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Bible Study Predestination and Election in the Bible

Jesus' righteousness is imputed on us. Period. There is no works of man that will ever be coupled together with God's that will "produce" righteousness. God alone is righteous - therefore there can be no righteousness outside of Him. He cannot "give away" His righteousness. He is Holy(set apart).

The faith we receive produces fruit, that fruit is what God see's in us - and imputes the righteousness of Christ on us.

We are "made" righteous before God's eyes, but we are not "made" righteous in the way that God is righteous. It has to be imputed onto us, given to us, there is nothing we can do to earn it or keep it - it is constantly poured out in us by the Holy Spirit, through faith.
Oh my.
Did I say we are righteous as God is?
No!
Only God is just and righteous.
We are righteous in the sense that we are "made right with God".
We are reconciled to Him.
We are IMPUTED His righteousness, as you state.

We cannot earn it. It's like salvation.
But there IS something we can do to keep it... stay saved!
 
Wouldn't Ephesians 1:12 be very important to this conversation?
verse 12: "to the end that we who were THE FIRST to hope in Christ should be to the praise of His glory".
NASB

verse 13: "in Him, you ALSO, after listening to the message of truth..."
NASB

It seems to me that Paul is speaking about two groups but both are In Christ and are the faithful.
Group 1: Those who believed FIRST, the Apostles - and Paul - that brought the gospel and were chosen by God to do this.

Group 2: Everyone else that believes in Jesus for salvation.

verse 15: "...and your love for all the saints".
NASB
Perhaps Paul means the deliverers of the gospel by "the saints" ?

I don't quite understand why this is so important???
Well, its important if you want to view predestination in a certain way. :)

Think of it this way. In those days people wrote letters just like they were speaking to them*(the readers)- not at them. Catch that?

It would be like this; Wondering, God has blessed us beyond all measure. He is so good to us by the works He show us every day. Praise Him for the love he showed us when He sent us His Son, so that when we believed on Him, He gave us the Spirit. In which we do live and who guides us in all truth. You also, Wondering, God has given very special talents to. So that you can use them for His good pleasure.

Now, did you get the idea that I was talking about myself and someone else? Or did you understand that I was talking about you and me(and whoever else is a believer)?

When I switched over to "you also", I was simply being direct and 'emphatic' about making you understand that you have very special talents.
 
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Yes, His Life joined to us when we repent, is our righteousness.

At that moment we have been washed and cleansed of our sins, and translated into the kingdom of God, in which the kingdom of God is within us.

Now comes the process of transformation... the process of becoming.

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

We are to walk according to righteous life within us, and not the sin that dwells in our flesh.

The righteousness according to faith, means we walk in obedience to God: to the Spirit within.

That's why it's called the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


Your Question: Does Jesus make us righteous Or are we righteous of our own efforts?

Our own effort - No

By our obedience coupled with His grace - Yes.

Nobody can honestly say that if we live in [have a lifestyle: practice] disobedience to God, that we are somehow "right" with Him: righteous.

If we stumble, we get back up, repent and keep walking out this life of faith: the righteousness according to faith.

For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again,
But the wicked shall fall by calamity. Proverbs 24:16


I hope we can discuss the different aspects of righteousness and come to a like minded conclusion.

JLB
I believe we agree.
Could you clarify this. You said:

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21

Do we not receive this righteousness upon expressing our faith in God (to Him) and upon acceptance of His sacrifice for our salvation?

It doesn't seem to me that we BECOME righteous, we are right with God upon accepting Jesus as our Savior.
Romans 5:17
 
Oh my.
Did I say we are righteous as God is?
No!
Only God is just and righteous.
We are righteous in the sense that we are "made right with God".
We are reconciled to Him.
We are IMPUTED His righteousness, as you state.

We cannot earn it. It's like salvation.
But there IS something we can do to keep it... stay saved!

No, you didn't :) I was just trying to put my thoughts out there and tagged you as the quote. lol You were talking about it, so I just added my thoughts to it.

