pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

[farouk]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

'Caught up' (1 Thess 4) means that the Lord Himself immediately takes His pilgrim people to the meeting in the air; never mind about fultile attempts meanwhile to cooperate with devious polticians in supposedly trying to implement a reign of righteousness.

Blessings.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

well you didn't read the words of Jesus Christ HE says HIS return and our gathering is AFTER the tribulation not before, so why don't you post the verse that gives you the right to claim Jesus Christ comes pre trib even though HE says post trib? love to see that magic invisible verse.....waiting

 

[jasoncran]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

@Watchmen for Christ , what is the purpose of the millennial reign of Christ. I am not saying that land isn't promised to the Hebrew just that the Hebrews will NOT be doing the torah as under moses.

the Millennial reign is a time of teaching the hard way for those who didn't make it in the first resurrection's grace. satan is bound 1000yrs so truth can not be confused till satan is released for his last and final call to eternal death rev 20.

we who refuse to worship satan will reign with Christ Jesus, see eze 37 to the end of the book for there's more written about the millennium here than anyother book in the bible. ;)

no, you are wrong. the levites whom is their inheritance? oh its GOD, they had land only to live on and not to grace. all food for them was in tithes. the temple of isreal and torah cant be. there is no grace if isreal Is to be in this manner.

see the chapters on Ezekiel 40-48.

that and paul would disagree who reigns with Christ.

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

oh you forgot this. its ole zeke too.

40:39

And in the porch of the gate were two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering.

that is for what? that means the mosaic covenant is full effect. the CROSS could NOT save all men

42:13

13 Then said he unto me, The north chambers and the south chambers, which are before the separate place, they be holy chambers, where the priests that approach unto the Lord shall eat the most holy things: there shall they lay the most holy things, and the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering; for the place is holy.
14 When the priests enter therein, then shall they not go out of the holy place into the utter court, but there they shall lay their garments wherein they minister; for they are holy; and shall put on other garments, and shall approach to those things which are for the people.

only the sons of aaron could do this, do you know any sons of aaron today?

43 Afterward he brought me to the gate, even the gate that looketh toward the east:
2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
3 And it was according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, even according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions were like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face.
4 And the glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house.
6 And I heard him speaking unto me out of the house; and the man stood by me.
7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
8 In their setting of their threshold by my thresholds, and their post by my posts, and the wall between me and them, they have even defiled my holy name by their abominations that they have committed: wherefore I have consumed them in mine anger.
9 Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.
12 This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.
13 And these are the measures of the altar after the cubits: The cubit is a cubit and an hand breadth; even the bottom shall be a cubit, and the breadth a cubit, and the border thereof by the edge thereof round about shall be a span: and this shall be the higher place of the altar.
14 And from the bottom upon the ground even to the lower settle shall be two cubits, and the breadth one cubit; and from the lesser settle even to the greater settle shall be four cubits, and the breadth one cubit.
15 So the altar shall be four cubits; and from the altar and upward shall be four horns.
16 And the altar shall be twelve cubits long, twelve broad, square in the four squares thereof.
17 And the settle shall be fourteen cubits long and fourteen broad in the four squares thereof; and the border about it shall be half a cubit; and the bottom thereof shall be a cubit about; and his stairs shall look toward the east.
18 And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord God; These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon.
19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.
22 And on the second day thou shalt offer a kid of the goats without blemish for a sin offering; and they shall cleanse the altar, as they did cleanse it with the bullock.
23 When thou hast made an end of cleansing it, thou shalt offer a young bullock without blemish, and a ram out of the flock without blemish.
24 And thou shalt offer them before the Lord, and the priests shall cast salt upon them, and they shall offer them up for a burnt offering unto the Lord.
25 Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat for a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish.
26 Seven days shall they purge the altar and purify it; and they shall consecrate themselves.
27 And when these days are expired, it shall be, that upon the eighth day, and so forward, the priests shall make your burnt offerings upon the altar, and your peace offerings; and I will accept you, saith the Lord God.

