are theological terms to describe church leader and the congregation, just because they're not used in Scripture doesn't mean they don't exist. Aren't bishop and deacon not clergy?

When you look up the positions of Bishop, Elder and Deacon they are all pretty much the same as found in 1Timothy 3:1-13. The definition of clergy is the body of all people ordained for the Christian duties within the body of Christ.

Biblical Eldership | Grace Community Church

www.gracechurch.org

The Bishop's Role in the Bible: How Often Is It Mentioned? | Christian Pure

Discover the biblical significance of the term "bishop" and uncover the number of times it appears in the sacred text.

www.christianpure.com

Bible Verses about Deacons — Bible Lyfe

Diakonos is an ancient Greek word that is often translated as “servant” or “minister” in the Bible. It is used to describe the role of deacons in the early church, the character and behavior of believers, and the work of ministry.

www.biblelyfe.com

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Do you agree that we all are priests?

I’ve already told you, we are all priests to the rest of the world, to those outside the church, but not necessarily to our fellow brothers and sisters inside the church. In other words, from the world’s POV, yes, we Christians are all “priests”, but within the church, there’s the distinction of laity and clergy, those who teach and those who listen.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

When you look up the positions of Bishop, Elder and Deacon they are all pretty much the same as found in 1Timothy 3:1-13. The definition of clergy is the body of all people ordained for the Christian duties within the body of Christ.

Look man, just think of it in this way, Lord Jesus distributes his spiritual gifts according to each servant’s ABILITY, bishop is like a five talent job, deacon a two talent job, and the rest one. Not all of us are bishops and deacons because not all of us can handle that many talents, for “to him much is given, much is required.” Some like the wicked and lazy servant can’t even handle one, he buried it and thus forfeited his talent. If we’re given one talent, the least we can do is doing our job and managing it well. Even within the body of Christ, there’re still different members and organs, and not all are created equal.

 

[JLB]

I’ve already told you, we are all priests to the rest of the world, to those outside the church, but not necessarily to our fellow brothers and sisters inside the church. In other words, from the world’s POV, yes, we Christians are all “priests”, but within the church, there’s the distinction of laity and clergy, those who teach and those who listen.

We being priests has nothing to do with the world.

Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. James 5:16

 

[for_his_glory]

Look man, just think of it in this way, Lord Jesus distributes his spiritual gifts according to each servant’s ABILITY, bishop is like a five talent job, deacon a two talent job, and the rest one. Not all of us are bishops and deacons because not all of us can handle that many talents, for “to him much is given, much is required.” Some like the wicked and lazy servant can’t even handle one, he buried it and thus forfeited his talent. If we’re given one talent, the least we can do is doing our job and managing it well. Even within the body of Christ, there’re still different members and organs, and not all are created equal.

Just remember a servant is not greater then another nor their Master. All are placed where God wants them to be and anointed and gifted by the Holy Spirit for the purpose of God's ministry. Please read 1Corinthians 12 as man is not self appointed.

BTW, I'm a woman.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Just remember a servant is not greater then another nor their Master. All are placed where God wants them to be and anointed and gifted by the Holy Spirit for the purpose of God's ministry. Please read 1Corinthians 12 as man is not self appointed.

But some servants are greater than others, some are spiritually more mature than other, understanding the Scripture better; some endure hardship and remain faithful to God, they truly bear fruit; others are disheartened and backsliding. This is both a biblical warning and a reality we’re living in.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

We being priests has nothing to do with the world.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the world, as we’re the ambassadors of God, the world gets to know God through us, that’s what it means to be a priesthood. Just a reminder, no Christian is born as a Christian, all Christians are born AGAIN as Christians. Before this rebirth, we were all of the “world”.