Think of it this way, which is easy because its used in the Bible, we are 'branches' and Christ is the tree. Christ's righteousness flows through us, producing fruit. The 'branch' is simply a medium by which righteousness flows through it.
 
No, you didn't :) I was just trying to put my thoughts out there and tagged you as the quote. lol You were talking about it, so I just added my thoughts to it.

Think of it this way, which is easy because its used in the Bible, we are 'branches' and Christ is the tree. Christ's righteousness flows through us, producing fruit. The 'branch' is simply a medium by which righteousness flows through it.
Nice visual image.
Do you teach?
 
Well, its important if you want to view predestination in a certain way. :)

Think of it this way. In those days people wrote letters just like they were speaking to them*(the readers)- not at them. Catch that?

It would be like this; Wondering, God has blessed us beyond all measure. He is so good to us by the works He show us every day. Praise Him for the love he showed us when He sent us His Son, so that when we believed on Him, He gave us the Spirit. In which we do live and who guides us in all truth. You also, Wondering, God has given very special talents to. So that you can use them for His good pleasure.

Now, did you get the idea that I was talking about myself and someone else? Or did you understand that I was talking about you and me(and whoever else is a believer)?

When I switched over to "you also", I was simply being direct and 'emphatic' about making you understand that you have very special talents.

I should add, verse 13 is simply Paul being very sincere and emphatic about the Ephesians understanding they have the Holy Spirit. Its a huge part of being a believer(not that other things are not), but Paul wanted to 'perk' their ears.

If you notice he reverts back and forth with the use of "us" and "you" throughout the letter. The first 12 verses were simply him sharing from the heart about the common faith, and then getting their attention starting in verse 13.
 
Nice visual image.
Do you teach?

That's a good question. Professionally no.(my wife does though).

Biblically, no. If someone learns from me I am happy. I would just say I like to 'share'. :)

I am a very visual person. So when I am thinking of something it helps to visualize it.

What is funny is that sometimes it is an 'issue'. lol I have toned it down over the years. My kids used to get frustrated with me when I was trying to teach them something and would use 'several' visual images. It would drive them nuts. My wife said I was limited to 2 per lesson. :)
 
Well, its important if you want to view predestination in a certain way. :)

Think of it this way. In those days people wrote letters just like they were speaking to them*(the readers)- not at them. Catch that?

It would be like this; Wondering, God has blessed us beyond all measure. He is so good to us by the works He show us every day. Praise Him for the love he showed us when He sent us His Son, so that when we believed on Him, He gave us the Spirit. In which we do live and who guides us in all truth. You also, Wondering, God has given very special talents to. So that you can use them for His good pleasure.

Now, did you get the idea that I was talking about myself and someone else? Or did you understand that I was talking about you and me(and whoever else is a believer)?

When I switched over to "you also", I was simply being direct and 'emphatic' about making you understand that you have very special talents.
I understand this. But I never noticed Ephesians 1:1 before. This is why I find it important to be on this forum.

I looked at about 15 bibles, two of them in Italian. There were so many different versions of Eph 1:1 that I just gave up. It's going to require a little study and maybe a talk with someone I know. I don't mean that Paul is referring to Jews in verse 12. I believe he is referring to the Apostles. I'm not sure anymore.

This is YLT: (the person I know speaks Koine Greek, BTW and uses a Greek bible)

Ephesians 1:1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
YLT


Perhaps the saints are the ones preaching the gospel? I'm not considering the change from US to YOU.
In verses 2-12
Paul is speaking about the mysteries being made known to US,
Every spiritual blessing has been given to US (has every spiritual blessing been given to all believers?)

Some of the gifts seem to be general and not necessarily for Apostles.

But then in verse 13, when he switches to YOU, Paul says ...
"In Him, YOU ALSO (also means a second thing), after listening to the message of truth (the mesage the Apostles brought), the gospel of your salvation - having also believed YOU were sealed in Him with the Holy Promise..."

