Bible Study Predestination and Election in the Bible

[Nathan]

John 13:37-50
37 Though he had done so many signs before them, they still did not believe in him,
38 so that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: "Lord, who has believed what he heard from us, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"
39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,
40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them."
41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.
42 Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue;
43 for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.
44 And Jesus cried out and said, "Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.
45 And whoever sees me sees him who sent me.
46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness.
47 If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
49 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment-what to say and what to speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me."

 

[Nathan]

Yes he is, but if I say that in response to Nathan's question, I will get an argument on a theology bunny trail. Nathan needs to figure it out for himself and I need to stop trying to explain it. Nathan is accusing the wrong 'god' of the crime.

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I'm not accusing God of doing such things. It seemed that Calvinist say He does so I am searching for clarification. You did help me to see that Calvinists don't believe God keeps them from believing though. That makes a lot more sense and does line up Biblicaly.

So now I would like to know if Calvinist believe it's impossible for some to come to faith? If God does not keep them from it, then there seems to be nothing but themselves(because of their choice to stay in darkness) keeping them from receiving Gods grace.

 

[Nathan]

I'm on my phone so I'm limited on the ability to post things in the way I normally do.

But I did look deeper into that passage in 2 Corinthians 4. If you back up to chapter 3 it sheds light on the subject also.

If you look at the word used for "cannot" you see that it means "they(unbelievers) keep themselves from". Satan blinds them by constantly drawing them away from they light. And because they choose to stay in darkness they keep themselves from coming to the light.

So there is a choice being made by them, not for them.

 

[atpollard]

You don't see that this is from two different points of view?
One is from Christ seeing the ones who will listen and Paul telling the hearers that God wants them to turn.

You asked for thoughts. I had only a tiny quibble worth making ... MEN 'hope' for something, GOD does not 'hope' (that whole omni- thing).

 

[th1b.taylor]

It is my belief that when a person receives salvation they are a saint not a sinner. There is no scripture that states that a believer is still a sinner, but we do find that they once(past tense) were a sinner but they are now saints by the grace of God.

But be careful with that! We are His saints that still fall into sin meaning we are both but we have learned to repent and strive not to do it any more. Paul warns us when He admitted that he thought to do good but instead found himself doing that which he did not find seemly. (Rom 7:29)

 

[Nathan]

You asked for thoughts. I had only a tiny quibble worth making ... MEN 'hope' for something, GOD does not 'hope' (that whole omni- thing).

I agree. That's why I say it's Paul speaking to men in ways men(who were in darkness) could see Gods desire for them to come into the light - without telling them that He forces mankind to do so. Otherwise they might think "if He is really God, then it doesn't matter what I believe because He will make me believe".

I don't think it's strange Paul uses the words he does.

 

[Nathan]

But be careful with that! We are His saints that still fall into sin meaning we are both but we have learned to repent and strive not to do it any more. Paul warns us when He admitted that he thought to do good but instead found himself doing that which he did not find seemly. (Rom 7:29)

It's true we should all take head and not believe we can fall. Pride does go before a fall.

I think it would help you to see what dirtfarmer and the others are saying by understanding a sinner is a person who is a slave of sin. A saint is a person who has been set free from the slavery of sin. Both people are capable of sin, but only one does not submit to the power of it.

 

[atpollard]

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I'm not accusing God of doing such things.

See, If I attempt to SAY anything, I am invited into a debate on what I did or didn't mean. I really need to stick to answering questions with scripture and just not follow down the resulting rabbit holes. I'll keep reading your questions and answer if I can, but you will need to figure most of it out for yourself. The general style of argument here drives me crazy.

I wanted to load up a LCMS and OPC possie and do a drive by on a Methodist Church ... "I got yer free will right here!" ... "and the Judas you rode in on." [but I'm feeling much better, now.]

 

[th1b.taylor]

It's true we should all take head and not believe we can fall. Pride does go before a fall.

I think it would help you to see what dirtfarmer and the others are saying by understanding a sinner is a person who is a slave of sin. A saint is a person who has been set free from the slavery of sin. Both people are capable of sin, but only one does not submit to the power of it.

