question for OSAS believers

[Solo]

If you are not born again, sealed by the Holy Spirit you are not running the race, you only think you are.

If your are not running the race for Jesus, you are not born again. so simple.

You have illustrated the conditional salvation belief perfectly. Conditional Salvation puts the cart before the horse. You cannot run the race until you are in the race, and you are not in the race until you have been born again. Once you are born again, you have the Holy Spirit living within you, and you need no man to teach you or lie to you.

• But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:27

Once one has the Holy Spirit abiding within them after being born again, they cannot lose their salvation. The Holy Spirit is not going to cease indwelling a born again, born of God believer. He is there to stay until the redemption of the body and the new creature.

Salvation is based on Jesus Christ's work on the cross, and not the works of man. Faith in Christ is the impetus of one's being born again, and once one is born again, they are about the Father's business. The works that are then generated in a born again believer are those inspired of God Himself as he lives within us. Nothing of the flesh is good, nor how can it be. Only that which is born of God is good, the new creature.

The mother of harlots and all of the harlots teach that being baptized as an infant is the time one is born again. That is a lie straight from the pit of hell. Not one single solitary place in Scripture is there an example of an infant being baptized for salvation. All examples in Scripture of one becoming a born again believer is where individuals hear the Word of God and believe. A believer is born again at the point of hearing the Word of God and believing in Jesus Christ for salvation. If any teach another gospel other than this truth, let them be accursed (anathema). Because the mother of harlots requires continued actions from the laity in keeping their "salvation" in order to control them and others, they require false teachings, one of which is conditional salvation.

• But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:8

 

[Solo]

Those who reject the belief that Jesus Christ has paid the entire sin debt do not believe in the works of Jesus Christ, but only believe in their own ability to keep God's righteous law. This is the same teaching brought about by the Judaizers that Paul wrote the Galatians about.

It is not a matter of "rejecting the belief". It is a matter of not LIVING the belief...

Those living in sin do not abide in Christ. They are NOT saved from sin AS they continue to be enslaved by sin.

A person living under the slavery of sin is NOT SAVED FROM SIN!

It is a denial of reality.

The Scriptures are clear that those who are born again, born from above, born of God are saved, and will have eternal life. God seals those who are born again, born of God with Himself, the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when the old nasty sinful corrupt mortal flesh will be changed and united with the new creature that was born again at belief in Christ Jesus.

Here is an example of one who was born again and living in fornication, yet his spirit is saved in the day of Jesus Christ:

• 1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged F14 already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Those who hold to the Conditional Salvation teaching have to add that such a one repented before salvation, but that is a lie as well, for there is nothing in that section of Scripture that denotes such a belief. Instead it observes that a born again believer that is living in sin must be turned over to satan so that the nasty sinful flesh is destroyed, but that his born again, born of God spirit is saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Those who refuse to let God teach them the truth concerning salvation continue to misinterpret the Scriptures, and allude that one loses salvation in verses that speak of rewards and loss of rewards. Paul is writing to those who are not able to eat the meat of the word because they are still babes in Christ, and he gives them information about building upon the foundation of their faith. He tells them that whatever is built on the foundation of Jesus Christ will be proved through fire; and that which is done in the flesh is as wood, hay, and stubble; but that which is done in the spirit is gold, silver and precious stones. If all that a man builds is wood, hay, and stubble (those things done in the flesh which is sin) he will suffer loss of rewards but will be saved.

• 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

Christ Jesus died for ALL of our sins, for who can be forgiven of any sin unless payment is made by someone else. No one is capable of paying for their own sins by any means, confession or penance. Sin has been done away with for all those who have been born again, born from above, born of God, and are not under the law but under faith.

Christ died for ALL of EVERYONE'S sins. Not just those born from above. God desires ALL men are saved, and OFFERS that to ALL men, by His Grace and Mercy, not by randomly selecting some for perdition and others for eternal life.

Regards

Correct! Jesus paid the price for the whole entire world's sin; past, present, and future! Only those who are born again will enter into the Kingdom of God. Once born again, one is forever in Christ Jesus never to be unborn from the body of Christ.

 

[Solo]

If they are saved they are saved, period.

Exactly!

That would have been so nice if that was true.

Fact is that only after you have run the race and endured , you are saved.