So the Apostles were first so that they could bring the message.
YOU ALSO, doesn't ALSO mean a second thing??
(bring the book and also bring a pen)

Not sure, still going through it.
How could you be so sure?
 
That's a good question. Professionally no.(my wife does though).

Biblically, no. If someone learns from me I am happy. I would just say I like to 'share'. :)

I am a very visual person. So when I am thinking of something it helps to visualize it.

What is funny is that sometimes it is an 'issue'. lol I have toned it down over the years. My kids used to get frustrated with me when I was trying to teach them something and would use 'several' visual images. It would drive them nuts. My wife said I was limited to 2 per lesson. :)
You should have been a teacher.
I taught kids religion till about two years ago. Aged 6 to 13 (not all in one class!)
Kids could learn different ways and all should be incorporated, if possible. One of the ways is visual. You would have been good at it.
 
I understand this. But I never noticed Ephesians 1:1 before. This is why I find it important to be on this forum.

I looked at about 15 bibles, two of them in Italian. There were so many different versions of Eph 1:1 that I just gave up. It's going to require a little study and maybe a talk with someone I know. I don't mean that Paul is referring to Jews in verse 12. I believe he is referring to the Apostles. I'm not sure anymore.

This is YLT: (the person I know speaks Koine Greek, BTW and uses a Greek bible)

Ephesians 1:1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
YLT


Perhaps the saints are the ones preaching the gospel? I'm not considering the change from US to YOU.
In verses 2-12
Paul is speaking about the mysteries being made known to US,
Every spiritual blessing has been given to US (has every spiritual blessing been given to all believers?)

Some of the gifts seem to be general and not necessarily for Apostles.

But then in verse 13, when he switches to YOU, Paul says ...
"In Him, YOU ALSO (also means a second thing), after listening to the message of truth (the mesage the Apostles brought), the gospel of your salvation - having also believed YOU were sealed in Him with the Holy Promise..."

So the Apostles were first so that they could bring the message.
YOU ALSO, doesn't ALSO mean a second thing??
(bring the book and also bring a pen)

Not sure, still going through it.
How could you be so sure?

The "you also" was as if he was there(remember the way in which they wrote letters back then), and as if he reached across the table - poked them in the chest - and told them they truly do have the Spirit inside them.

They had a style of writing back then that is different than today - for the most part. The "you also" was an emphatic statement, not a secondary inclusion.

As far as verse 3, you would find in the original language the "and" left out. "The faithful" refers back to the previous statement "saints at Ephesus".

Again, like me saying;

Dear Wondering who is reading this on CF.net, and who is beloved in God.

I am stating who you are and what you are. I'm not talking about two seperate people. :)
 
God alone is righteous - therefore there can be no righteousness outside of Him.
Exo 23:8
“And you shall take no bribe, for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts the words of the righteous.
Deu 16:19
“You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.
Deu 25:1
“If there is a dispute between men, and they come to court, that the judges may judge them, and they justify the righteous and condemn the wicked,
1Ki 8:32
“then hear in heaven, and act, and judge Your servants, condemning the wicked, bringing his way on his head, and justifying the righteous by giving him according to his righteousness.
Job 17:9
Yet the righteous will hold to his way,
Job 22:19
The righteous see it and are glad,
Job 36:7
He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous
Psa 1:5
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6
For the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
Psa 5:12
For You, O LORD, will bless the righteous; With favor You will surround him as with a shield.
Psa 11:3
If the foundations are destroyed, What can the righteous do?
Psa 11:5
The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.

There are many, many more....
 
The "you also" was as if he was there(remember the way in which they wrote letters back then), and as if he reached across the table - poked them in the chest - and told them they truly do have the Spirit inside them.

They had a style of writing back then that is different than today - for the most part. The "you also" was an emphatic statement, not a secondary inclusion.

