Poll re. good tattoo artist career for a Christian woman

[farouk]

Okay, you've got me started thinking about a tattoo. The problem that I have, that I imagine all might have, would be the stumbling points that I might set in doing so. ..

Sparrowhawke:

Ty for your comments (don't embarrass me ) ; re. what you said earlier, above, I appreciate very much that this your own conscience on the matter. Do you think that for example a Scripture text or reference, being such a direct witness for the truth and a potential talking point to others, can outweigh any possible negative aspects that might be in your mind?

Just to give an example: I talked to a guy as a result of the fact that he had the entire text John 3.16 done painstakingly on his arm. I'm sure that my conversation with him would hardly be only one that he has had. (Maybe it's not even necessary to have the whole text done; maybe only a phrase or ref., for it still to be a talking point.)

You see what I mean? I'm certainly not challenging your own conscience on the matter; just that others, thus motivated, might reasonably think this would be a great witness opportunity?

Blessings.

 

[Kaileymarie]

Farouk, what verse would you get tattooed on yourself?

 

[farouk]

You've heard about (I don't know when exactly - the 60's? 70's?) the mistake for a male getting a single earring in the "wrong" earlobe? Some say that it sends a message. The concept is similar for tats on the left arm. How did "Sinister," the Latin word for left-handed come about?. What evolution of meaning turned left-handed into evil and threatening? (Rhetorical)

Duh....never would have thought of that but sure.

Deborah:

On reflection, seems to me that today, just as men and women get tattooed equally, so also they tattoo left and right arms equally. (E.g., from the Christian rock band Skillet, Korey has her right arm tattooed and Jen Ledger has her left arm tattooed).

Maybe Lexy and her professor have other insights, anyway? it was an interesting contribution anyway.

Blessings.

No insight, he was just saying that some people will find things to be critical about and some of these things have nothing to do with the other person's Christian faith or walk.

Deborah13:

Oh okay, and this is true!

Re. insights, you or Lexy let us know if you have more insights into all this, anyway.

(Say hi to Lexy, too.)

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Farouk, what verse would you get tattooed on yourself?

Kaileymarie:

Thanks for the question. Whether it will actually happen is another aspect but in terms of verse ref. ideas: 'John 3.16' in nice, ornate lettering might be an idea. (Are you thinking of some possible options?) Also I mentioned John 14.27, above, and 1 Corinthians 15.55.

I think it's important for the person getting it, for the verse to be one that has definitely blessed him or her. (Are there any verses that stand out in your mind for you?)

Anyone else have ideas about a suitable verse ref.? (a simple ref. rather than the quote in full, maybe, or just a phrase?)

Blessings.

 

[Sparkey]

[please think of an] example [of] a Scripture text or reference [that could be used in this manner] being such a direct witness for the truth [that it could be a justified use]

Okay, I've changed what you said into what I heard. If you agree that's what you're asking for, here's my reply: Yes, I am able to think of tons of examples where the Spirit of the Law overrides the letter. Here's one: Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, and when his disciples were criticized for gleaning fields (and 'working') He defended them. He even quoted an example where David broke the idea that they had about "shewbread" just because he was hungry. The concept that I could call to mind here is that we know that these things are "for us" and not "against us". I'd be willing to defend the use that you are speaking about.

The truth of the matter is that the only reason that cutting (not specifically ink) was prohibited was BECAUSE it was used primarily by heathen to identify with worship of their gods. We are no longer identified by body marks, but in the inward man and it is a very clear marking that others can see too. It's not because of the tee-shirts that some Christians wear that they will know us. They will know us by our love, one for another. That's the solid of it all. We are not looking at "signs" anymore but looking at hearts and each person is a testimony of the work that has been done in him.

There is a difference between the stubborn people who were taken out of slavery and complained about it, between those who were invited to come up to the mountain but feared for their lives... and those who followed closely after the Savior as they beheld them. The strict law was for one group. The outcome of that law, changed hearts, was for the other. We will all do well (self included) to ponder these things as part of being able to go from milk to meat. The whole bible testifies that even the lives of the ones that went before us were guided by the Holy Spirit for our benefit and not for our detriment.

But before somebody quotes the "weaker brother" argument, let me remind that I am not advocating but instead am imagining a defense. I think it's a solid defense. Especially when we look at how often it is said, "if it is sin, to you? Don't do it." and things like that in this thread.

