Questions for those who think the RCC is the Whore.

Just a few questions for those who think the Roman Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.

Who is the Scarlet Beast?
Who are the 7 kings?
Who are the 10 horns?

More questions will follow depending on answers.
Repost because of site issues.

 

[Paul Timothy]

The question I asked is for you. The commentary in the next paragraph is not directed at anybody in particular.

This thread is about people who believe the RCC is the Whore... as I don't believe that I would not feel I am honoring the OP by posting my alternative views.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This thread is about people who believe the RCC is the Whore... as I don't believe that I would not feel I am honoring the OP by posting my alternative views.

Well, apparently, the OP doesn't believe the RCC is the whore.

Do you believe, along with the OP, that the RCC is not the Whore of Babylon? I agree with the OP. That's why I shared. If you agree, too, tell us why.

 

[Paul Timothy]

Well, apparently, the OP doesn't believe the RCC is the whore.

Do you believe, along with the OP, that the RCC is not the Whore of Babylon? I agree with the OP. That's why I shared. If you agree, too, tell us why.

I also don't believe the Whore is the RCC.
But to keep in keeping with the terms of service I will keep to the spirit of the OP.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I also don't believe the Whore is the RCC.
But to keep in keeping with the terms of service I will keep to the spirit of the OP.

I wasn't called out for my opinion that the RCC is not the whore so I'm sure doing that is not a violation of the TOS. So tell us why you don't think the RCC is the whore, just as I have done.

 

[Paul Timothy]

I wasn't called out for my opinion that the RCC is not the whore so I'm sure doing that is not a violation of the TOS. So tell us why you don't think the RCC is the whore, just as I have done.

I will if you start a thread that asks that question and I find the conversation engaging enough.

 

[for_his_glory]

City of renown to man, not to God. The only city of honor or blasphemy on earth with 7 hills, that most matters to God in all of prophecy of Scripture, is Jerusalem. Both the earthy and heavenly one.

A little wisdom of Scripture says it's Jerusalem, where our Lord was slain.



Obviously Rome to Christian religious historians. Jerusalem matters most to the Lord of David. (Rev 11:8, 17:18)

Historical knowledge of Roman Imperialism, is that all former kings and kingdoms ceased to exist, when Roman legions destroyed their armies and power. Rome didn't rule and reign over kings, but destroyed them and took their kingdoms for provinces of Rome. Including that of the Herodian line over Judea.

The great whore is that great city that is spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified: Jeruslaem.



The problem here is teaching for doctrine and prophecy, the history of man, by applying Scriptural warfare physically to man's history, rather than spiritually where it belongs.

The deadly head wound is the smiting of the head of any false Christian apostle and teacher, by the sword of the Spirit and word of God.

A beast with wounded head in Scripture, is a false teacher spiritually and ministerially slain by God's word, who goes on to revive his own teaching in the name of Christ. God's mercy is to give every false apostle and teacher a clear personal warning and line not to cross.

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

He that was a minister of God, and is not ministering God's word, and yet is ministering falsely, in appearance as a minister of God.




The churches of God were in the wilderness apart from the dominant religion of man since the beginning, when the church at Jerusalem was being persecuted by the Jews religion.

For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

That cycle of men perverting Christ's body with their on religious form, has been going on ever since. It includes the Jews religion, Catholic religion, the Church of England and Spain, etc...

It's the same old cycle oft-repeated, but will end with the greatest antichrist organization of all, just before the Lord's return.

The simple sign of the time of the Lord's return, will be a united organization of churches founded by one man in Jerusalem, that will be hailed by CHristians and Jews alike as the promised coming to earth of the risen King and His thousand year rule.

Those who don't believe He is Jesus Christ come again in the flesh, will be outcasts at first, and then finally persecuted to death.





It means those enduring temptation, deception, and persecution to the end of this life, shall inherit eternal salvation.

Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.