As far as verse 3, you would find in the original language the "and" left out. "The faithful" refers back to the previous statement "saints at Ephesus".

Again, like me saying;

Dear Wondering who is reading this on CF.net, and who is beloved in God.

I am stating who you are and what you are. I'm not talking about two seperate people. :)
Will consider this. I noticed what you said in verse 3 and also 1:1 changes in different versions.
Not at computer...Tomorrow.
 
Exo 23:8
“And you shall take no bribe, for a bribe blinds the discerning and perverts the words of the righteous.
Deu 16:19
“You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.
Deu 25:1
“If there is a dispute between men, and they come to court, that the judges may judge them, and they justify the righteous and condemn the wicked,
1Ki 8:32
“then hear in heaven, and act, and judge Your servants, condemning the wicked, bringing his way on his head, and justifying the righteous by giving him according to his righteousness.
Job 17:9
Yet the righteous will hold to his way,
Job 22:19
The righteous see it and are glad,
Job 36:7
He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous
Psa 1:5
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6
For the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
Psa 5:12
For You, O LORD, will bless the righteous; With favor You will surround him as with a shield.
Psa 11:3
If the foundations are destroyed, What can the righteous do?
Psa 11:5
The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.

There are many, many more....
Jim,

Are you saying we could be righteous of our own power?

There is none righteous, no not one.
Romans (3? -- no Bible)

People were saved in the OT too...By faith.
So if they had faith, the righteousness of God was imputed to them.

In the new testament we have faith in Jesus so we say our righteousness is imputed to us by Him because of our faith in Him.

It's the same concept...
 
It doesn't seem to me that we BECOME righteous, we are right with God upon accepting Jesus as our Savior.
Romans 5:17


We are right with Him at that moment.

We are forgiven of all our past sins.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:21-26

When we are joined to the Lord, through faith, and have His Spirit abiding in us, God sees you through the righteousness of His Son.

If we sin, then we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Let's look at the principle, of forgiveness, from a teaching of the Lord.

15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17

and again

Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
Luke 17:1-4

The common denominator in these two teachings from the Lord, concerning forgiveness is: Repent to be forgiven.

Matthew describes this as, you go to a brother who has sinned against you, and you tell him what he has done to you.

If he hears you, which is another way of saying he repents, then you need to forgive and be reconciled: you have gained your brother.

Jesus says...If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

That is how forgiveness is attained in God's kingdom.

Now, lets apply that to us, and the Lord.

This teaching that once we "believe", we are forever saved and all our past present and future sins are automatically forgiven, is simply not true.

If we do commit a sin, then we confess our sin to the Lord and ask for His forgiveness, and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

If we neglect this and just continue to live in sin, then we will have a problem.

The Lord will speak to you and if you do not listen, He will send people to talk to you, if you still refuse to listen, then the day will come when he will allow you to eat the fruit of your own way, which is to say, ...let you be to Him like a heathen and a tax collector.



JLB
 
Are you saying we could be righteous of our own power?
I'm suggesting that it would be worth while to define exactly what we mean by the word "righteous" before we start tossing it around as if we actually all agreed on exactly what we mean.

There are are multitude of verses of scripture in which people are identified as being "righteous." Jesus even stated ,"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." (Mat 9:13; Mar 2:17; Luk 5:32) Apparently, Jesus considered that there were righteous people.

For example: Luke 1:5-6 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechari'ah, of the division of Abi'jah; and he had a wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Therefore, Nathan's statement: "God alone is righteous - therefore there can be no righteousness outside of Him." (#634) cannot be correct.

iakov the fool
 
We are right with Him at that moment.

We are forgiven of all our past sins.

21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:21-26

When we are joined to the Lord, through faith, and have His Spirit abiding in us, God sees you through the righteousness of His Son.

If we sin, then we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Let's look at the principle, of forgiveness, from a teaching of the Lord.