ezek 43 above and 44 next

44 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
2 Then said the Lord unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the Lord, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
3 It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the Lord; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.
4 Then brought he me the way of the north gate before the house: and I looked, and, behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord: and I fell upon my face.
5 And the Lord said unto me, Son of man, mark well, and behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears all that I say unto thee concerning all the ordinances of the house of the Lord, and all the laws thereof; and mark well the entering in of the house, with every going forth of the sanctuary.
6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,
7 In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.
8 And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves.
9 Thus saith the Lord God; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.
12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord God, and they shall bear their iniquity.
13 And they shall not come near unto me, to do the office of a priest unto me, nor to come near to any of my holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.
14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord God:
16 They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.
17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.
18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.
19 And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.
20 Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads.
21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.
22 Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.
23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.
25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.
26 And after he is cleansed, they shall reckon unto him seven days.
27 And in the day that he goeth into the sanctuary, unto the inner court, to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his sin offering, saith the Lord God.
28 And it shall be unto them for an inheritance: I am their inheritance: and ye shall give them no possession in Israel: I am their possession.
29 They shall eat the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering: and every dedicated thing in Israel shall be theirs.
30 And the first of all the firstfruits of all things, and every oblation of all, of every sort of your oblations, shall be the priest's: ye shall also give unto the priest the first of your dough, that he may cause the blessing to rest in thine house.
31 The priests shall not eat of any thing that is dead of itself, or torn, whether it be fowl or beast.

ok so when after the cross were they are any levites who did the above and any state of isreal do this?

I can show you more and this should be enough.

 

[gr8grace]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

well you didn't read the words of Jesus Christ HE says HIS return and our gathering is AFTER the tribulation not before, so why don't you post the verse that gives you the right to claim Jesus Christ comes pre trib even though HE says post trib? love to see that magic invisible verse.....waiting

No, you have seen em all, just as I have. You just see them differently.

Logic of my interpretation still stands. A pre trib believer will not fall for false Christs that have dialog with us. We have no time for dialog with a false Christ that comes before the rapture. The rapture is IMMEDIATE and Has no time for explanations or deception.

Before the rapture happens however, Believers that have fallen for mid trib or post trib are open to someone who looks like light and says they are light.

 

[gr8grace]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

Here is a great old post, Originally Posted by thisnumbersdisconnected
And again, in the context of the rest of the Bible it can be shown that He absolutely was not talking about the last day of history, but of the church age.

I'm sure you know the answer to that question but, 1 Coritnhians 15:50-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2 Thessalonians 2:2-10, among others. Those are the main verses. There is support throughout Scripture.

Further,It amazes me that some folks continue to deny the event, questioning the validity of the rapture, simply because the word "rapture" doesn't appear in the Bible

With 1 Thes 4:16-18 giving us such a clear description of the rapture, you would have to conclude that some people are just playing games with the Word of God. I could change the name of my site to "Catching Up Ready" to satisfy these folks, but I hardly think that would improve things

Their logic fails because there are a huge number of words that don't appear in the Bible, including the word "Bible." Because God's Word was originally written in Hebrew and Greek, one could truthfully say that no English words are in the Bible

Pre-trib opponents should have thought this one through because any pre-tribulationist has the same right to say, "Nowhere in the Bible does it directly say the Church will go through the tribulation." Jesus did say ...
Matthew 24 NASB

44 "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
The only time frame I can think of when we believers would not be expecting Jesus to return would have to be before the tribulation.

One of the most widely circulated attacks against the pre-trib rapture is the notion that a girl named Margaret MacDonald started this theological view back in 1830. The claim is typically made that MacDonald received a demonic vision, passed it on to John Darby, who in turn popularized it. Disproving this assertion proves rather easy. Pre-trib scholars have discovered a host of rapture writings that predate Margaret MacDonald.