The Pope may join the last beast, but will not be him. From among all Christian denominations, there will be believers that are subverted by the beast to his own gospel and body of churches. He will rise up in Jerusalem to deceive any and all people that will hear and believe him. That includes Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics, atheist, etc... He will be believed as the second coming of Christ in the flesh, after risen from the dead.

He makes ministerial war with the saints that refuse him as Christ and Lord, before finally physically attacking them through proselytized rulers and local gvts.


True. Every soul of man seeking to advance himself as a god in his own right, is following the error of Lucifer, beginning with Adam.



Exactly. The cycle has come over and over, beginning with the rising up of Cain against righteous Abel, and will end with the last organization full of Cains resentful of their faithful and righteous brothers.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

After a period of consolidation of power and persecution out of Jerusalem, the Lord returns into the air and resurrects all His people since Abel, and with them alive and remaining on earth, they will caught up into the air with Him. At that time, there will be nothing preventing the last antichrist from appearing to be exactly what he is: just another lying man, and not the true Christ, Jesus.

The woman on the scarlet beast is that great city Jerusalem. (Rev 11:8. 17:18)

And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

That great city of whoredom and abomination is the organizational home of any antichrist cult leader, that wrests Scripture to deceive them made kings and priests to God, into becoming kings and priests of another head and gospel.

Babylon the great has been made out of God and David's Jerusalem many times. It was the case before the c1st captivity. It was the case at Jesus Christ first coming in the flesh, and will be again at His seconding coming in the air.

There will be plenty of proselytized and perverted Christians, Jew, Muslims, atheists, etc... worshipping the last false christ as Jesus Christ and God Himself come again in the flesh. The deception will work only on those who do not stick with Scripture only, and can be persuaded by lying signs and wonders.

It will be nothing new under the sun, but will just be the last great one on earth, at the Lord's return in the air.

I mean, how hard is it to understand that Christ does not come again from the earth, but from the air? So that every eye on earth will see Him and know He is Christ and Lord, and so become instant believers by sight.

This is just way to much to sift through so all I will say is that Biblical history of nations and all the Empires, with the last one that has been revived will answer the question of who the whore of Babylon is and the beast she rides on.

 

[for_his_glory]

Did I say the Whore and the Beast are the same?
Don't think I would do that as I don't believe it to be that way.
And who is saying the Whore is the RCC or that the Whore is the Anti-Christ?
It looks like you are finding things that I didn't say.

Actually, and I am not being mean or sarcastic, but in all reality you haven't given anything to this thread that anyone can even try to discuss with you.

 

[Paul Timothy]

Actually, and I am not being mean or sarcastic, but in all reality you haven't given anything to this thread that anyone can even try to discuss with you.

Because you are not keeping to the topic of the thread. If you want me to engage with your ideas start a thread on your own and if it is interesting enough, I might join the conversation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Because you are not keeping to the topic of the thread. If you want me to engage with your ideas start a thread on your own and if it is interesting enough, I might join the conversation.

If you're not one who believes that the RCC is the Whore, why did you even post in this thread?

 

[for_his_glory]

Because you are not keeping to the topic of the thread. If you want me to engage with your ideas start a thread on your own and if it is interesting enough, I might join the conversation.

I'm not going to argue with you, but curious why you are even in this thread if you don't have anything to give to it as in your understanding of the OP. I have been discussing the topic until you started with your trolling remarks and I would like to know your intentions by replying absolutely nothing to the OP. I'm sure we would like your take on the subject.

 

[Paul Timothy]

I'm not going to argue with you, but curious why you are even in this thread if you don't have anything to give to it as in your understanding of the OP. I have been discussing the topic until you started with your trolling remarks and I would like to know your intentions by replying absolutely nothing to the OP. I'm sure we would like your take on the subject.

What trolling?

Do you understand the OP?

If you do not believe in the idea that the whore is the RCC then you should not be including your own ideas... that is respect for the OP.