Mat 24:13 But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.

Notice it is not past tense...........its something in the future.

Cornelius,

You have absolutely no ability in your flesh to run the race and endure until the end because your flesh is sold under sin. Unless you have been born again, born from above, born of God; you cannot walk in the Spirit, in the new man.

What understanding do you have concerning the NEW MAN, the NEW CREATURE, the INWARD MAN being BORN FROM ABOVE?

Unless you have a God that is unable to create a creature unburdened by the curse of sin, you have swallowed a lie, hook, line, and sinker!

My God is able to seal me with Himself, the Holy Spirit; through belief in Himself, Jesus Christ; being forgiven of all sins by Himself, my Father in Heaven!

If your god is not able to do this, then you need to seek a little further for the right God!

• Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17
  
  Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Ephesians 2:15
  
  And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Ephesians 4:24
  
  And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Colossians 3:10
  
  For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Galatians 6:15
  
  For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: Romans 7:22
  
  For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. 2 Corinthians 4:16

 

[shad]

You have illustrated the conditional salvation belief perfectly. Conditional Salvation puts the cart before the horse. You cannot run the race until you are in the race, and you are not in the race until you have been born again. Once you are born again, you have the Holy Spirit living within you, and you need no man to teach you or lie to you.

You are judging who is running the race and who are born again. Only Jesus is the Judge. You should know that,friend. You should stop your superiority complex attitude. It is not of Jesus.

 

[Solo]

You have illustrated the conditional salvation belief perfectly. Conditional Salvation puts the cart before the horse. You cannot run the race until you are in the race, and you are not in the race until you have been born again. Once you are born again, you have the Holy Spirit living within you, and you need no man to teach you or lie to you.

You are judging who is running the race and who are born again. Only Jesus is the Judge. You should know that,friend. You should stop your superiority complex attitude. It is not of Jesus.

Those who have been born again, born from above, born of God have the mind of Christ, and are to judge all things, but are not judged of any man.

• 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:15-16

Those who are born again are running the race, and those who are not born again only think they are running the race. What race? The race that Christ endured and overcome sin which He gave us to run as born again, saved ambassadors of His Kingdom.

• 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author F41 and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Hebrews 12:1-3

 

[LostSoul]

In terms of faith....having it is not something of which I personally have come to understand to be enough. For faith without works is dead. Just as works without faith is also so. As believers to simply say I have a relationship with Christ is not enough. For are we not all called to minister unto others and to walk after Jesus?

I apologize if I am overstepping or implying something I should not. In short as I have said before, from what I have read, I believe very much so in my heart we cannot truly be of God without living in Christ as well as loving in Christ.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Solo]

In terms of faith....having it is not something of which I personally have come to understand to be enough. For faith without works is dead. Just as works without faith is also so. As believers to simply say I have a relationship with Christ is not enough. For are we not all called to minister unto others and to walk after Jesus?

I apologize if I am overstepping or implying something I should not. In short as I have said before, from what I have read, I believe very much so in my heart we cannot truly be of God without living in Christ as well as loving in Christ.

May God Bless You

Danielle

I agree with you. Saying that one is a believer is not enough to make one a believer. Only by being born of the Holy Spirit can one be a believer; and once one is born of God; he or she is always a child of God. No other beings on the planet earth are children of God unless they are born again.

Being born into the physical world makes one a child of parents forever and ever; how much more is one a child of God after being born of God and given eternal life?

 

[Imagican]

It's amazing to listen to so many that would openly offer: "I AM SAVED".

Hate to burst your bubble folks, but the truth is, you WON'T know if you ARE or AREN'T until final judgment.

Paul offers FREELY that we are to RUN THE RACE LIKE WE MEAN TO WIN IT. He also offers that those that don't have NO REASON to BELIEVE anything other than condemnation and judgement.

Warning Will Robinson, Danger, Danger. This OSAS is a tool of the deceiver to bring about complacency that has NEVER been taught in scripture.

There is not a SINGLE soul on this forum that is able to TRUTHFULLY Offer that that they "ARE SAVED''. For this CANNOT be accomplished UNTIL JUDGEMENT. Who among those present is able to offer 'THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT'? And if you state that you are saved according to such, then you are a LIAR. For GOD Is the judge and we are mere mortals IN THE FLESH.