I'm sorry but the Church is filled with forgiven sinners. (Rom 3:18 & 23)

 

[Nathan]

See, If I attempt to SAY anything, I am invited into a debate on what I did or didn't mean. I really need to stick to answering questions with scripture and just not follow down the resulting rabbit holes. I'll keep reading your questions and answer if I can, but you will need to figure most of it out for yourself. The general style of argument here drives me crazy.

I wanted to load up a LCMS and OPC possie and do a drive by on a Methodist Church ... "I got yer free will right here!" ... "and the Judas you rode in on." [but I'm feeling much better, now.]

All cool heads here.

I just didn't want others to think I was making accusations. And I was trying to look at your statement in a positive light.

If it's possible, could you send me a link(even if it's in a PM) to the best description of the Reformed Theology? I did try to look, but there are a lot of different theologies that fall under the Reformed heading.

One question I am still at a loss for is if the theology insists unbelievers have no choice? *to receive the Gospel that is.

So far I am getting the feeling that it's more along the lines that they just never will choose Christ because they are so opposed to Him and want to follow their own desires because satans power is so strong in making them believe a lie.

I have to say, I've come along way from the beginning where I thought Calvin taught God chooses some to never believe.

 

[Nathan]

I'm sorry but the Church is filled with forgiven sinners. (Rom 3:18 & 23)

Right.

I think it's all a matter of viewing it from different angles. I ran into that when I first understood.

It honestly makes no difference except being able to understand some of the things written in the letters to the church. If the distinction isn't made its possible to think the writers are talking about one, or the other, or both.

It also is very comforting to know in Gods eyes we are no longer seen as 'sinners' but as righteous - because He views us through His Son.

 

[atpollard]

So now I would like to know if Calvinist believe it's impossible for some to come to faith?

Q. What does God’s law require of us?
A. Christ teaches us this in summary in Matthew 22:37-40:
“‘You shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart,
and with all your soul,
and with all your mind.’1
This is the greatest and first commandment.
“And a second is like it:
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’2
“On these two commandments hang
all the law and the prophets.”
1 Deut. 6:5
2 Lev. 19:18


Q. Can you live up to all this perfectly?
A. No.1
I have a natural tendency
to hate God and my neighbor.2
1 Rom. 3:9-20, 23; 1 John 1:8, 10
2 Gen. 6:5; Jer. 17:9; Rom. 7:23-24; 8:7; Eph. 2:1-3; Titus 3:3


Q. Did God create people so wicked and perverse?
A. No.
God created them good1 and in his own image,2
that is, in true righteousness and holiness,3
so that they might
truly know God their creator,4
love him with all their heart,
and live with God in eternal happiness,
to praise and glorify him.5
1 Gen. 1:31
2 Gen. 1:26-27
3 Eph. 4:24
4 Col. 3:10
5 Ps. 8


Q. Then where does this corrupt human nature come from?
A. The fall and disobedience of our first parents,
Adam and Eve, in Paradise.1
This fall has so poisoned our nature2
that we are all conceived and born
in a sinful condition.3
1 Gen. 3
2 Rom. 5:12, 18-19
3 Ps. 51:5


Q. But are we so corrupt that we are totally unable to do any good and inclined toward all evil?
A. Yes,1 unless we are born again
by the Spirit of God.2
1 Gen. 6:5; 8:21; Job 14:4; Isa. 53:6
2 John 3:3-5


Q. But doesn’t God do us an injustice by requiring in his law what we are unable to do?
A. No, God created human beings with the ability to keep the law.1
They, however, provoked by the devil,2
in willful disobedience,3
robbed themselves and all their descendants of these gifts.4
1 Gen. 1:31; Eph. 4:24
2 Gen. 3:13; John 8:44
3 Gen. 3:6
4 Rom. 5:12, 18, 19

Q. Does God permit such disobedience and rebellion to go unpunished?
A. Certainly not.
God is terribly angry
with the sin we are born with
as well as the sins we personally commit.
As a just judge,
God will punish them both now and in eternity,1
having declared:
“Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey
all the things written in the book of the law.”2
1 Ex. 34:7; Ps. 5:4-6; Nah. 1:2; Rom. 1:18; Eph. 5:6; Heb. 9:27
2 Gal. 3:10; Deut. 27:26


Q. But isn’t God also merciful?
A. God is certainly merciful,1
but also just.2
God’s justice demands
that sin, committed against his supreme majesty,
be punished with the supreme penalty—
eternal punishment of body and soul.3
1 Ex. 34:6-7; Ps. 103:8-9
2 Ex. 34:7; Deut. 7:9-11; Ps. 5:4-6; Heb. 10:30-31
3 Matt. 25:35-46

This is what Calvinists have believed for over 450 years and still believe and teach today. This is Reformed Theology. Most of your questions were answered in 1563. Let's start with this (Heidelberg Catechism of 1563, Q&A 3-11).