The question is not "who do you think the whore is". The question is specifically about the RCC/Whore theory connection.

As I don't belive the RCC/Whore theory I don't offer comment on who yje Whore could be. But I will explore the weaknesses in the RCC/Whore theory.

This is respecting the OP.

 

[Paul Timothy]

If you're not one who believes that the RCC is the Whore, why did you even post in this thread?

Because this thread wishes to explore the theory that the RCC is the Whore.

If you don't believe the RCC is the Whore then why did you post here?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you don't believe the RCC is the Whore then why did you post here?

The same reason you did...

Because this thread wishes to explore the theory that the RCC is the Whore.

 

[miamited]

Hi all,

Well, as one late to the party, I've long believed that the descriptors given of the woman riding the beast, points to the RCC. The seven hills and the colors that she wears don't really seem to fit with other people groups or religious affiliations that one might match these descriptors to. I do know, that as a supposed 'christian' group, the RCC has murdered more saints than any other. But that was in a time quite a while ago. But the RCC is still the leading killer of saints that sits on seven hills and is adorned in purple and scarlet. As far as I'm able to find.

That the kings of the earth are somehow deeply impacted by the woman on the beast, let's consider that right now the Pope is sending emissaries to Ukraine and Russia to try and impact this conflict there. That also in those days when the RCC was responsible for the killing of so many saints, they pretty much held sway over most of the European nations leaders.

Anyway, we'll see how it all works out.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I've long believed that the descriptors given of the woman riding the beast, points to the RCC. The seven hills and the colors that she wears don't really seem to fit with other people groups or religious affiliations that one might match these descriptors to.

But it's the beast that has the seven heads, not the whore.

 

[Paul Timothy]

Hi all,

Well, as one late to the party, I've long believed that the descriptors given of the woman riding the beast, points to the RCC.

Ok... lets unpack your ideas for a moment.

The seven hills and the colors that she wears don't really seem to fit with other people groups or religious affiliations that one might match these descriptors to.

Why should they relate to people groups or religious affiliations?
Is not purple and scarlet related to wealth and promiscuity?
So that would relate to rich and immoral... and there are quite a few of those groups around.

I do know, that as a supposed 'christian' group, the RCC has murdered more saints than any other. But that was in a time quite a while ago.

Right and that would not connect to the Whore as the Whore is "drunk on the blood of the saints" and we all know how drunkenness works.
One does not be drunk on wine consumed long ago but only newly imbibed wine.

But the RCC is still the leading killer of saints that sits on seven hills and is adorned in purple and scarlet. As far as I'm able to find.

But the hills(mountains) are kings... so where do seven kings exist in the timeline of Rome.
If we are saying the mountains are the physical mountains... that would indicate that the kings are kings of Rome.

That the kings of the earth are somehow deeply impacted by the woman on the beast, let's consider that right now the Pope is sending emissaries to Ukraine and Russia to try and impact this conflict there.

And so is every NATO country.
So that point is not very important in the grand scheme.

That also in those days when the RCC was responsible for the killing of so many saints, they pretty much held sway over most of the European nations leaders.

Right and yesterdays beer is today's hangover... not today's drunkenness.

Anyway, we'll see how it all works out.

Yes... but in the mean time... if we are warned to flee Babylon... where do you go if you do not know who Babylon is?
God gives a command to "come out of her"... so how do we do that without knowing where or how to escape?
Would God give a command without it being possible for you or I to obey?

 

[miamited]

HI Paul Timothy

Why should they relate to people groups or religious affiliations?

What else is there? AI machines? Are we going to finally live the life of John Carter? People groups and religious affiliations, which is just another people group in reality, is what the Scriptures are warning us of. Are you supposing that some great alien force is going to come from the distant galaxies to wipe us out? War of the Worlds, maybe?

Is not purple and scarlet related to wealth and promiscuity?

