Pre-Millennialism?

[F345T]

I will trust in His Word

Me too.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2 Peter 3:10-11

5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
Nahum 1:5

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2 Thess. 1:7-9

4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Malachi 4:1

14 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the Lord's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the Lord, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
Zephaniah 1:14-15, 18; 3:8

 

[F345T]

Carry_Your_Name

Since you have a strong opinion about the physical, would you please throw your 2 cents into this thread?

Spiritual Israel?
https://christianforums.net/threads/spiritual-israel.102513/#post-1840430

I'd appreciate it and nobody else seems to have the courage to speak their opinion on it like you do yet.

God bless.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Me too.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

If there is nothing else before the end what is all this meet & greet stuff Jesus talks about ?
Was he just kidding us?

Jhn 21:22
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Zec 13:6
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

 

[F345T]

If there is nothing else before the end what is all this meet & greet stuff Jesus talks about ?
Was he just kidding us?

Jhn 21:22
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Zec 13:6
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

The Bible doesn't support any case for a Millennium time period upon the physical earth after Christ's return outside of Rev. 20. The Pre-Mil doctrine is a misinterpretation of that chapter as there is no support for it anywhere else in the Bible. That is what is referred to as an unsound doctrine.

When Jesus returns, that is it.

Finito.

The end is much nearer than you realize.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The Bible doesn't support any case for a Millennium time period upon the physical earth after Christ's return outside of Rev. 20. The Pre-Mil doctrine is a misinterpretation of that chapter as there is no support for it anywhere else in the Bible. That is what is referred to as an unsound doctrine.

When Jesus returns, that is it.

Finito.

The end is much nearer than you realize.

Black ink on white paper .
You have yet to address them ?

Jhn 21:22
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Zec 13:6
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Wow, you're way off, my friend. Jesus is not Spirit? He was of flesh and blood?

Who was His physical human earthly father that contributed to His conception?

Jesus is BOTH spirit and flesh, as it is written:

... His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. (Rom. 1:3-4)

However, the bible emphesizes on flesh, in fact, acknowledgement of Jesus in the flesh is the line in the sand that sets the Holy Spirit apart from evil spirits:

By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1 Jn. 4:2-3)

Please note that it doesn't say every spirit that denies Jesus's deity, Jesus's virgin birth, Jesus's resurrection, Jesus being the only way - or Jesus is born of the holy spirit - is the spirit of the Antichrist. It targets and only targets at the heresy of docetism, that Christ is a spirit, not a real person of flesh and blood, that's what you're saying.

What is Docetism? | GotQuestions.org

What is Docetism? Why did the early church so strongly condemn Docetism as a heresy? What did the Docetists believe?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[F345T]

Black ink on white paper .
You have yet to address them ?

Jhn 21:22
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Zec 13:6
And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.

How would you like me to address them? They don't have anything to do with Pre-Mil doctrine. Explain how they relate to this topic and I guess I'll address your interpretation of them.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Satan never stole God's Kingdom. Can you provide a verse to explain why you would think that? This world is not God's Kingdom. Again, Jesus declared that His Kingdom is not of this (fallen/satanic) world.

Jesus defeated Satan at the Cross. Simple as that. Then Jesus' Spirit began entering into His Faithful ones all over the world - just as I said. Jesus is King right now, ruling in and through all of His Faithful ones all over the world. The devil will have his short time to test and cause havoc until Jesus returns, but he is already defeated.

"It is finished."

The end.

You're contradicting what the bible teaches. The devil is more aggressive than ever, the wicked never rests, and yet you pretend it doesn't exist. You're advocating an attitude of complacency.

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience. (Eph. 2:1-2)
You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. (1 Jn. 4:4)
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. (1 Pt. 5:8)

 

[F345T]

Jesus is BOTH spirit and flesh, as it is written:

... His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. (Rom. 1:3-4)

However, the bible emphesizes on flesh, in fact, acknowledgement of Jesus in the flesh is the line in the sand that sets the Holy Spirit apart from evil spirits:

By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. (1 Jn. 4:2-3)

Please note that it doesn't say every spirit that denies Jesus's deity, Jesus's virgin birth, Jesus's resurrection, Jesus being the only way - or Jesus is born of the holy spirit - is the spirit of the Antichrist. It targets and only targets at the heresy of docetism, that Christ is a spirit, not a real person of flesh and blood, that's what you're saying.