 

[farouk]

[please think of an] example [of] a Scripture text or reference [that could be used in this manner] being such a direct witness for the truth [that it could be a justified use]

Okay, I've changed what you said into what I heard. If you agree that's what you're asking for, here's my reply: Yes, I am able to think of tons of examples where the Spirit of the Law overrides the letter. Here's one: Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, and when his disciples were criticized for gleaning fields (and 'working') He defended them. He even quoted an example where David broke the idea that they had about "shewbread" just because he was hungry. The concept that I could call to mind here is that we know that these things are "for us" and not "against us". I'd be willing to defend the use that you are speaking about.

The truth of the matter is that the only reason that cutting (not specifically ink) was prohibited was BECAUSE it was used primarily by heathen to identify with worship of their gods. We are no longer identified by body marks, but in the inward man and it is a very clear marking that others can see too. It's not because of the tee-shirts that some Christians wear that they will know us. They will know us by our love, one for another. That's the solid of it all. We are not looking at "signs" anymore but looking at hearts and each person is a testimony of the work that has been done in him.

There is a difference between the stubborn people who were taken out of slavery and complained about it, between those who were invited to come up to the mountain but feared for their lives... and those who followed closely after the Savior as they beheld them. The strict law was for one group. The outcome of that law, changed hearts, was for the other. We will all do well (self included) to ponder these things as part of being able to go from milk to meat. The whole bible testifies that even the lives of the ones that went before us were guided by the Holy Spirit for our benefit and not for our detriment.

But before somebody quotes the "weaker brother" argument, let me remind that I am not advocating but instead am imagining a defense. I think it's a solid defense. Especially when we look at how often it is said, "if it is sin, to you? Don't do it." and things like that in this thread.

Thank-you Sparrowhawke for your considered ideas.

These considerations are certainly thought-provoking.

I agree about the importance of the conscience, which you highlight.

I guess pragmatically some Christians would regard a Bible verse ref. in a tattoo (on a wrist, etc.) in a manner similar to Paul circumcising Timothy: the act in itself had no value, and should emphatically not be compelled except as it may arise as a personal, inner compulsion in love as a witness, which opens doors of testimony. In Timothy's case, he could truthfully tell Jews he was circumcised (not that he was under bondage to the law), but then point them to the Savior in the Scriptures. In the case of many Christian young men and women, the certainty of such a tattoo bringing about witness conversations about a tattooed Bible reference (as young people, moms and grandmas with the tattooed intials or names of their children and grandchildren, etc. are accustomed to comparing their tattoos among their peers) might motivate some of them to be willing to go under the needle.

(If some of this makes any sense?)

Blessings, and thanks again for all your thoughts.

 

[Sparkey]

Okay, now that I'm thinking about it, it's difficult for me to not explore further. The concepts that we are speaking about are an integral part of our witness and it was for reason that Paul addressed the issue of the "Law" and its various aspects so thoroughly in his expositions to Gentiles. He knew we'd need a solid foundation for our understanding. Crossing cultural "divides" includes incorporating other viewpoints by necessity. That's why he went to such great lengths to be clear on this and other subjects. Sadly, it's also true what Peter said about some of the more difficult things Paul has written. They are prone to twisting around by those who love to do such things. That aside, my thought goes to a place (there are so many of them) but a personal place for me that may help to shed light on the topic.

No, I'm not going to speak about "dancing" or "going to movies" or other things that have been discussed in the past, but I will touch on something that I enjoy. I own a motorcycle and it's springtime. My mind goes toward budgets to tune it up and get some new tires so that I might take advantage of the perfect weather that sometimes (too infrequently) happens in the Great Pacific Northwest. There is a "counter-culture" within riders and there are sub-sets to that culture too. Nobody today can think about motorcycles without at least a quick thought regarding gangs. I don't ride a Harley, but would love to, just can't afford it is all. Mine looks like a low rider though. Even for the well trained eye it is decidedly designed that way --to look like that popular choice because of increased sales.

So my ride looks like a Harley. Now, I don't wear a leather jacket but that would be my 2nd choice. I wear full gear and it's skid rated (so that it will last for "X" amount of seconds as it slides against pavement). My family have taken pictures and while on my bike and in my gear, "that guy" isn't someone that I'd want to meet in a dark alley. So, is it sin? I don't see why. When I was younger that may have been the case, but that wasn't the sin that really bothered me at all. It was drinking. It's been more than 20 years that I've been sober and I don't ride with any gang any longer. I still ride and am not sure but think that it would be seen as "okay" today only because there is no Scriptural mention of Babylonians on Bikes.

 

[farouk]

Yes, yes they do. I think every one of the hard rock bands I'm into, the members wear earrings, or ear stretchers, or have tattoos or something. ..I guess it's partly because of things like that that my opinions started changing gradually.