Do YOU have any Questions on these Answers before we move from Misery to Deliverance?

 

[Nathan]

Q. What does God’s law require of us?
A. Christ teaches us this in summary in Matthew 22:37-40:
“‘You shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart,
and with all your soul,
and with all your mind.’1
This is the greatest and first commandment.
“And a second is like it:
‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’2
“On these two commandments hang
all the law and the prophets.”
1 Deut. 6:5
2 Lev. 19:18


Q. Can you live up to all this perfectly?
A. No.1
I have a natural tendency
to hate God and my neighbor.2
1 Rom. 3:9-20, 23; 1 John 1:8, 10
2 Gen. 6:5; Jer. 17:9; Rom. 7:23-24; 8:7; Eph. 2:1-3; Titus 3:3


Q. Did God create people so wicked and perverse?
A. No.
God created them good1 and in his own image,2
that is, in true righteousness and holiness,3
so that they might
truly know God their creator,4
love him with all their heart,
and live with God in eternal happiness,
to praise and glorify him.5
1 Gen. 1:31
2 Gen. 1:26-27
3 Eph. 4:24
4 Col. 3:10
5 Ps. 8


Q. Then where does this corrupt human nature come from?
A. The fall and disobedience of our first parents,
Adam and Eve, in Paradise.1
This fall has so poisoned our nature2
that we are all conceived and born
in a sinful condition.3
1 Gen. 3
2 Rom. 5:12, 18-19
3 Ps. 51:5


Q. But are we so corrupt that we are totally unable to do any good and inclined toward all evil?
A. Yes,1 unless we are born again
by the Spirit of God.2
1 Gen. 6:5; 8:21; Job 14:4; Isa. 53:6
2 John 3:3-5


Q. But doesn’t God do us an injustice by requiring in his law what we are unable to do?
A. No, God created human beings with the ability to keep the law.1
They, however, provoked by the devil,2
in willful disobedience,3
robbed themselves and all their descendants of these gifts.4
1 Gen. 1:31; Eph. 4:24
2 Gen. 3:13; John 8:44
3 Gen. 3:6
4 Rom. 5:12, 18, 19

Q. Does God permit such disobedience and rebellion to go unpunished?
A. Certainly not.
God is terribly angry
with the sin we are born with
as well as the sins we personally commit.
As a just judge,
God will punish them both now and in eternity,1
having declared:
“Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey
all the things written in the book of the law.”2
1 Ex. 34:7; Ps. 5:4-6; Nah. 1:2; Rom. 1:18; Eph. 5:6; Heb. 9:27
2 Gal. 3:10; Deut. 27:26


Q. But isn’t God also merciful?
A. God is certainly merciful,1
but also just.2
God’s justice demands
that sin, committed against his supreme majesty,
be punished with the supreme penalty—
eternal punishment of body and soul.3
1 Ex. 34:6-7; Ps. 103:8-9
2 Ex. 34:7; Deut. 7:9-11; Ps. 5:4-6; Heb. 10:30-31
3 Matt. 25:35-46

This is what Calvinists have believed for over 450 years and still believe and teach today. This is Reformed Theology. Most of your questions were answered in 1563. Let's start with this (Heidelberg Catechism of 1563, Q&A 3-11).

Do YOU have any Questions on these Answers?

See, these would be the same beliefs I have. I didn't go through the passages you listed, but I agree with the Q&A.

Here I thought all along Calvinists believed certain men were locked away from ever receiving the Gospel.

I suppose it's like any other belief, there are ones that use the same name but don't hold to the same beliefs.

Thank You.