Epharaem the Syrian said, in 373 AD, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

One post-trib author offered a reward to anyone who could find a quote that predated MacDonald. He had to quickly cough up the money when someone identified a scholar who wrote about the pre-trib rapture several years before MacDonald. As of late, dozens of examples have been found, and the literary surface has hardly been scratched. With the revealing of all these pre-MacDonald writings, you would think that this argument has been debunked. Unfortunately, this is not the case. We seem to be involved in a tug-of-war with the truth. Apparently, due to their lack of research, pre-trib opponents continue to pump out publications that cite MacDonald as the originator of the pre-trib rapture.

A number people have attempted to refute the pre-trib rapture by trying to associate the "Day of the Lord" with a catching-up of believers at the end of the tribulation. They base their rapture views solely on the idea that the "Day of the Lord" and the rapture are either synonymous or somehow linked together. The Achilles heel of their argument has to be the notion that the "Day of the Lord" and various other "days" of an end-time context refers to a 24 hour period that occurs at or near the end of the tribulation. Probably the most commonly cited verse is 1 Thessalonians 5:2 where Paul tells us the "Day of the Lord" will come "as a thief in the night.

I've read countless articles that describe the "Day of the Lord" as Christ's advent at Armageddon. These articles go on to say that, because Paul also tells us the Lord will come "as a thief," we have a direct link to the same description that is applied to noted rapture verses. It's rather obvious that those trying to rely on the "Day of the Lord" never bothered to validate the meaning of this particular day. I've checked a number of commentaries on the "Day of the Lord" and many of them define this as being an all-encompassing period that begins with the Great Tribulation. Let's examine some verses that clearly indicate that the term "day" is used to represent a broader time period.

In 2 Peter 3:10-13, the "Day of the Lord" spoken of cannot be a one day event because it mentions the destruction of the earth by fire and its renovation. Rev 21:11 tells us the earth will not be renewed until after Christ's 1000 year reign.

In Joel 2:11-20, the "Day of the Lord" includes the defeat of the northern army. Ezkiel 38 and 39 are more detailed parallels of the Joel passage. Most scholars would time the destruction of the Gog army as occurring before in the first half of the tribulation.

In John 12:48, Jesus uses the term "last day" to indicate when the lost would be judged. Rev 20 makes it clear that the unsaved will not be judged until after the millennium -- yet another 1000 year gap.

One of the best indications that most of the various "day" references are citing a general time period can be found here:
Hebrews 10NASB
25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
There are myriad arguments against misunderstanding and denial of the prophesied Rapture, too numerous to go into detail here. But if one wants to understand how the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation, it is not hard to locate information on it. Rather than stamping feet and saying "It can't be," perhaps some should investigate beyond what their church is teaching them.

 

[Brother Mike]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

No, you have seen em all, just as I have. You just see them differently.

Logic of my interpretation still stands. A pre trib believer will not fall for false Christs that have dialog with us. We have no time for dialog with a false Christ that comes before the rapture. The rapture is IMMEDIATE and Has no time for explanations or deception.

Before the rapture happens however, Believers that have fallen for mid trib or post trib are open to someone who looks like light and says they are light.

Dragging all my Post Trib Brethren up to Jesus is going to be work, but someone has to do it.

False Christ................ yea... sure... got it.............. amazing.

Mike.

 

[Deborah13]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

Before the rapture happens however, Believers that have fallen for mid trib or post trib are open to someone who looks like light and says they are light.

Why?

 

[gr8grace]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

Before the rapture happens however, Believers that have fallen for mid trib or post trib are open to someone who looks like light and says they are light.

Why?

because that believer believes that He will be put to the test and Has to discern between truth and lie. Pre trib believers KNOW that it is all a lie, and we are just GONE.

 

[reba]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

ANEN opps you snuck in gr8 that amen was to kiwi

 

[gr8grace]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

ANEN opps you snuck in gr8 that amen was to kiwi

Yeah Kiwi has it right. Plus I don't get many Amens around Here!

 

[gr8grace]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

Jesus Christ warns in matt 24 mark 13 & luke 21 of false Christs coming claiming to be Him prior to the 2nd advent rapture


paul never says Jesus Christ parousia is prior to the tribulation, men claim paul does,
paul teaches the same post trib parousia as Jesus Christ in II thess 2 and warns believers to let no man deceive us for the Lord's Day (matt 24:29-31) is not "at hand" and shall not come except a falling away first and satan is revealed to be worshiped.
I see adding "pre trib" to pauls words leading many astray


Matthew 24:21-31

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.