@questdriven : PS: to add here on the tattoo thread to what you were recently saying about tattoos on the thread about jewelry, etc:

Well, yes. For a hard rock musician a tattoo would simply be an enhancement which kind of comes naturally, I suppose. But especially in Christian hard rock, a faith related tattoo (such as Jen Ledger's from Skillet) would also have testimony potential.

It's good to be cautious about such developments, of course. It takes wisdom to know when to say no, when to wait, and when to go for it, I guess (if this makes sense?)

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Okay, now that I'm thinking about it, it's difficult for me to not explore further. The concepts that we are speaking about are an integral part of our witness and it was for reason that Paul addressed the issue of the "Law" and its various aspects so thoroughly in his expositions to Gentiles. He knew we'd need a solid foundation for our understanding. Crossing cultural "divides" includes incorporating other viewpoints by necessity. That's why he went to such great lengths to be clear on this and other subjects. Sadly, it's also true what Peter said about some of the more difficult things Paul has written. They are prone to twisting around by those who love to do such things. That aside, my thought goes to a place (there are so many of them) but a personal place for me that may help to shed light on the topic.

No, I'm not going to speak about "dancing" or "going to movies" or other things that have been discussed in the past, but I will touch on something that I enjoy. I own a motorcycle and it's springtime. My mind goes toward budgets to tune it up and get some new tires so that I might take advantage of the perfect weather that sometimes (too infrequently) happens in the Great Pacific Northwest. There is a "counter-culture" within riders and there are sub-sets to that culture too. Nobody today can think about motorcycles without at least a quick thought regarding gangs. I don't ride a Harley, but would love to, just can't afford it is all. Mine looks like a low rider though. Even for the well trained eye it is decidedly designed that way --to look like that popular choice because of increased sales.

So my ride looks like a Harley. Now, I don't wear a leather jacket but that would be my 2nd choice. I wear full gear and it's skid rated (so that it will last for "X" amount of seconds as it slides against pavement). My family have taken pictures and while on my bike and in my gear, "that guy" isn't someone that I'd want to meet in a dark alley. So, is it sin? I don't see why. When I was younger that may have been the case, but that wasn't the sin that really bothered me at all. It was drinking. It's been more than 20 years that I've been sober and I don't ride with any gang any longer. I still ride and am not sure but think that it would be seen as "okay" today only because there is no Scriptural mention of Babylonians on Bikes.

Sparrowhawke:

More interesting thoughts.

Were you particularly thinking about bikers with tattoos when you were referring, above, to riding Harleys?

(Or maybe your thoughts were more general?)

Blessings.

 

[Sparkey]

Actually no, I wasn't thinking about tats at all, I just like allegory and alliteration, "Babylonians on Bikes". Sometimes I crack me up. :rolling

Oh, I also wanted to take it to a personal level so that I could include expert witness (I'm part of that story and I'm one of the best experts on me there is).

 

[farouk]

Actually no, I wasn't thinking about tats at all, I just like allegory and alliteration, "Babylonians on Bikes". Sometimes I crack me up. :rolling

Sparrowhawke:

Oh okay.

Anyway, many bikers do have tattoos.

Actually, these days, though, if a group of people arrive in biker attire at a Cracker Barrel someplace, they are just as likely to be a group of pastors' and deacons' wives on a weekend outing, as they are Hell's Angels, etc. (Then again, it wouldn't be too unusual to find that some pastors' or deacons' wives have a bit of ink, too, such as kids' or grandkids' initials or b-days or else a Bible ref. etc.)

Blessings.

 

[Kaileymarie]

Farouk, what verse would you get tattooed on yourself?

Kaileymarie:

Thanks for the question. Whether it will actually happen is another aspect but in terms of verse ref. ideas: 'John 3.16' in nice, ornate lettering might be an idea. (Are you thinking of some possible options?) Also I mentioned John 14.27, above, and 1 Corinthians 15.55.

I think it's important for the person getting it, for the verse to be one that has definitely blessed him or her. (Are there any verses that stand out in your mind for you?)

Anyone else have ideas about a suitable verse ref.? (a simple ref. rather than the quote in full, maybe, or just a phrase?)

Blessings.

Lately I've been thinking of a small anchor on my wrist, as a reminder of the hope we have as an anchor for the soul. But I had this little list I was making when I came across a verse I would like to somehow incorporate into a tattoo..


John 16:33 "take heart"

John 16:22 "joy"

John 13:35 "if you love one another"

Colossians 4:4 "proclaim it clearly"

1 Cor 13:3 "but have not love"

2 Cor 5:4 "that mortality may be swallowed up by life."

 

[farouk]

Farouk, what verse would you get tattooed on yourself?