What is Docetism? | GotQuestions.org

What is Docetism? Why did the early church so strongly condemn Docetism as a heresy? What did the Docetists believe?

www.gotquestions.org

Yes, God came in the flesh. Jesus was God in a flesh body. God is a spirit.

Where did I say what you're now claiming, that Jesus is/was not a real person of flesh and blood?

I can tell you He does not have any blood in Him because His wounds are still visible and touchable. Blood carries the life, the spirit. But Jesus IS spirit. His very words are spirit. (Jn. 6:63,68) He has some form of body, but it's not flesh and blood as we know it. It is some ascended form that can walk through walls. (Jn. 20:19)

He's far more spirit than physical and your initial claim was that He was physical only. Anyway, I think I've made my point.

God bless.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Carry_Your_Name

Since you have a strong opinion about the physical, would you please throw your 2 cents into this thread?

Spiritual Israel?
https://christianforums.net/threads/spiritual-israel.102513/#post-1840430

I'd appreciate it and nobody else seems to have the courage to speak their opinion on it like you do yet.

God bless.

Thanks for the invite, which I politely decline. I'm not interested at another aimless fight against antisemetism and replacement theology.

 

[F345T]

You're contradicting what the bible teaches. The devil is more aggressive than ever, the wicked never rests, and yet you pretend it doesn't exist. You're advocating an attitude of complacency.

No, I'm not advocating anything. I'm just saying there will be no Millennium upon this physical earth after Christ comes and destroys the earth entirely on the same day He arrives. Just like the Bible says.

That's all.

 

[F345T]

Thanks for the invite, which I politely decline. I'm not interested at another aimless fight against antisemetism and replacement theology.

Boy, that was a stretch. Who said anything about any of that?

If the Israel of the Bible is Spiritual, that means Black Hebrew Israelites and White Christian Identity are stirring up a race war for nothing.

Who said anything about Antisemitism?

How bout Anti-Christian-ism?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes, God came in the flesh. Jesus was God in a flesh body. God is a spirit.

Where did I say what you're now claiming, that Jesus is/was not a real person of flesh and blood?

I can tell you He does not have any blood in Him because His wounds are still visible and touchable. Blood carries the life, the spirit. But Jesus IS spirit. His very words are spirit. (Jn. 6:63,68) He has some form of body, but it's not flesh and blood as we know it. It is some ascended form that can walk through walls. (Jn. 20:19)

He's far more spirit than physical and your initial claim was that He was physical only. Anyway, I think I've made my point.

God bless.

Then you're denying his humanity. A spirit can't be crucified, buried and resurrected, a real body can. Haven't you realized how ridiculous you sound as you keep contradicting not just the bible but also yourself? If His wounds are still visible and touchable, then how is he a spirit? If fact, doubting Thomas thought he was hallucinating, he thought he was seeing a spirit, Jesus put his hands on his wounds to make sure that he was a real person - of flesh and blood!

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No, I'm not advocating anything. I'm just saying there will be no Millennium upon this physical earth after Christ comes and destroys the earth entirely on the same day He arrives. Just like the Bible says.

That's all.

No, the bible says the saints are resurrected and they reign with Christ for a thousand years. (Rev. 20:4) If you insist that this is not a physical kingdom, then you're in denial.

Boy, that was a stretch. Who said anything about any of that?

If the Israel of the Bible is Spiritual, that means Black Hebrew Israelites and White Christian Identity are stirring up a race war for nothing.

Who said anything about Antisemitism?

How bout Anti-Christian-ism?

I have no idea what you're talking about, man. I'm not here to discuss politics.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again F345T,

Actually Jesus tells us that Revelation is a book of signs and symbols and John repeats over and over that he is 'in the spirit' when he sees each vision. That means that all the other end times passages are the detailed explanations. Revelation is a whimsical, prophetic, symbolic, spiritual view of the events not even necessarily in a specific order just as we see John mentioning more than once seeing New Jerusalem coming down from the sky.