 

[atpollard]

The next part is on Deliverance and here is where your personal beliefs may differ from Orthodox Reformed Theology.
Heidelberg Catechism (1563) Q & A 12-25

Q. According to God’s righteous judgment we deserve punishment both now and in eternity:
how then can we escape this punishment and return to God’s favor?
A. God requires that his justice be satisfied.1
Therefore the claims of this justice
must be paid in full,
either by ourselves or by another.2
1 Ex. 23:7; Rom. 2:1-11
2 Isa. 53:11; Rom. 8:3-4


Q. Can we make this payment ourselves?
A. Certainly not.
Actually, we increase our debt every day.1
1 Matt. 6:12; Rom. 2:4-5


Q. Can another creature—any at all—pay this debt for us?
A. No.
To begin with,
God will not punish any other creature
for what a human is guilty of.1
Furthermore,
no mere creature can bear the weight
of God’s eternal wrath against sin
and deliver others from it.2
1 Ezek. 18:4, 20; Heb. 2:14-18
2 Ps. 49:7-9; 130:3


Q. What kind of mediator and deliverer should we look for then?
A. One who is a true1 and righteous2 human,
yet more powerful than all creatures,
that is, one who is also true God.3
1 Rom. 1:3; 1 Cor. 15:21; Heb. 2:17
2 Isa. 53:9; 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 7:26
3 Isa. 7:14; 9:6; Jer. 23:6; John 1:1


Q. Why must the mediator be a true and righteous human?
A. God’s justice demands
that human nature, which has sinned,
must pay for sin;1
but a sinful human could never pay for others.2
1 Rom. 5:12, 15; 1 Cor. 15:21; Heb. 2:14-16
2 Heb. 7:26-27; 1 Pet. 3:18


Q. Why must the mediator also be true God?
A. So that the mediator,
by the power of his divinity,
might bear the weight of God’s wrath in his humanity
and earn for us
and restore to us
righteousness and life.1
1 Isa. 53; John 3:16; 2 Cor. 5:21


Q. Then who is this mediator—true God and at the same time a true and righteous human?
A. Our Lord Jesus Christ,1
who was given to us
to completely deliver us
and make us right with God.2
1 Matt. 1:21-23; Luke 2:11; 1 Tim. 2:5
2 1 Cor. 1:30


Q. How do you come to know this?
A. The holy gospel tells me.
God began to reveal the gospel already in Paradise;1
later God proclaimed it
by the holy patriarchs2 and prophets3
and foreshadowed it
by the sacrifices and other ceremonies of the law;4
and finally God fulfilled it
through his own beloved Son.5
1 Gen. 3:15
2 Gen. 22:18; 49:10
3 Isa. 53; Jer. 23:5-6; Mic. 7:18-20; Acts 10:43; Heb. 1:1-2
4 Lev. 1-7; John 5:46; Heb. 10:1-10
5 Rom. 10:4; Gal. 4:4-5; Col. 2:17


Q. Are all people then saved through Christ just as they were lost through Adam?
A. No.
Only those are saved
who through true faith
are grafted into Christ
and accept all his benefits.1
1 Matt. 7:14; John 3:16, 18, 36; Rom. 11:16-21


Q. What is true faith?
A. True faith is
not only a sure knowledge by which I hold as true
all that God has revealed to us in Scripture;1
it is also a wholehearted trust,2
which the Holy Spirit creates in me3 by the gospel,4
that God has freely granted,
not only to others but to me also,5
forgiveness of sins,
eternal righteousness,
and salvation.6
These are gifts of sheer grace,
granted solely by Christ’s merit.7
1 John 17:3, 17; Heb. 11:1-3; James 2:19
2 Rom. 4:18-21; 5:1; 10:10; Heb. 4:14-16
3 Matt. 16:15-17; John 3:5; Acts 16:14
4 Rom. 1:16; 10:17; 1 Cor. 1:21
5 Gal. 2:20
6 Rom. 1:17; Heb. 10:10
7 Rom. 3:21-26; Gal. 2:16; Eph. 2:8-10


Q. What then must a Christian believe?
A. All that is promised us in the gospel,1
a summary of which is taught us
in the articles of our universal
and undisputed Christian faith.
1 Matt. 28:18-20; John 20:30-31


Q. What are these articles?
A. I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.


Q. How are these articles divided?
A. Into three parts:
God the Father and our creation;
God the Son and our deliverance;
and God the Holy Spirit and our sanctification.