29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.




2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

King James Version (KJV)

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.




1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

King James Version (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


the saved dead rise as He rose, no need for a Christian to remain in the graves when the First resurrection started in matt 27 when Jesus gave up the ghost and rose again, the graves opened and the saints walked into the streets proving HE has defeated death. Christians continue to partake in the first resurrection till Jesus returns with them jude 1:14-15,rev 19



15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


prevent=precede them, we can't precede them because they are already there, the Lord says in matt 24:29-31 His parousia is after the tribulation not before the tribulation. paul quotes matt 24:30-31:



16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


AER=breath g109 =spiritual bodies g4151 , paul never said the rapture is pre trib

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

when Jesus Christ returns after the tribulation the heavens and earth will be on fire and the elements melt II pet 3 so of course we ALL change in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump.

In Matt 13:30 Jesus tells believers the tares are gathered first. when satan and his false Christs come they will be gathering tares , because of a teaching that Jesus parousia is before HE said it will be.

I would still like to Know what the Danger is for believers that believe in the Pre trib. We wont fall for a false Christ that actually talks to us, he doesn't have time to convince us.

 

[Deborah13]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

Further,It amazes me that some folks continue to deny the event, questioning the validity of the rapture, simply because the word "rapture" doesn't appear in the Bible

It's not because the word "rapture" does not appear in the Bible. It's because the scripture as we see it, doesn't support a separate event.

1Thess. 4, does not read like some quiet mysterious event to me. It will be loud and all shall see. Where does it say, that this event will be like a secret?

The only time frame I can think of when we believers would not be expecting Jesus to return would have to be before the tribulation.

Why?

Epharaem the Syrian said, in 373 AD, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

What is the difference between the saints and the Elect of God? What was all of his belief? Sounds to me that he just thought the Lord was coming before the WORLD was in turmoil. And I'm not totally against that view. I believe we will not be here when the Lord destroys the wicked.
Do you have a link for his writings? Thanks

These articles go on to say that, because Paul also tells us the Lord will come "as a thief,"

I don't read it that way, that the Lord is going to come sneaking in. It will seem to those who are not ready for Him to come, that it was like when you are not ready for a thief. Jesus, said that if one knew when the thief was coming they would be ready, waiting, watching. So because we don't know when He is coming we need to be ready, waiting, and watching.

I don't agree with your post, but it was well written and I could at least follow what you were saying.
Blessings, Deb

 

[Deborah13]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

because that believer believes that He will be put to the test and Has to discern between truth and lie. Pre trib believers KNOW that it is all a lie, and we are just GONE.

No, I'm not going be saying "will the real Jesus please stand up". I'm not going to be expecting Him to touch down on this earth. Unless I missed a scripture somewhere?

 

[Deborah13]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

[MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION] , is there a scripture that says Jesus will actually be physically on this earth again? I can't find one. Help please.

 

[farouk]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]: The location is 'in the clouds...in the air' (1 Thess. 4), rather different from a tribulation-linked event on earth, it would seem.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

[MENTION=47381]reba[/MENTION] , is there a scripture that says Jesus will actually be physically on this earth again? I can't find one. Help please.

[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

(May I assist?)

Job 19.25

Blessings.

 

[reba]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

ANEN opps you snuck in gr8 that amen was to kiwi

Yeah Kiwi has it right. Plus I don't get many Amens around Here!

AMEN?

 

[reba]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

That is a dispy size stretch farouk !

 

[Deborah13]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

@reba , is there a scripture that says Jesus will actually be physically on this earth again? I can't find one. Help please.

@Deborah13 :

(May I assist?)

Job 19.25

Blessings.

Thank you, farouk. I believe He will return in the flesh and stand on an earth. I just can't get a clear picture that it is this earth, as we know it.
I think that when He comes for His Church we will be caught up, resurrected, I just don't have to same timing that you do or the same people that you do.