Not together that I'm aware of. I've heard of red light districts, but scarlet only came up in the scarlet letter, and of course all of our sins are as scarlet before God. I have heard of purple relating to royalty and I can't deny that the Vatican is about chock-a-bloc full of 'royalty'. I mean just look at the dressings of the Vatican Guard. Who wouldn't agree that they seem to think that they're protecting royalty? So, I'm good with the purple reflecting royalty and I find that it fits appropriately with the structure of the RCC.

So that would relate to rich and immoral... and there are quite a few of those groups around.

Well, as I've often allowed at this point. Go with what you know. Any that you have in mind, that wouldn't be a people group or religious group? I'm curious why you argue the 1st point, but then close with nearly adopting what I've said in your 3rd.

Right and that would not connect to the Whore as the Whore is "drunk on the blood of the saints" and we all know how drunkenness works.
One does not be drunk on wine consumed long ago but only newly imbibed wine.

Seems like a pretty tenuous stretch to me. The Whore is drunk on the blood of the saints. I don't really see that such a claim infers any time, but in God's sight, I don't think He's forgotten. Just as Jesus accused Israel of 'killing the prophets before him', he was covering a timespan of several centuries.

But the hills(mountains) are kings... so where do seven kings exist in the timeline of Rome.

Yes, they are also, let me repeat ALSO seven kings. You'd likely have to go back and research the kingly nations that bowed down to Rome in the dark and middle ages. I don't hold to the idea that the kings are inferred, or specifically mentioned, as being over Rome.

One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
Note please: the kings of the earth...committed adultery with her. Not the kings of Rome.
They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast".
Nothing that I read in all of that indicates that these kings will necessarily be over Rome.

And so is every NATO country.
So that point is not very important in the grand scheme.

Yes, but don't you see that your argument jumps from point to point without considering the totality of the descriptors that God's word uses. Yea, there are lots of nations jumping in to help this conflict going on, and if that were the only clue, I'd give your idea of some NATO nation being the woman on the Beast. But NATO nations don't seem to fit anything else in the descriptions. How does a NATO nation or nations, or NATO itself, relate to scarlet and purple? How does NATO or a NATO nation relate to seven hills? Is NATO or some NATO nation killing the saints of God? I actually thought NATO stood against any kind of religious killing. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but someone would have to show me some evidence to the contrary that NATO has had anything to do with sanctioning or actually killing the saints.

So for me, it's like the prophecies foretelling Jesus' birth. You have to find someone that matches ALL of the prophecies, not just one or two.

Right and yesterdays beer is today's hangover... not today's drunkenness.

I get it! You believe that God wouldn't still see anyone, who had over centuries past, murdered people, as a murderer today. Got it!

Yes... but in the mean time... if we are warned to flee Babylon... where do you go if you do not know who Babylon is?
God gives a command to "come out of her"... so how do we do that without knowing where or how to escape?
Would God give a command without it being possible for you or I to obey?

Hey, I'm all ears. Where do I need to flee from?

That fulfills ALL of the parameters laid out in the descriptors.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

But it's the beast that has the seven heads, not the whore.

HI Jethro Bodine

Tell him what he's won, Johnny!!! Which is why the beast is not the Vatican. The whore, is the Vatican that rides the Beast. As I understand 'what' these passages, may be alluding to.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Who is the Scarlet Beast?

BTW, as an earlier question: The beast is scarlet. It isn't wearing scarlet, as the whore is. It's color is scarlet. Scarlet, on its own as a descriptor in the Scriptures, generally refers to blood. So, the beast is a murderous, killer that is being ridden by the whore...who is also described as a murderous killer...of the saints.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Paul Timothy]

HI Paul Timothy

What else is there? AI machines? Are we going to finally live the life of John Carter? People groups and religious affiliations, which is just another people group in reality, is what the Scriptures are warning us of. Are you supposing that some great alien force is going to come from the distant galaxies to wipe us out? War of the Worlds, maybe?