Q. Since there is only one divine being,1
why do you speak of three: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
A. Because that is how
God has revealed himself in his Word:2
these three distinct persons
are one, true, eternal God.
1 Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:4, 6
2Matt. 3:16-17; 28:18-19; Luke 4:18 (Isa. 61:1); John 14:26; 15:26; 2 Cor. 13:14; Gal. 4:6; Tit. 3:5-6

Do YOU have any Questions on these Answers?

EDIT: A link to the Heidelberg Catchesism

 

[GodsGrace]

Is the Adamic curse unjust? Is it right that all men die for the sin of Adam? Did we choose to be born mortal? (I speak now of physical death).
You say "God cannot rightly judge someone who has no choice", yet we are born condemned to die.

(You keep wanting to sprint ahead. I am not 'ignoring' all of your posts, I simply have no choice but to pick and choose points from your walls of text because I have neither the time nor inclination to address a dozen questions at once. The questions I choose to respond to are intended to point you towards the heart of your misunderstanding of Reformed Theology. You will have to find it on your own.)

Atpollard,
This thread just opened to this post of yours and it made me think of something.

On another thread we're discussing baptism of children.
You said above:
You say "God cannot rightly judge someone who has no choice", yet we are born condemned to die.

Yes. We are all born with the sin nature and are condemned to die because of the effects of Adam's sin.

Let me ask you this:
If a one year old baby dies, can he go to hell because he is judged as others?
We do speak of an age of accountability.
Why do we speak of this if anyway God is going to pick whom He will?
So the baby has no choice and if God did not choose him, he's going to hell?

I understand your point about how we're all born lost and God is good to save some of us.
That does not seem like a good God to me. I believe He wishes to save everyone that wants to be saved.

The following is from a Calvinish site, posted below:

What does it all mean?

So what do we make of this difficult issue that God can desire one thing and yet arrange circumstances, influence hearts, and govern people to the contrary? I believe it is because there is something greater than God's desire that all should be saved; namely that God's divine plan and will be carried out for His glory and the salvation of the elect.

Love and kindness are not the only aspects of God's glorious being. He is also holy and righteous and has brought history through its course in order to reflect His great wisdom and justice as well as His love and mercy. Though God hates sin, He permits it for the greater glory of Himself and His plan. In this, He desires all to be saved, but has not ordained that it be so because, according to the Law, He must punish sinners.

The Law is a reflection of God's character. Jesus said that out of the heart, the mouth speaks (Matt. 12:34). God spoke and the Law came forth. It is pure and perfect because it reflects God's character. God has said that the soul that sins will die (Ezekiel 18:4), that sin causes a separation between God and man (Isaiah 59:2), that He must punish the sinner (Exodus 32:34; Hosea 9:9), and that His eyes are too pure to look upon evil (Hab. 1:13). If someone sins, they must be punished because it is in accordance with God's Law. That is why God can desire all to be saved, yet not ordain that all be saved because His Law cannot be broken. What He is doing is remaining true to His character in both His justice and grace. He is true to His justice because He rightfully judges people according to His Law. He is true to His grace because He gives people the salvation they do not deserve. In both, He is being consistent with His own character.

http://calvinistcorner.com/god-desires-all-saved.htm


The above says that God is Love and Kindness, He is Glorious, Holy and Righteous.

I fail to understand how God could have these attributes if He decides who will go to hell and who will not.
I don't expect a reply from you - just making a statement.

 

[Nathan]

The next part is on Deliverance and here is where your personal beliefs may differ from Orthodox Reformed Theology.
Heidelberg Catechism (1563) Q & A 12-25

Q. According to God’s righteous judgment we deserve punishment both now and in eternity:
how then can we escape this punishment and return to God’s favor?
A. God requires that his justice be satisfied.1
Therefore the claims of this justice
must be paid in full,
either by ourselves or by another.2
1 Ex. 23:7; Rom. 2:1-11
2 Isa. 53:11; Rom. 8:3-4


Q. Can we make this payment ourselves?
A. Certainly not.
Actually, we increase our debt every day.1
1 Matt. 6:12; Rom. 2:4-5


