Questions for those who think the RCC is the Whore.

Just a few questions for those who think the Roman Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.

Who is the Scarlet Beast?
Who are the 7 kings?
Who are the 10 horns?

More questions will follow depending on answers.
Repost because of site issues.

 

[Paul Timothy]

Oh, you meant you were in a fog. No problem. Me taking your words literal again. Try rereading and tell me my conclusion, that you disagree with.

Re-read what?

 

[RBDERRICK]

Re-read what?

People do not make difference between the tribulation and wrath of man upon the righteous vs the tribulation and wrath of God upon the wicked.

The great tribulation at the end of these last days will begin with a final persecution and tribulation upon all saints on earth. After the first resurrection into the air with the Lord, then the great tribulation and wrath of God will be upon the earth.

And so, pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib are not accurate choices.

With the rapture, the tribulation of man upon the saints ends, and the tribulation of God upon the wicked begins.

The righteous are promised tribulation and wrath of the wicked, but are not appointed to tribulation and wrath of God upon the wicked.

 

[Paul Timothy]

People do not make difference between the tribulation and wrath of man upon the righteous vs the tribulation and wrath of God upon the wicked.

The great tribulation at the end of these last days will begin with a final persecution and tribulation upon all saints on earth. After the first resurrection into the air with the Lord, then the great tribulation and wrath of God will be upon the earth.

And so, pre-trib, mid-trib, and post-trib are not accurate choices.

With the rapture, the tribulation of man upon the saints ends, and the tribulation of God upon the wicked begins.

The righteous are promised tribulation and wrath of the wicked, but are not appointed to tribulation and wrath of God upon the wicked.

And what are you saying about this?
I don't see your point.

 

[RBDERRICK]

This whore and the beast she rides on is a Luciferian system that controls world wide economics, political, military, educational, environmental and false religious system.

I've already given the Scriptures that the great whore is that great city spiritually corrupt Jerusalem. I suppose we can call a city a system and society generated by the citizens thereof.

Jerusalem is the only city on earth, that is ever played the whore with God. All other cities and religions were pagan and nothing to God from the beginning.

Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

 

[for_his_glory]

I've already given the Scriptures that the great whore is that great city spiritually corrupt Jerusalem. I suppose we can call a city a system and society generated by the citizens thereof.

Jerusalem is the only city on earth, that is ever played the whore with God. All other cities and religions were pagan and nothing to God from the beginning.

Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

I will have to disagree, but do respect your view.

 

[Highway54]

We? So who is being warned to leave the UN to avoid the punishments that are coming on it?

So these seven kings... but you changed that to kingdoms... are part of the UN and were part of the League of Nations?

Are there not more than 10 nations that make up the UN?

We? So who is being warned to leave the UN to avoid the punishments that are coming on it?

Jehovah's witnesses. Christians have no part in it, since they are no part of the world, so we are not warned to get out of it, we were warned to get out of babylon the great.

So these seven kings... but you changed that to kingdoms... are part of the UN and were part of the League of Nations?

No sir.

Are there not more than 10 nations that make up the UN?

Yes sir.

 

[Paul Timothy]

Jehovah's witnesses. Christians have no part in it, since they are no part of the world, so we are not warned to get out of it, we were warned to get out of babylon the great.

There are no Christians in the UN?
Are you sure?

No sir.

So if the kings are not kingdoms how sre we talking about the UN? The UN is by definition about nations not rulers.

Yes sir.

So it there is more than 10 nations in the UN then they are not the 10 horns.

 

[Highway54]

Then who is the beast out of the land, the false prophet?

Since Revelation 13:11 says that this two-horned beast speaks as the Dragon does in blasphemies of God and his heavenly residence, and since it makes the “image of the wild beast” speak, the two-horned beast is here cast in the role of a prophet, not for Jehovah, of course. So it is a “false prophet.”

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Since Revelation 13:11 says that this two-horned beast speaks as the Dragon does in blasphemies of God and his heavenly residence, and since it makes the “image of the wild beast” speak, the two-horned beast is here cast in the role of a prophet, not for Jehovah, of course. So it is a “false prophet.”

Yes, Revelation 19:20 confirms that.

This beast out of the land, this false prophet, is a two headed monster, signifying it is ruled by two heads, you know, like a president and a vice-president.....hmm.

Which is why I believe, in the light of present circumstances, that the United States, conquered by communism (we're handing it right over to them) is the scarlet colored beast's enforcer in the world, causing all the peoples of the world to worship and serve a one world, global economic and political system, a.k.a., communism - the equalizer of all men, great and small, rich and poor (except the ruling elite, of course, lol).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I've already given the Scriptures that the great whore is that great city spiritually corrupt Jerusalem. I suppose we can call a city a system and society generated by the citizens thereof.

Jerusalem is the only city on earth, that is ever played the whore with God. All other cities and religions were pagan and nothing to God from the beginning.

Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

The problem I have with this interpretation is that Jerusalem is hardly a financial hub of the world that if destroyed brings the entire world economy of ancient Babylonian trade and it's luxuries and excesses to a halt. Never has been.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The beast rises up out of the sea, Rev 13, as the sea here is symbolic of people and nations as in a sea of humanity, Daniel Chapter 7:1-8; Revelation 17:15.

Yes, the beast arises out of the tumult and chaos of humanity. Exactly what communism was touted to have done. It sprang from the common man's displeasure of the chaotic system of riches and social class that oppressed them.

The appearance of the scarlet beast in the end time is different than the other kingdoms through which it appeared in human history. The last one is more fierce than those before it. Same beast, different manifestations of it in human history, the final one being very distinct from and cruel and oppressive than the ones before it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The beast out of the earth, Rev 13:11-18, is the revived Roman Empire (mystery Babylon, Rev 17:5) which causes man to take its mark. Daniel 7:25 and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, He will think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-12.

The biggest problem I have with this interpretation is John says the beast out of the sea is a king that "now is not", so it can't be the "one is" king at the time John wrote this - Rome. The Roman empire can't be both, "is" and "is not" at the same time.

9 The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

11The beast that was, and now is not, is an eighth king, who belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction. Revelation 17:9-11

The only way I can reconcile these conflicting ideas in that interpretation is the Roman empire, the fifth king, that "is" but also "is not" in John's day "is not" in the sense that it is not in the same form in John's day as it will be in the end time as the eighth king - a future form of the Roman empire, if that's what it is, that is going to be socialistic/communistic, not capitalistic, as Rome and all the world economies of history have been up to the appearance of communism in these last days.

 

[RBDERRICK]

The problem I have with this interpretation is that Jerusalem is hardly a financial hub of the world that if destroyed brings the entire world economy of ancient Babylonian trade and it's luxuries and excesses to a halt. Never has been.

The key words or 'is' at this time, and 'never has been'.

We are talking about prophecy. If someone wants to say that prophecy is now being fulfilled, then they're going to look for another city.

The first point remains, that Scripture of Revelation plainly makes that great city Babylon the one where our Lord was crucified. This is what you have not refuted, nor even addressed.

Your problem is you prefer private thinking and understanding over plain words of the Bible. At least until you show how the proof given is a false interpretation. I don't see how, since all I'm doing is repeating the words written.

 

[RBDERRICK]

And what are you saying about this?
I don't see your point.

Ok. Too wordy.

The greatest tribulation on earth at the Lord's return is of two kinds. First there will be great tribulation of saints by persecutors. Then at His return, there will be great tribulation of persecutors by the Lord.

The rapture divides the two different great tribulations on earth.

 

[Paul Timothy]

Ok. Too wordy.

The greatest tribulation on earth at the Lord's return is of two kinds. First there will be great tribulation of saints by persecutors. Then at His return, there will be great tribulation of persecutors by the Lord.

The rapture divides the two different great tribulations on earth.

I disagree but fine.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I disagree but fine.

This is probably the best response I've seen from you. You don't change what I say into something else, nor mock it, nor make accusations of corrupting God's word. Well done.

You are simply someone that either agrees or disagrees with others, and that's it. There's no reasons why nor corrections to be made.

You believe what you believe, and that's all that matters to you.

And so, when you do disagree again, I'll not bother to try and find out why and perhaps be honestly corrected for my own benefit.

Also, if you disagree, just leave it at that, and don't bother saying so, because it just wastes time looking at your 'reply'.

If you do ever agree with me or anyone else, then I'd be glad to see you add anything to it for the good.

 

[Paul Timothy]

This is probably the best response I've seen from you. You don't change what I say into something else, nor mock it, nor make accusations of corrupting God's word. Well done.

I would only do that if the situation called for it.

You are simply someone that either agrees or disagrees with others, and that's it. There's no reasons why nor corrections to be made.

I disagree with everyone. But I have reasons for why I do.

You believe what you believe, and that's all that matters to you.

NO... I have been looking for someone to tell me I am wrong or crazy for 3 years now.

And so, when you do disagree again, I'll not bother to try and find out why and perhaps be honestly corrected for my own benefit.

And that is why not one person has found out what I believe. When you get confronted with someone who disagrees with you do you honestly try to see things from their perspective, or would you prefer to prove yourself correct?

Also, if you disagree, just leave it at that, and don't bother saying so, because it just wastes time looking at your 'reply'.

If your theology is weak or insufficient would you not like to know that?

If you do ever agree with me or anyone else, then I'd be glad to see you add anything to it for the good.

If I think your eschatology is faulty... why would I agree with you. But if you make a valid point... I have agreed many times with many people when good points are made. And fought like a mad-man with the same people when they have gone off the rails.

That is just me being honest with myself and others.