We have the words that there will be MANY that step to Jesus in the future and point out ALL THE WONDEROUS WORKS they have DONE. And Jesus' reply, "Go away from me for I know NOT who you are''. He doesn't even KNOW them.

Now, WHO are these being refered to? I can ASSURE you that these will be MANY that upon questioned concerning their Salvation would BOLDLY OFFER, "I KNOW I'M SAVED". Yet we have been warned that there WILL BE MANY of these that Jesus DOESN'T EVEN KNOW.

Fear and Trembling folks, fear and trembling.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Solo]

It's amazing to listen to so many that would openly offer: "I AM SAVED".

Hate to burst your bubble folks, but the truth is, you WON'T know if you ARE or AREN'T until final judgment.

Paul offers FREELY that we are to RUN THE RACE LIKE WE MEAN TO WIN IT. He also offers that those that don't have NO REASON to BELIEVE anything other than condemnation and judgement.

Warning Will Robinson, Danger, Danger. This OSAS is a tool of the deceiver to bring about complacency that has NEVER been taught in scripture.

There is not a SINGLE soul on this forum that is able to TRUTHFULLY Offer that that they "ARE SAVED''. For this CANNOT be accomplished UNTIL JUDGEMENT. Who among those present is able to offer 'THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT'? And if you state that you are saved according to such, then you are a LIAR. For GOD Is the judge and we are mere mortals IN THE FLESH.

We have the words that there will be MANY that step to Jesus in the future and point out ALL THE WONDEROUS WORKS they have DONE. And Jesus' reply, "Go away from me for I know NOT who you are''. He doesn't even KNOW them.

Now, WHO are these being refered to? I can ASSURE that these will be MANY that upon questioned concerning their Salvation would BOLDLY OFFER, "I KNOW I'M SAVED". Yet we have been warned that there WILL BE MANY of these that Jesus DOESN'T EVEN KNOW.

Blessings,

MEC

• Reasons Why People Lack Assurance
  
  (1) People often lack assurance because they cannot remember or point to a specific time when they received Christ. Some doubt or wonder if they were ever really saved. There is a specific point in time when salvation occursâ€â€the point when regeneration takes place. The issue for people is to know if they now really trust in the person and work of Christ.
  
  (2) People often lack assurance because they question the procedure they went through when they accepted Christ. Many evangelists and preachers emphasize the need for some form of public confession of faith like going forward at the end of a service or raising your hand. If people receive Christ privately, they may wonder if they should have made a public confession or prayed a different prayer.
  
  (3) People often lack assurance because of struggles they have with certain sins. They wonder if a true believer would have these kinds of problems. The real problem is ignorance of man’s sinful nature, the spiritual warfare we are in, God’s means of deliverance, and the need to grow and mature in Christ.
  
  (4) The primary reason behind a lack of assurance is doctrinal misunderstanding and the consequent lack of faith in the finished work of Christ. This means a failure to understand the Word and its teaching regarding mankind, his sin and inability to work for or maintain his salvation, God’s perfect holiness, and the finished nature and sufficiency of the work of Christ.
  
  (5) Finally, people often lack assurance because they have erroneously been taught that they should look to themselves and their works as the primary proof of their salvation. This is a major issue today. Robert Lightner writes:
  
  [list:1qfmadt1]Those who think the sinner must make Christ Lord of his life, or at least promise to do so, before he can be saved make assurance rest on the evidence of a surrendered walk. MacArthur cites this as the only way a believer can be assured of his or her salvation. ‘Genuine assurance comes from seeing the Holy Spirit’s transforming work in one’s life, not from clinging to the memory of some experience.’7
  
  7 Robert Lightner, Sin, The Savior, and Salvation, Thomas Nelson, Nashville, 1991, p. 246 quoting John MacArthur, The Gospel According to Jesus, p. 23.

So what is the proper basis for assurance? Should we look to some experience or our works?

Retrieved from article Assurance of Salvation by J. Hampton Keathley, III , Th.M at http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1415[/list:u:1qfmadt1]Read the entire article Here

 

[shad]

It's amazing to listen to so many that would openly offer: "I AM SAVED".

Hate to burst your bubble folks, but the truth is, you WON'T know if you ARE or AREN'T until final judgment.