Kaileymarie:

Thanks for the question. Whether it will actually happen is another aspect but in terms of verse ref. ideas: 'John 3.16' in nice, ornate lettering might be an idea. (Are you thinking of some possible options?) Also I mentioned John 14.27, above, and 1 Corinthians 15.55.

I think it's important for the person getting it, for the verse to be one that has definitely blessed him or her. (Are there any verses that stand out in your mind for you?)

Anyone else have ideas about a suitable verse ref.? (a simple ref. rather than the quote in full, maybe, or just a phrase?)

Blessings.

Lately I've been thinking of a small anchor on my wrist, as a reminder of the hope we have as an anchor for the soul. But I had this little list I was making when I came across a verse I would like to somehow incorporate into a tattoo..


John 16:33 "take heart"

John 16:22 "joy"

John 13:35 "if you love one another"

Colossians 4:4 "proclaim it clearly"

1 Cor 13:3 "but have not love"

2 Cor 5:4 "that mortality may be swallowed up by life."

@Kaileymarie :

Interesting.

These are all great verses.

One idea I heard of was for an tribal type Celtic armband tattoo interlaced with Bible references. Sounded an interesting design, anyway, don't you think?

(And yes, a wrist is a popular placement, particularly if a full armband isn't opted for.)

Blessings.

 

[Kaileymarie]

Farouk, what verse would you get tattooed on yourself?

Kaileymarie:

Thanks for the question. Whether it will actually happen is another aspect but in terms of verse ref. ideas: 'John 3.16' in nice, ornate lettering might be an idea. (Are you thinking of some possible options?) Also I mentioned John 14.27, above, and 1 Corinthians 15.55.

I think it's important for the person getting it, for the verse to be one that has definitely blessed him or her. (Are there any verses that stand out in your mind for you?)

Anyone else have ideas about a suitable verse ref.? (a simple ref. rather than the quote in full, maybe, or just a phrase?)

Blessings.

Lately I've been thinking of a small anchor on my wrist, as a reminder of the hope we have as an anchor for the soul. But I had this little list I was making when I came across a verse I would like to somehow incorporate into a tattoo..


John 16:33 "take heart"

John 16:22 "joy"

John 13:35 "if you love one another"

Colossians 4:4 "proclaim it clearly"

1 Cor 13:3 "but have not love"

2 Cor 5:4 "that mortality may be swallowed up by life."

@Kaileymarie :

Interesting.

These are all great verses.

One idea I heard of was for an tribal type Celtic armband tattoo interlaced with Bible references. Sounded an interesting design, anyway, don't you think?

(And yes, a wrist is a popular placement, particularly if a full armband isn't opted for.)

Blessings.

How great it would be to fit all of those verses into one tattoo!! Now you've really got me thinking, Farouk.. I'm not a tribal fan but I've always wanted a tree! I'm sure my brother could draw something up for me.

Actually, since I was 16 I've wanted the stump at the end of the giving tree, offering a seat for the boy when he had nothing else to give. I just love it.

I like the wrist placement for my anchor tattoo because I will see it all the time! A constant reminder, which I need.

 

[farouk]

How great it would be to fit all of those verses into one tattoo!! Now you've really got me thinking, Farouk.. I'm not a tribal fan but I've always wanted a tree! I'm sure my brother could draw something up for me.

Actually, since I was 16 I've wanted the stump at the end of the giving tree, offering a seat for the boy when he had nothing else to give. I just love it.

I like the wrist placement for my anchor tattoo because I will see it all the time! A constant reminder, which I need.

Kaileymarie :

Definitely sounds like you're not done with the tattoo needle yet, anyway, right?

Would it be your first with a Scripture reference, though?

Blessings.

 

[Kaileymarie]

How great it would be to fit all of those verses into one tattoo!! Now you've really got me thinking, Farouk.. I'm not a tribal fan but I've always wanted a tree! I'm sure my brother could draw something up for me.

Actually, since I was 16 I've wanted the stump at the end of the giving tree, offering a seat for the boy when he had nothing else to give. I just love it.

I like the wrist placement for my anchor tattoo because I will see it all the time! A constant reminder, which I need.

Kaileymarie :

Definitely sounds like you're not done with the tattoo needle yet, anyway, right?

Would it be your first with a Scripture reference, though?

Blessings.

I don't think I am done, no. It's true they are addictive! Do you have any?