Where in Revelation is the "warning to us" about people groups?
Just provide the references and we can discuss it further.

Not together that I'm aware of. I've heard of red light districts, but scarlet only came up in the scarlet letter, and of course all of our sins are as scarlet before God. I have heard of purple relating to royalty and I can't deny that the Vatican is about chock-a-bloc full of 'royalty'. I mean just look at the dressings of the Vatican Guard. Who wouldn't agree that they seem to think that they're protecting royalty? So, I'm good with the purple reflecting royalty and I find that it fits appropriately with the structure of the RCC.

When did I say "together"? So no one other than royalty can wear purple? And is purple for royalty exclusive to the RCC?

Well, as I've often allowed at this point. Go with what you know. Any that you have in mind, that wouldn't be a people group or religious group? I'm curious why you argue the 1st point, but then close with nearly adopting what I've said in your 3rd.

Your point is not clear.
When did I "argue the 1st point"? I asked a question or two.

Seems like a pretty tenuous stretch to me. The Whore is drunk on the blood of the saints. I don't really see that such a claim infers any time, but in God's sight, I don't think He's forgotten. Just as Jesus accused Israel of 'killing the prophets before him', he was covering a timespan of several centuries.

Ah but it is not about God's time frame or sight. It is how the Whore is acting and that would be very fitting aspect.
I just am saying that a case can be made against an ancient wrong being attributed to current states of affairs.

Yes, they are also, let me repeat ALSO seven kings. You'd likely have to go back and research the kingly nations that bowed down to Rome in the dark and middle ages. I don't hold to the idea that the kings are inferred, or specifically mentioned, as being over Rome.

But the Kings are part of the Beast... now you are saying that the Kings are external to the Beast.
The Kings are specifically mentioned as being a part of the Beast.
You apear to be the one removing them from their proper place.

One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”
Note please: the kings of the earth...committed adultery with her. Not the kings of Rome.

Right... also these kings are not called the heads of the Beast.

They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast".
Nothing that I read in all of that indicates that these kings will necessarily be over Rome.

You just mushed 2 separate passages together in an attempt to mislead.
Why would you do that?
Why did you not include the verse references... would that have made the attempt too obvious?

Yes, but don't you see that your argument jumps from point to point without considering the totality of the descriptors that God's word uses. Yea, there are lots of nations jumping in to help this conflict going on, and if that were the only clue, I'd give your idea of some NATO nation being the woman on the Beast. But NATO nations don't seem to fit anything else in the descriptions. How does a NATO nation or nations, or NATO itself, relate to scarlet and purple? How does NATO or a NATO nation relate to seven hills? Is NATO or some NATO nation killing the saints of God? I actually thought NATO stood against any kind of religious killing. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but someone would have to show me some evidence to the contrary that NATO has had anything to do with sanctioning or actually killing the saints.

If my argument jumps around it is only because I am following your lead.
I am just responding to you.
I am not saying NATO has anything to do with Revelation.
Your entire paragraph rant has nothing to do with what I said.
You said the Pope is taking action in Ukraine and I said so is NATO. That is the entirety of the matter.

So for me, it's like the prophecies foretelling Jesus' birth. You have to find someone that matches ALL of the prophecies, not just one or two.

Is that not the way prophecy works... If it is not bang on the money then it is not correct.

I get it! You believe that God wouldn't still see anyone, who had over centuries past, murdered people, as a murderer today. Got it!

Again it is not what God sees but how the Whore is acting.
Is the RCC acting as if it is reveling in the blood it spilled years ago?

Hey, I'm all ears. Where do I need to flee from?

That fulfills ALL of the parameters laid out in the descriptors.

God bless,
Ted

Sorry but your last request falls outside the area of the OP.
I will gladly discuss it further if you start a thread on that topic and I find the discussion interesting enough to engage with.