Paul offers FREELY that we are to RUN THE RACE LIKE WE MEAN TO WIN IT. He also offers that those that don't have NO REASON to BELIEVE anything other than condemnation and judgement.

Amen imagican.

Those people who are boasting about their salvation and saying "they are saved" are judging themselves and others. It is not of Jesus. "God loves humble and resist the proud".

 

[shad]

Those who have been born again, born from above, born of God have the mind of Christ, and are to judge all things, but are not judged of any man.

You are judging people who don't agree with by saying they are born again.

• 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:15-16

You have the mind of Christ and people who don't agree with you are not??? This is again spirit of pride.

Those who are born again are running the race, and those who are not born again only think they are running the race. What race? The race that Christ endured and overcome sin which He gave us to run as born again, saved ambassadors of His Kingdom.

You are continually boasting that your opponents are not born again.

• 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author F41 and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Hebrews 12:1-3

what is your point?

 

[LostSoul]

It's amazing to listen to so many that would openly offer: "I AM SAVED".

Hate to burst your bubble folks, but the truth is, you WON'T know if you ARE or AREN'T until final judgment.

Paul offers FREELY that we are to RUN THE RACE LIKE WE MEAN TO WIN IT. He also offers that those that don't have NO REASON to BELIEVE anything other than condemnation and judgement.

Warning Will Robinson, Danger, Danger. This OSAS is a tool of the deceiver to bring about complacency that has NEVER been taught in scripture.

There is not a SINGLE soul on this forum that is able to TRUTHFULLY Offer that that they "ARE SAVED''. For this CANNOT be accomplished UNTIL JUDGEMENT. Who among those present is able to offer 'THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT'? And if you state that you are saved according to such, then you are a LIAR. For GOD Is the judge and we are mere mortals IN THE FLESH.

We have the words that there will be MANY that step to Jesus in the future and point out ALL THE WONDEROUS WORKS they have DONE. And Jesus' reply, "Go away from me for I know NOT who you are''. He doesn't even KNOW them.

Now, WHO are these being refered to? I can ASSURE you that these will be MANY that upon questioned concerning their Salvation would BOLDLY OFFER, "I KNOW I'M SAVED". Yet we have been warned that there WILL BE MANY of these that Jesus DOESN'T EVEN KNOW.

Fear and Trembling folks, fear and trembling.

Blessings,

MEC

Imagican,

I am sorry if I implied, hinted, or otherwise stated that I knew of my salvation, that of others, or boasted in any way in regards of this topic. No offense was meant with my views. As I tried to state prior to this response here....a relationship with God is not something we can simply say we have. It has to be worked on too. Though doing one without the other from what I have come to understand...is in a word....pointless.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Solo]

It's amazing to listen to so many that would openly offer: "I AM SAVED".

Hate to burst your bubble folks, but the truth is, you WON'T know if you ARE or AREN'T until final judgment.

Paul offers FREELY that we are to RUN THE RACE LIKE WE MEAN TO WIN IT. He also offers that those that don't have NO REASON to BELIEVE anything other than condemnation and judgement.

Amen imagican.

Those people who are boasting about their salvation and saying "they are saved" are judging themselves and others. It is not of Jesus. "God loves humble and resist the proud".

Proclaiming the truth of the word of God is not boasting, and declaring God's Salvation to all mankind to those who believe is not boasting. You come across to me as being young in the faith, and still learning the basics of Christianity; however, be careful, my friend, for you are accusing the brethren as satan does! You are making false witness against what I teach, and you are making false accusations about my boasting of my salvation. You are at the point where Peter was when Jesus told him, "Get thee behind me satan."

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Revelation 12:9-11

 

[Solo]

Those who have been born again, born from above, born of God have the mind of Christ, and are to judge all things, but are not judged of any man.

You are judging people who don't agree with by saying they are born again.

No where have I said that those who oppose being eternally secure in Christ are not born again. Nor have I stated that any one member of this forum was not born again.

• 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:15-16

You have the mind of Christ and people who don't agree with you are not??? This is again spirit of pride.

All who are born again have the mind of Christ. This is the Word of God, not a spirit of pride.

Those who are born again are running the race, and those who are not born again only think they are running the race. What race? The race that Christ endured and overcome sin which He gave us to run as born again, saved ambassadors of His Kingdom.