Q. Can another creature—any at all—pay this debt for us?
A. No.
To begin with,
God will not punish any other creature
for what a human is guilty of.1
Furthermore,
no mere creature can bear the weight
of God’s eternal wrath against sin
and deliver others from it.2
1 Ezek. 18:4, 20; Heb. 2:14-18
2 Ps. 49:7-9; 130:3


Q. What kind of mediator and deliverer should we look for then?
A. One who is a true1 and righteous2 human,
yet more powerful than all creatures,
that is, one who is also true God.3
1 Rom. 1:3; 1 Cor. 15:21; Heb. 2:17
2 Isa. 53:9; 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 7:26
3 Isa. 7:14; 9:6; Jer. 23:6; John 1:1


Q. Why must the mediator be a true and righteous human?
A. God’s justice demands
that human nature, which has sinned,
must pay for sin;1
but a sinful human could never pay for others.2
1 Rom. 5:12, 15; 1 Cor. 15:21; Heb. 2:14-16
2 Heb. 7:26-27; 1 Pet. 3:18


Q. Why must the mediator also be true God?
A. So that the mediator,
by the power of his divinity,
might bear the weight of God’s wrath in his humanity
and earn for us
and restore to us
righteousness and life.1
1 Isa. 53; John 3:16; 2 Cor. 5:21


Q. Then who is this mediator—true God and at the same time a true and righteous human?
A. Our Lord Jesus Christ,1
who was given to us
to completely deliver us
and make us right with God.2
1 Matt. 1:21-23; Luke 2:11; 1 Tim. 2:5
2 1 Cor. 1:30


Q. How do you come to know this?
A. The holy gospel tells me.
God began to reveal the gospel already in Paradise;1
later God proclaimed it
by the holy patriarchs2 and prophets3
and foreshadowed it
by the sacrifices and other ceremonies of the law;4
and finally God fulfilled it
through his own beloved Son.5
1 Gen. 3:15
2 Gen. 22:18; 49:10
3 Isa. 53; Jer. 23:5-6; Mic. 7:18-20; Acts 10:43; Heb. 1:1-2
4 Lev. 1-7; John 5:46; Heb. 10:1-10
5 Rom. 10:4; Gal. 4:4-5; Col. 2:17


Q. Are all people then saved through Christ just as they were lost through Adam?
A. No.
Only those are saved
who through true faith
are grafted into Christ
and accept all his benefits.1
1 Matt. 7:14; John 3:16, 18, 36; Rom. 11:16-21


Q. What is true faith?
A. True faith is
not only a sure knowledge by which I hold as true
all that God has revealed to us in Scripture;1
it is also a wholehearted trust,2
which the Holy Spirit creates in me3 by the gospel,4
that God has freely granted,
not only to others but to me also,5
forgiveness of sins,
eternal righteousness,
and salvation.6
These are gifts of sheer grace,
granted solely by Christ’s merit.7
1 John 17:3, 17; Heb. 11:1-3; James 2:19
2 Rom. 4:18-21; 5:1; 10:10; Heb. 4:14-16
3 Matt. 16:15-17; John 3:5; Acts 16:14
4 Rom. 1:16; 10:17; 1 Cor. 1:21
5 Gal. 2:20
6 Rom. 1:17; Heb. 10:10
7 Rom. 3:21-26; Gal. 2:16; Eph. 2:8-10


Q. What then must a Christian believe?
A. All that is promised us in the gospel,1
a summary of which is taught us
in the articles of our universal
and undisputed Christian faith.
1 Matt. 28:18-20; John 20:30-31


Q. What are these articles?
A. I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.


Q. How are these articles divided?
A. Into three parts:
God the Father and our creation;
God the Son and our deliverance;
and God the Holy Spirit and our sanctification.


Q. Since there is only one divine being,1
why do you speak of three: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
A. Because that is how
God has revealed himself in his Word:2
these three distinct persons
are one, true, eternal God.
1 Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:4, 6
2Matt. 3:16-17; 28:18-19; Luke 4:18 (Isa. 61:1); John 14:26; 15:26; 2 Cor. 13:14; Gal. 4:6; Tit. 3:5-6

Do YOU have any Questions on these Answers?