15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17

and again

Then He said to the disciples, “It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come! 2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
Luke 17:1-4

The common denominator in these two teachings from the Lord, concerning forgiveness is: Repent to be forgiven.

Matthew describes this as, you go to a brother who has sinned against you, and you tell him what he has done to you.

If he hears you, which is another way of saying he repents, then you need to forgive and be reconciled: you have gained your brother.

Jesus says...If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.

That is how forgiveness is attained in God's kingdom.

Now, lets apply that to us, and the Lord.

This teaching that once we "believe", we are forever saved and all our past present and future sins are automatically forgiven, is simply not true.

If we do commit a sin, then we confess our sin to the Lord and ask for His forgiveness, and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

If we neglect this and just continue to live in sin, then we will have a problem.

The Lord will speak to you and if you do not listen, He will send people to talk to you, if you still refuse to listen, then the day will come when he will allow you to eat the fruit of your own way, which is to say, ...let you be to Him like a heathen and a tax collector.

JLB

Hi JLB

I especially like what I highlighted above.
I very much see this concept and have stated it several times.

Mathew 22:1-14 The Marriage Feast
We must put on the proper clothing that the Host of the wedding gives us or we will not be invited to the banquet.

Romans 13.14
Put on the Lord Jesus - like clothing

Galatians 3.27
Those who are baptized with Christ, are clothes with Christ

You then go on to speak about sin and forgiveness.
Being right with God (righteousness) does require that we be forgiven and be made right with God.

I believe I can assume that what you're saying is that we receive our righteousness from God and then we must continue in it. We must continue to be right with God. (by our lifestyle)
 
I'm suggesting that it would be worth while to define exactly what we mean by the word "righteous" before we start tossing it around as if we actually all agreed on exactly what we mean.

There are are multitude of verses of scripture in which people are identified as being "righteous." Jesus even stated ,"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." (Mat 9:13; Mar 2:17; Luk 5:32) Apparently, Jesus considered that there were righteous people.

For example: Luke 1:5-6 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechari'ah, of the division of Abi'jah; and he had a wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Therefore, Nathan's statement: "God alone is righteous - therefore there can be no righteousness outside of Him." (#634) cannot be correct.

iakov the fool
Yes. This might be a good idea.

I believe Nathan is using the concept that only God is righteous in the sense of the meaning of the word as:

RIGHTEOUSNESS
The state of being perfect and without sin.
Or...

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Righteousness
We know that God is righteous but what does this word mean? It certainly means that there is a right-ness in God. All that He is and all that he does is right and unlike humans, He is righteous in all He says as that is one of His attributes. The Old Testament says that God is righteous. In Psalm 7:11a we read “God is a righteous judge.” The word righteous in the Hebrew is “tsaddiy” which means just, lawful, and correct. The word righteous in the New Testament comes from the Greek word “dikaios” which means observing divine laws or upright, faultless, innocent, and guiltless. These are all descriptive of God Himself and no human has any of these attributes inherent in themselves even though we can do things that are upright and observe the divine laws like the Ten Commandments while not being able to obey them all, but how can fallen creatures like us be righteous?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christ...eousness-mean-in-the-bible-a-christian-study/

It is also used this way but this is not the Christian meaning:

RIGHTEOUS
Pronunciation (US):
111677.png


Dictionary entry overview: What does righteous mean?

RIGHTEOUS (adjective)
The adjective RIGHTEOUS has 2 senses:

1. characterized by or proceeding from accepted standards of morality or justice
2. morally justified

Familiarity information: RIGHTEOUS used as an adjective is rare.