 

[for_his_glory]

The biggest problem I have with this interpretation is John says the beast out of the sea is a king that "now is not", so it can't be the "one is" king at the time John wrote this - Rome. The Roman empire can't be both, "is" and "is not" at the same time.

9 The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

11The beast that was, and now is not, is an eighth king, who belongs to the other seven and is going into destruction. Revelation 17:9-11

The only way I can reconcile these conflicting ideas in that interpretation is the Roman empire, the fifth king, that "is" but also "is not" in John's day "is not" in the sense that it is not in the same form in John's day as it will be in the end time as the eighth king - a future form of the Roman empire, if that's what it is, that is going to be socialistic/communistic, not capitalistic, as Rome and all the world economies of history have been up to the appearance of communism in these last days.

Sorry about the length, but this is my understanding.

And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is, Rev 17:7-8.

And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. Rev 17:9-11.

The seven mountains are not literal mountains, but symbolic of present day Iraq, Iran, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Rome being part of Satan’s ruling power found in the four nations of the Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. John would have known of all these nations throughout history and surely knew the Roman Empire in his lifetime.

The five fallen kingdoms that have always persecuted Gods people before John's lifetime were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. John could only know that of the Roman Empire in his life time as Israel was in subjection to Rome. Before John’s time Israel was in subjection to Greece, Persia and Babylon and in its earlier history was in slavery to Assyria and in its beginning was in slavery to Egypt.

One is: is that of the Roman Papal government up till 1798 when it received it deadly wound when General Berthier and Napoleon had abolished the papal government back in 1798 and established a secular one.

And the other not yet come and when he cometh, he must continue a short space is the reestablished Roman Catholic Church given back in 1929 when the Lateran Treaty had been signed between the Roman Catholic Church and Mussolini’s fascist Italian government. The treaty was signed by Benito Mussolini on behalf of King Victor Emmanuel III and by Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Gasparri for Pope Pius XI. The Lateran Treaty and the Concordat unilaterally established the independent State of the Vatican City on February 11, 1929 and granted Roman Catholicism special status in Italy.

The beast that was: was Pope Pius VI (25 December 1717 – 29 August 1799) born Count Giovanni Angelo Braschi reigned as Pope from 15 February 1775 to his death in 1799. There were no other Popes until 1929 when Pope Pius XI ruled over Vatican City as he exercised principal legislative, executive and judicial power as all the other Popes have since that time.

There have been eight Popes starting with Pope Pius XI up to the seventh and eight Pope being Pope Francis. The reason Pope Francis is the seventh and eight is that Pope Benedict XVI being the seventh king (Pope) resigned. A new Pope is not selected until the former one dies.

The beast out of the earth that Satan gives power to, Rev 13, is this seventh and eight king (Pope) that will go into perdition causing a falling away before the return of Christ, 2Thessalonians 2:2, 3, as he sits on the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north taking his seat on the same mount that use to be the Temple of God as he deceives the nations claiming to be like God, Isaiah 14:12-14.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

The ten horns are ten kings who have not yet received their kingdoms as the Vatican's New World Order Headquarters and the United Nations Organization, One Security Council that claims authority over the world are waiting for ten permanent members. In 2009 the UNO divided the world into ten economic regions and each one will have a Jesuit Provincial set over them, but their end will come with the glory of the Lord striking them down when He returns with us His army.
Ten Kingdoms of a One World Government:
Kingdom 1: Canada, Mexico and the United States of America
Kingdom 2: European Union – Western Europe
Kingdom 3: Japan
Kingdom 4: Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Israel and Pacific Islands
Kingdom 5: Eastern Europe
Kingdom 6: Latin America, Central and South America
Kingdom 7: North Africa and the Middle East
Kingdom 8: Central Africa
Kingdom 9: South and Southeast Asia
Kingdom 10: Central Asia

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, the beast arises out of the tumult and chaos of humanity. Exactly what communism was touted to have done. It sprang from the common man's displeasure of the chaotic system of riches and social class that oppressed them.

The appearance of the scarlet beast in the end time is different than the other kingdoms through which it appeared in human history. The last one is more fierce than those before it. Same beast, different manifestations of it in human history, the final one being very distinct from and cruel and oppressive than the ones before it.

I would say the last beast that comes up out of the sea and gives it's power to the beast out of the earth, Rev 13, being more fierce than all the others is because at that time Satan is finally thrown down from heaven to earth, Rev 12, with all vengeance against those who are God's and Christ own by faith. In my understanding this beast is a Luciferian system that controls world wide economics, political, military, educational, environmental and false religious system. This beast system that Satan works through gives its power to the beast out of the earth as the beast out of the earth appears as the Lamb of God, but is a false Christ being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.

 

[for_his_glory]

Ok. Too wordy.

The greatest tribulation on earth at the Lord's return is of two kinds. First there will be great tribulation of saints by persecutors. Then at His return, there will be great tribulation of persecutors by the Lord.

The rapture divides the two different great tribulations on earth.

Could you please share the scriptures for this, thank you.