You are continually boasting that your opponents are not born again.

Again, No where have I said that those who oppose being eternally secure in Christ are not born again. Nor have I stated that any one member of this forum was not born again.

• 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. Hebrews 12:1-3

what is your point?

The point of God's Word in this section of Scripture is that Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of the faith in which we run for He endured the cross and overcame the world for us so that we can enter the kingdom of God, free from the penalty of sin. Our salvation has absolutely nothing to do with our works, but has everything to do with Christ Jesus works.

 

[francisdesales]

The Scriptures are clear that those who are born again, born from above, born of God are saved, and will have eternal life.

WHILE they walk in Christ, my friend. Eternal life is Christ. Not a bus ticket. If Christ does not abide in you, you don't have eternal life anymore. We can judge if Christ abides in us by our faith working in love - our obedience to God, since disobedience is unfaithfulness. See Hebrews.

God seals those who are born again, born of God with Himself, the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when the old nasty sinful corrupt mortal flesh will be changed and united with the new creature that was born again at belief in Christ Jesus.

Being sealed does not guarantee eternal salvation upon our death. You keep repeating that mantra, but Scriptures do not make that claim. Being sealed means we are God's "property", God's People. We are no longer guided by an evil principle, but the Spirit of God Himself. Unless we choose to return to the vomit of our past life. Then, the "seal" and its promise is "worse than before"...

Here is an example of one who was born again and living in fornication, yet his spirit is saved in the day of Jesus Christ:

• 1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged F14 already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Corinthians 5:1-5

Those who hold to the Conditional Salvation teaching have to add that such a one repented before salvation, but that is a lie as well, for there is nothing in that section of Scripture that denotes such a belief. Instead it observes that a born again believer that is living in sin must be turned over to satan so that the nasty sinful flesh is destroyed, but that his born again, born of God spirit is saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ.

AH, more reading of Scriptures that do not take into account what is actually said.

It doesn't say this person WILL be saved despite his sin and being turned over to satan. It says that he MAY be saved as a result of being cast out... The word "may" is not the same as "will". ONLY in 2 Corinthians do we learn that this man INDEED REPENTED. The purpose of this "turning over to satan" is to provide bring a man to repentance. However, there is no guarantee that he will repent and come back to the Lord. The point of excommunication is that such a person is humbled and returns to God and the community.

Those who refuse to let God teach them the truth concerning salvation continue to misinterpret the Scriptures

No doubt...

and allude that one loses salvation in verses that speak of rewards and loss of rewards.

Loss of rewards? Where does the Bible speak of "loss of rewards", unless it speaks of losing EVERYTHING? Being cast out into the night is not a "loss of rewards", it is a loss of salvation!

Paul is writing to those who are not able to eat the meat of the word because they are still babes in Christ, and he gives them information about building upon the foundation of their faith. He tells them that whatever is built on the foundation of Jesus Christ will be proved through fire; and that which is done in the flesh is as wood, hay, and stubble; but that which is done in the spirit is gold, silver and precious stones. If all that a man builds is wood, hay, and stubble (those things done in the flesh which is sin) he will suffer loss of rewards but will be saved.

It doesn't say a person will suffer a "loss of rewards", Solo.
It says suffer a loss - and yet will be saved.

It refers to a purging, since that is what takes place in the comparison above to gold and silver.

"...that which is done in the spirit is gold, silver and precious stones."

Silver and gold don't "lose rewards" when they have impurities! They are purged, forged in the suffering fires of discipline and punishment..

Sounds like Purgatory, but I digress... :yes

Of course, you realize THESE VERY VERSES destroy the idea of "OSAS"? Esp. verse 17...

If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Being destroyed does not indicate a "loss of rewards" - unless it is a TOTAL LOSS and expulsion from the Kingdom, out into the night and the chattering of teeth...

Correct! Jesus paid the price for the whole entire world's sin; past, present, and future! Only those who are born again will enter into the Kingdom of God. Once born again, one is forever in Christ Jesus never to be unborn from the body of Christ.

He did pay the price for the sins of the world. And YET, my friend, all men are not saved. Why? Because some men refuse the offer of redemption. That includes the "born again" who return to the vomit of past life, despite being illuminated. The resulting life is WORSE than before...