I have a heart with a peace sign cut out of it on my back, and I had a skull and crossbones on the back of my neck but had it covered with the most beautiful butterfly tattoo ever. He was an amazing artist and free handed the sketch and it was perfect. It even matches my personality, with bright colors and polka dots and stripes. Sounds kind of tacky now that i describe it but it's not! I get compliments on it all the time. I always said I would only let him tattoo me from then on but sadly he was killed by a drunk driver

The skull I got while in an abusive relationship, it matched his and his group of friends. Anyway, having that covered, once I finally stayed away, with a gorgeous bright butterfly just reminds me all the time that god took me when I was at my lowest, saved me from a bad situation, and has begun to transform me into the person I was meant to be in and for him.

 

[farouk]

I don't think I am done, no. It's true they are addictive! Do you have any?

I have a heart with a peace sign cut out of it on my back, and I had a skull and crossbones on the back of my neck but had it covered with the most beautiful butterfly tattoo ever. He was an amazing artist and free handed the sketch and it was perfect. It even matches my personality, with bright colors and polka dots and stripes. Sounds kind of tacky now that i describe it but it's not! I get compliments on it all the time. I always said I would only let him tattoo me from then on but sadly he was killed by a drunk driver

The skull I got while in an abusive relationship, it matched his and his group of friends. Anyway, having that covered, once I finally stayed away, with a gorgeous bright butterfly just reminds me all the time that god took me when I was at my lowest, saved me from a bad situation, and has begun to transform me into the person I was meant to be in and for him.

@Kaileymarie :

Sorry about those sad episodes that you mentioned.

Yes, I'm sure you do feel a nice experience every time you choose to go back for more of the tattoo needle - it's just classy, really, and for you I suppose as reminder of being a grown up making her own decisions, I guess: and I think if it's faith based it makes it really special.
(I wish that the soon faded Chinese character that I got had been faith based.)


Addictive: well, yes, maybe, but if so it's a really nice, benign sort of addiction, really, isn't it?

Have you got a good parlor now again since your other guy sadly passed away?

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

I've seen some really cool ones, especially ones that sometimes show up on my facebook feed. (Someone who's friends with me on there likes a page about tattoo designs and likes or shares some of the posts sometimes.)

Yeah.

@questdriven :

Would you yet describe yourself as a tattoo enthusiast? (especially given the faith design potentials)

Or maybe you're not there yet.

Blessings.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I've seen some really cool ones, especially ones that sometimes show up on my facebook feed. (Someone who's friends with me on there likes a page about tattoo designs and likes or shares some of the posts sometimes.)

Yeah.

@questdriven :

Would you yet describe yourself as a tattoo enthusiast? (especially given the faith design potentials)

Or maybe you're not there yet.

Blessings.

No, not really. I find them a bit more interesting now that I'm not totally against them, though.

 

[Kaileymarie]

I don't think I am done, no. It's true they are addictive! Do you have any?

I have a heart with a peace sign cut out of it on my back, and I had a skull and crossbones on the back of my neck but had it covered with the most beautiful butterfly tattoo ever. He was an amazing artist and free handed the sketch and it was perfect. It even matches my personality, with bright colors and polka dots and stripes. Sounds kind of tacky now that i describe it but it's not! I get compliments on it all the time. I always said I would only let him tattoo me from then on but sadly he was killed by a drunk driver

The skull I got while in an abusive relationship, it matched his and his group of friends. Anyway, having that covered, once I finally stayed away, with a gorgeous bright butterfly just reminds me all the time that god took me when I was at my lowest, saved me from a bad situation, and has begun to transform me into the person I was meant to be in and for him.

@Kaileymarie :

Sorry about those sad episodes that you mentioned.

Yes, I'm sure you do feel a nice experience every time you choose to go back for more of the tattoo needle - it's just classy, really, and for you I suppose as reminder of being a grown up making her own decisions, I guess: and I think if it's faith based it makes it really special.
(I wish that the soon faded Chinese character that I got had been faith based.)


Addictive: well, yes, maybe, but if so it's a really nice, benign sort of addiction, really, isn't it?

Have you got a good parlor now again since your other guy sadly passed away?

Blessings.

You're right, it's a sort of benign addiction. Not like drugs, where you need more NOW! I don't know anyone who has gotten a tattoo and not wanted more. Do you?

I have not gotten a tattoo since my butterfly, but I honestly think all of my friends have tattoos (never realized that!) so I'm sure I'll be able to find someone good. I found a picture of my butterfly (it's reeeeally hard to take a good picture of the back of your own neck!). This wasnt long after I got it so it's a little red.

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