Nope. *no questions here.

If I was going to nit pick I'd say that God does actually 'punish'(in a way) the creation because of Adams disobedience. But that is just a semantics word game and something I feel matters here. I'm pretty sure I understand what the Q&A are indicating.

 

[reba]

The pharisee thought himself not a sinner

 

[atpollard]

I fail to understand how God could have these attributes if He decides who will go to hell and who will not.
I don't expect a reply from you - just making a statement.

Greetings wondering,
I haven't given up talking, just trying to explain.
Fortunately, you can browse the Heidelberg Catechism and read what Reformed Theology literally TEACHES (453+ years now and still in use) and see if it teaches what you have been told 'Calvinism' teaches.

As for me, I gave given up 'defending' Reformed Theology and God's Sovereignty for Lent.

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings wondering,
I haven't given up talking, just trying to explain.
Fortunately, you can browse the Heidelberg Catechism and read what Reformed Theology literally TEACHES (453+ years now and still in use) and see if it teaches what you have been told 'Calvinism' teaches.

As for me, I gave given up 'defending' Reformed Theology and God's Sovereignty for Lent.

I'm upset that you gave up. I like talking to you.

Pretty funny! You gave it up for Lent.
Browse the Heidelberg Catechism? How many catechisms do you want I should know??
I know the Catholic one and I'm not even catholic anymore.

Yeah. STOP trying to explain something you don't agree with. Sometimes someone will post something incorrect about Catholicism and I correct it and then I get bombarded with questions. Not here anymore because everyone knows me by now- but at the beginning it happened.

But you said you're a 5 point Calvinist, or do I not remember?
Don't the five points say that God will save whom He will save?


Just answer that.


Then I'll leave you alone and love you in the Lord.
Unless I change my mind. (girls can do that you know)

 

[atpollard]

Nope. *no questions here.

Moving along then ...
Heidelberg Catechism (1563) Q & A 26-28
God the Father:

Q. What do you believe when you say, “I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth”?
A. That the eternal Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
who out of nothing created heaven and earth
and everything in them,1
who still upholds and rules them
by his eternal counsel and providence,2
is my God and Father
because of Christ the Son.3
I trust God so much that I do not doubt
he will provide
whatever I need
for body and soul,4
and will turn to my good
whatever adversity he sends upon me
in this sad world.5
God is able to do this because he is almighty God6
and desires to do this because he is a faithful Father.7
1 Gen. 1-2; Ex. 20:11; Ps. 33:6; Isa. 44:24; Acts 4:24; 14:15
2 Ps. 104; Matt. 6:30; 10:29; Eph. 1:11
3 John 1:12-13; Rom. 8:15-16; Gal. 4:4-7; Eph. 1:5
4 Ps. 55:22; Matt. 6:25-26; Luke 12:22-31
5 Rom. 8:28
6 Gen. 18:14; Rom. 8:31-39
7 Matt. 7:9-11


Q. What do you understand by the providence of God?
A. The almighty and ever present power of God1
by which God upholds, as with his hand,
heaven
and earth
and all creatures,2
and so rules them that
leaf and blade,
rain and drought,
fruitful and lean years,
food and drink,
health and sickness,
prosperity and poverty—3
all things, in fact,
come to us
not by chance4
but by his fatherly hand.5
1 Jer. 23:23-24; Acts 17:24-28
2 Heb. 1:3
3 Jer. 5:24; Acts 14:15-17/a>; John 9:3; Prov. 22:2
4 Prov. 16:33
5 Matt. 10:29


Q. How does the knowledge of God’s creation and providence help us?
A. We can be patient when things go against us,1
thankful when things go well,2
and for the future we can have
good confidence in our faithful God and Father
that nothing in creation will separate us from his love.3
For all creatures are so completely in God’s hand
that without his will
they can neither move nor be moved.4
1 Job 1:21-22; James 1:3
2 Deut. 8:10; 1 Thess. 5:18
3 Ps. 55:22; Rom. 5:3-5; 8:38-39
4 Job 1:12; 2:6; Prov. 21:1; Acts 17:24-28



I added an underline just to make sure the point was not missed.
It is a position that others appear to disagree with.

Do YOU have any Questions on these Answers?