There is no need to be "unborn". The proper term is to DIE. That is exactly what Scriptures refer to when we separate ourselves from God. Spiritual death. Thus, one is born from above, and one can die - by sin - since the wages of sin is death.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I am sorry if I implied, hinted, or otherwise stated that I knew of my salvation, that of others, or boasted in any way in regards of this topic. No offense was meant with my views. As I tried to state prior to this response here....a relationship with God is not something we can simply say we have. It has to be worked on too. Though doing one without the other from what I have come to understand...is in a word....pointless.

May God Bless You

Danielle[/color]

I agree. Too many people rather flippantly boast of their relationship with God, when in reality, Jesus warns against such high-minded presumptions, as in Matthew 7:21. We should approach such matters much more humbly, realizing that we are liars if we live in sin while claiming to have a "relationship" with God.

Regards

 

[Solo]

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: 2 Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, F1 but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange F2 flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. 12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. 24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. Jude 1:1-24

• F1: first estate: or, principality
  F2: strange: Gr. other

 

[shad]

Solo,

It seems that your over all reasoning is that if we are born again, we are saved? Is that what you are saying?

 

[Good News Brown]

Solo, unfortunately, is presuming that if one was saved 20 years ago, then one WILL be saved, irrefutably, upon one's subsequent death and judgment. While he is correct on one thing - we ARE saved and released from the slavery of sin, he is incorrect in that it doesn't follow that we will REMAIN saved and free from the slavery of sin - as evidenced by many Scriptures that speak of falling away. Returning to a life of sin is NOT freedom from the slavery of sin - and thus, we are not saved from sin anymore.

Alcoholics who give up drinking have been freed from the slavery of drinking - UNLESS - they begin to drink again. It would be ludicrous to say that because one had stopped drinking and returned, that they are STILL free from the slavery of drink...! :crazy

Same with sin. A person living in sin is not free from sin! :amen

This is not rocket science here...

Regards

I think we all know that one doesn't need to clean up their act before coming to Christ Matthew 11:28. I often hear things like a believer with an alcohol problem couldn't be saved. And if they were truly saved, they would quit drinking immediately. I don't know what some people think. I guess they think that if they received Christ at the time they had an alcohol addiction, they would magically quit. Realistically, the only reason you and I are not lying in an alley with a bottle of wine in our hands, is by the sheer no holds barred grace and mercy of God. We've been spared the addiction. Any sin we don't commit can be attributed to God's mercy. King Abimelech, although perhaps not a man of faith per Genesis 20:11, thought he was justified in what he didn't do. However, it was God that prevented him from sinning.

 

[Good News Brown]

Those who reject the belief that Jesus Christ has paid the entire sin debt do not believe in the works of Jesus Christ, but only believe in their own ability to keep God's righteous law. This is the same teaching brought about by the Judaizers that Paul wrote the Galatians about.

It is not a matter of "rejecting the belief". It is a matter of not LIVING the belief...

Those living in sin do not abide in Christ. They are NOT saved from sin AS they continue to be enslaved by sin. Merely saying "I went to AA meetings, so I can drink all I want, I cannot become an alcoholic again" is as futile as what you have been proposing...

Nowhere have I denied the teachings that we are offered salvation by grace, by God's mercy, not our works... Your posting of Galatians is a non-sequitar.

A person living under the slavery of sin is NOT SAVED FROM SIN!

It is a denial of reality.

Christ Jesus died for ALL of our sins, for who can be forgiven of any sin unless payment is made by someone else. No one is capable of paying for their own sins by any means, confession or penance. Sin has been done away with for all those who have been born again, born from above, born of God, and are not under the law but under faith.

Christ died for ALL of EVERYONE'S sins. Not just those born from above. God desires ALL men are saved, and OFFERS that to ALL men, by His Grace and Mercy, not by randomly selecting some for perdition and others for eternal life.

Regards

However, the Bible does speak clearly of election. And the elect are so by unmerited favor. This is a concept that's foreign to the carnal mind. What we do know, is that God will not reject anyone who sincerely cries out to Him for salvation. In other words, when one believes on the name of Jesus, He will not say I won't save you because you are not of the elect. Even still, there is a pre-destinated elect.