 

[Watchmen for Christ]

Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy of satan to deceive

=jasoncran;833454]

no, you are wrong. the levites whom is their inheritance? oh its GOD, they had land only to live on and not to grace. all food for them was in tithes. the temple of isreal and torah cant be. there is no grace if isreal Is to be in this manner.


*Now we know the Levites inheritance in with the LORD and there will be no temple there for HE will be our temple . lets focus on Jesus Christ , and the post trib rapture as your going of topic. the 12000 from each tribe along with the great multitude of gentiles also make it out of the tribulation, each has their place according to God's will.

what are you talking about there will be no grace if the Levites inheritance is with the LORD? we believers are the temple of HIS body now both Jew & Gentile, the Holy Spirit dwells within us and if one allows satan into the temple to defile it as if he's God (worshiping satan) they are defiling the temple and God destroys them (physically cut down) rev 19-20

*where does paul disagree with who reigns with Christ? rev 7 says 12,000 from each tribe and a great multitude of all nations tongues and kindred make it out of tribulation washing our garments in Jesus Christ not defiling them with satan worship. rev 20 we reign with Christ 1000yrs.

oh you forgot this. its ole zeke too.

40:39

And in the porch of the gate were two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering.

that is for what? that means the mosaic covenant is full effect. the CROSS could NOT save all men


:biglol
Jeremiah 3:7-15

King James Version (KJV)

7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
10 And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the Lord.
11 And the Lord said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever.
13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord.
14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

*matt 24:29-31,zech 14,rev 14,I thess 4:13-14,I cor 15, mark 13,luke 21,rev 19

15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

*rev 20 makes us priests and kings during the millennium, a time of learning truth while satan is bound then loosened to test on and last final time by drawing all he can to him and eternal death/blotting out from God

Jesus Christ the BRANCH came and HE died in the flesh for my sins and the sins of the world for whosoever will believe ON Him, Jew or Gentile:
Matt 27
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.


only the sons of aaron could do this, do you know any sons of aaron today?


*Christians have a High Priest, because we have Jesus Christ the Lord He is our high priest:
Hebrews 3:1-3
3 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.


Hebrews 4:13-15
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Hebrews 5:4-6
4And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 6:19-20
19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


Hebrews 9:11
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;




17 And the settle shall be fourteen cubits long and fourteen broad in the four squares thereof; and the border about it shall be half a cubit; and the bottom thereof shall be a cubit about; and his stairs shall look toward the east.
18 And he said unto me, Son of man, thus saith the Lord God; These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon.
19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.


Melchisedec, king of the zadok, righteous
G3198
Μελχισεδέκ
Melchisedek
mel-khis-ed-ek'
Of Hebrew origin [H4442]; Melchisedek (that is, Malkitsedek), a patriarch: - Melchisedec.

H4442
מלכּי־צדק
malkı̂y-tsedeq
mal-kee-tseh'-dek
From H4428 and H6664; king of right; Malki-Tsedek, an early king in Palestine: - Melchizedek.

H4428
מלך
melek
meh'-lek
From H4427; a king: - king, royal.

H6664
צדק
tsedeq
tseh'-dek
From H6663; the right (natural, moral or legal); also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness).


Jesus Christ king of the righteous: Melchisedec


I can show you more and this should be enough.[/QUOTE]


Sure it's plenty and I can rejoice as a believer in and ON Jesus Christ the Lord that His death in the flesh on the cross burial and resurrection fulfilled all the ordinances and blood sacrifices so we partake in His death burial and resurrection to eternal life both Jews and Gentiles as we see in rev 7 many believers make it out of the great tribulation of false Christs (called the "pre trib" rapture) by refusing to defile our wedding garments for Jesus Christ.we'd rather refuse the false Christs early harvest of tares matt 24:4-5,21-28,luke 21:8, etc and wait for Jesus Christ's post trib harvest/gathering/rapture of matt 24:29-31 as HE tells us to!

good talking to you