I contribute to the Pre-Millennial view and also that the Seals, Trumpets and Vials are to be understood according to the Continuous Historic view, and as such each period from AD 96 the First Seal to the return of Christ in the present period, the Sixth Vial is consecutive. I claim that the faithful have more or less understood each of these prophecies in their respective time.
Revelation 1:1–3 (KJV): 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Daniel 12:9–10 (KJV): 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

I endorse again my view presented in Post #25. I find your view based upon earth burning quotations is in contradiction to the times of refreshing and times of restoration of Acts 3:19-21. I understand the concept of burning is figurative language to represent judgement on some, but not utter destruction of everyone and of destruction of the actual earth. I still hold onto the 1000 year view based upon Revelation 20 and 1 Corinthians 15. Jesus is returning to bless, and to rule, not destroy.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[F345T]

Then you're denying his humanity. A spirit can't be crucified, buried and resurrected, a real body can. Haven't you realized how ridiculous you sound as you keep contradicting not just the bible but also yourself? If His wounds are still visible and touchable, then how is he a spirit? If fact, doubting Thomas thought he was hallucinating, he thought he was seeing a spirit, Jesus put his hands on his wounds to make sure that he was a real person - of flesh and blood!

You're just being silly now. Stubbornly insisting on continuing to argue when your arguments have been demolished.

Jesus is King now. What is He King of if He has now current Kingdom?

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Hebrews 1:8

God bless.

 

[F345T]

No, the bible says the saints are resurrected and they reign with Christ for a thousand years.

Resurrected spiritually and reigning with Christ now. All happens before Christ's return.

(Rev. 20:4) If you insist that this is not a physical kingdom, then you're in denial.

You don't know your Bible, but that can be fixed.

Study up.

I have no idea what you're talking about, man. I'm not here to discuss politics.

You're here to discuss anything that deflects from your arguments being repeatedly proven unbiblical.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Consecrated Life said:
Black ink on white paper .
You have yet to address them ?

How would you like me to address them? They don't have anything to do with Pre-Mil doctrine. Explain how they relate to this topic and I guess I'll address your interpretation of them.

Zec 14:9
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Zec 14:10
All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

Zec 14:11
And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

 

[F345T]

Greetings again F345T,

I contribute to the Pre-Millennial view and also that the Seals, Trumpets and Vials are to be understood according to the Continuous Historic view, and as such each period from AD 96 the First Seal to the return of Christ in the present period, the Sixth Vial is consecutive. I claim that the faithful have more or less understood each of these prophecies in their respective time.
Revelation 1:1–3 (KJV): 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Daniel 12:9–10 (KJV): 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

I endorse again my view presented in Post #25. I find your view based upon earth burning quotations is in contradiction to the times of refreshing and times of restoration of Acts 3:19-21. I understand the concept of burning is figurative language to represent judgement on some, but not utter destruction of everyone and of destruction of the actual earth. I still hold onto the 1000 year view based upon Revelation 20 and 1 Corinthians 15. Jesus is returning to bless, and to rule, not destroy.

Kind regards
Trevor

That's fine.

You're completely ignoring the fact that the Bible leaves no room for debate when it says the the earth will be "melted down to its very elements."

Some people have a personal need to believe things that are not Biblical.

God bless.

 

[F345T]

Consecrated Life said:
Black ink on white paper .
You have yet to address them ?

Zec 14:9
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Zec 14:10
All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

Zec 14:11
And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

I've already addressed all of that with Scripture that contradicts your interpretation of it.

Black letters on white computer screens showed you clearly that the Bible states that the earth will be destroyed which means that your interpretation of those verses must be incorrect.

Jesus returns, then comes the end. (1 Cor. 15:23-24) The Last Day is spoken of many times throughout the Bible, Jesus Himself speaks of it 5 times in the book of John and it is mentioned a 6th time in that book. There can only be ONE Last Day. Jesus arrives on that Last Day and resurrects, judges and destroys the earth. It's God's book and God's story.

Take it up with Him.