Dictionary entry details


righteous [BACK TO TOP]


Meaning:

Characterized by or proceeding from accepted standards of morality or justice

Context example:

the...prayer of a righteous man availeth much

Similar:

good; just; upright (of moral excellence)

sound (free from moral defect)



Also:

good (morally admirable)

clean-handed; guiltless; innocent (free from evil or guilt)

just (used especially of what is legally or ethically right or proper or fitting)

moral (concerned with principles of right and wrong or conforming to standards of behavior and character based on those principles)

virtuous (morally excellent)

worthy (having worth or merit or value; being honorable or admirable)

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

So this is how I understand it:

God IS righteousness. He is perfect and without sin.
Psalm 7:9
John 17:25

He acts righteously.
Jeremiah 9:24

He judges righteously.
Psalm 98:9

His commandments are righteous.
Romans 7:12

His righteousness edures forever.
Psalm 112:3
(from Zondervan Study Bible NIV)


WE are not righteous in ourselves.
Romans 3:10

We are MADE righteous (right with God) through God.
Romans 4:11

So only God is righteous, meaning perfect and sinless.
But man could also be righteous, meaning right with God.

Comment?
 
I believe I can assume that what you're saying is that we receive our righteousness from God and then we must continue in it. We must continue to be right with God. (by our lifestyle)


Yes, according to the measure of our maturity, God expects us to to walk with Him in righteousness, as Jesus did.

To the degree we have matured, and grown up into Him, to measure of the stature of a perfect [complete] man, God expects us to walk in righteousness and truth.

He does not expect as much from a new Christian.

Jesus is our example, the we are to measure ourselves by, that we may be conformed to His image, to walk as He walked.


11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:11-16

  • till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

God is for us, and desires us to mature and grow in righteousness.




JLB
 
I'm suggesting that it would be worth while to define exactly what we mean by the word "righteous" before we start tossing it around as if we actually all agreed on exactly what we mean.

There are are multitude of verses of scripture in which people are identified as being "righteous." Jesus even stated ,"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." (Mat 9:13; Mar 2:17; Luk 5:32) Apparently, Jesus considered that there were righteous people.

For example: Luke 1:5-6 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechari'ah, of the division of Abi'jah; and he had a wife of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Therefore, Nathan's statement: "God alone is righteous - therefore there can be no righteousness outside of Him." (#634) cannot be correct.

iakov the fool

Well I suppose your right, we should define it so there is no confusion;

Job 36:1-12
And Elihu continued, and said:

“Bear with me a little, and I will show you,
for I have yet something to say on God's behalf.

I will get my knowledge from afar
and ascribe righteousness to my Maker.

For truly my words are not false;
one who is perfect in knowledge is with you.

“Behold, God is mighty, and does not despise any;
he is mighty in strength of understanding.

He does not keep the wicked alive,
but gives the afflicted their right.

He does not withdraw his eyes from the righteous,
but with kings on the throne
he sets them forever, and they are exalted.

And if they are bound in chains
and caught in the cords of affliction,

then he declares to them their work
and their transgressions, that they are behaving arrogantly.

He opens their ears to instruction
and commands that they return from iniquity.

If they listen and serve him,
they complete their days in prosperity,
and their years in pleasantness.

But if they do not listen, they perish by the sword
and die without knowledge.

Psalms 14:1-3
The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
there is none who does good.

The LORD looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,
who seek after God.

They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good,
not even one.


Any and all righteousness belongs to God. Those times you 'see' righteousness being said about someone else is only because God gives them the ability to do those things - and therefore be seen as righteous. It pleases Him when man chooses His way and therefore has righteousness flow through him.

Branch and Tree analogy. The branch has zero way of having any sort of nutrients in itself. It draws from the tree. It is the roots that supply all the nutrients to the Tree and then in turn to the branches.

Potter and Clay analogy. The Potter makes a vessel. That vessel contains whatever the Potter desires to put into it. It cannot change what is inside of it, only the Potter can. It also is only described by what it contains - example; water pot, chamber pot, flour pot, grain pot, grease pot, etc.

If a person is said to be 'righteous' it is only because God is letting His righteousness be in, and flow through, that person. That's why it is said; "He who is righteous practices righteousness". If you are in Christ, you have righteousness flowing through you, and it will produce fruit. If there is no fruit, then there is something wrong.
 
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