Questions for those who think the RCC is the Whore.

Just a few questions for those who think the Roman Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.

Who is the Scarlet Beast?
Who are the 7 kings?
Who are the 10 horns?

More questions will follow depending on answers.
Repost because of site issues.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yes... but in the mean time... if we are warned to flee Babylon... where do you go if you do not know who Babylon is?
God gives a command to "come out of her"... so how do we do that without knowing where or how to escape?
Would God give a command without it being possible for you or I to obey?

I agree. Whether it's actually recognized by God's people as the whore of Revelation or not, God has issued the command to come out of her and not be destroyed with her. Warnings like these, perhaps:

15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world. 17The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains forever. 1 John 2:15-17


4You adulteresses!b Do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore, whoever chooses to be a friend of the world renders himselfc an enemy of God.

7Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. James 4:4-8


5Put to death, therefore, the components of your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires, and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience.b 7When you lived among them, you also used to walk in these ways. 8But now you must put aside all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Colossians 3:5-8


6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6

 

[Jethro Bodine]

In my understanding this beast is a Luciferian system that controls world wide economics, political, military, educational, environmental and false religious system.

Yep.
That's the very description of socialism/communism, the system of the globalists.

The Illuminati is not a conspiracy theory anymore. They themselves say they are Luciferians, thus the name Illuminati. Their 'religion' is the religion of Lucifer, through whom they become the truly enlightened ones.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But the hills(mountains) are kings... so where do seven kings exist in the timeline of Rome.
If we are saying the mountains are the physical mountains... that would indicate that the kings are kings of Rome.

I agree. This is where I see the 'Rome' theory break down. In that theory the seven mountains are literally seven mountains (or hills) and fails to make the connection to Revelation saying they are kings, and more importantly the seven kings of the scarlet beast. Only one of which we can confidently identify as the Roman empire.

The only thing the whore has to do with the seven mountains of human history is that she has sat on them for all of human history. Until the end when an eighth king, who belongs to the seven (a revived head of the seven?), destroys her.

 

[Paul Timothy]

I agree. This is where I see the 'Rome' theory break down. In that theory the seven mountains are literally seven mountains (or hills) and fails to make the connection to Revelation saying they are kings, and more importantly the seven kings of the scarlet beast. Only one of which we can confidently identify as the Roman empire.

The only thing the whore has to do with the seven mountains of human history is that she has sat on them for all of human history. Until the end when an eighth king, who belongs to the seven (a revived head of the seven?), destroys her.

You are falling for their logic traps.
The text says kings... not kingdoms.
The Beast could be a single nation.
Five kings are dead... one is reigning during the vision... one will come after the destruction of Babylon and the nation itself is considered to be a king in it's own right.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

One is: is that of the Roman Papal government up till 1798

I hope I'm following this correctly, but there was no Roman Papal government in John's day at the close of the Apostolic period of the church.

 

[Highway54]

There are no Christians in the UN?
Are you sure?

So if the kings are not kingdoms how sre we talking about the UN? The UN is by definition about nations not rulers.

So it there is more than 10 nations in the UN then they are not the 10 horns.

There are no Christians in the UN?
Are you sure?

Yes, Christians are followers of Christ, therefore they are no part of the world. We promote God's Kingdom as the only hope for mankind.

So it there is more than 10 nations in the UN then they are not the 10 horns.

10 signifies completeness, majesty. Neither the beast, nor it's horns are literal.

 

[Highway54]

Yes, Revelation 19:20 confirms that.

This beast out of the land, this false prophet, is a two headed monster, signifying it is ruled by two heads, you know, like a president and a vice-president.....hmm.

Which is why I believe, in the light of present circumstances, that the United States, conquered by communism (we're handing it right over to them) is the scarlet colored beast's enforcer in the world, causing all the peoples of the world to worship and serve a one world, global economic and political system, a.k.a., communism - the equalizer of all men, great and small, rich and poor (except the ruling elite, of course, lol).

I look forward to the Kingdom coming Jethro, then there will be no more of satan's kingdoms left Dan 2:44

 

[Paul Timothy]

Yes, Christians are followers of Christ, therefore they are no part of the world. We promote God's Kingdom as the only hope for mankind.

But that was not the question.

10 signifies completeness, majesty. Neither the beast, nor it's horns are literal.

So you are calling John a liar.
Where is there any of that on Revelation?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The beast that was: was Pope Pius VI (25 December 1717 – 29 August 1799) born Count Giovanni Angelo Braschi reigned as Pope from 15 February 1775 to his death in 1799. There were no other Popes until 1929 when Pope Pius XI ruled over Vatican City as he exercised principal legislative, executive and judicial power as all the other Popes have since that time.

There have been eight Popes starting with Pope Pius XI up to the seventh and eight Pope being Pope Francis. The reason Pope Francis is the seventh and eight is that Pope Benedict XVI being the seventh king (Pope) resigned. A new Pope is not selected until the former one dies.

I'm just not feeling this for several reasons. For one, I don't like the picking of the 7th and 8th kings in the arbitrary fashion that they are. And the assumption is absurd that Popes and the Catholic church were somehow rulers over the earth as significant as Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander the Great, and the Pharaohs of Egypt! And I just don't ever see the world marveling over a Pope, lol. Right now the Catholic leadership is salt that has lost it's saltiness that men trample on and which can not be made salty again. It would indeed take a miracle for them to gain the respect of the world again. I mean, for what little respect they ever really had. I just don't see them as world players-never have been. And that kind of destroys the idea of the religion itself being the whore since the Catholic religion in no way shape or form sat on the empires and kingdoms and nations of the ancient world. It's a modern day invention, relatively speaking. Sorry, just not feeling it. :neutral

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why should they relate to people groups or religious affiliations?
Is not purple and scarlet related to wealth and promiscuity?
So that would relate to rich and immoral... and there are quite a few of those groups around.

Which is why I see the whore as a system, not a group of people. A system that throughout history kings and merchants and the great people of the earth have committed adultery with in their lust for riches and their love of money, the god of this age with whom all nations and people are subject to and in bed with. An economic system, represented in a particular city at any one time in human history, that will be destroyed by the final appearance of the devil in a human government, and replaced with a very different economic system, a brutal and cruel system unlike any ever seen in the world that demands worship unfamiliar to humans and different from that of our ancestors.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm just not feeling this for several reasons. For one, I don't like the picking of the 7th and 8th kings in the arbitrary fashion that they are. And the assumption is absurd that Popes and the Catholic church were somehow rulers over the earth as significant as Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander the Great, and the Pharaohs of Egypt! And I just don't ever see the world marveling over a Pope, lol. Right now the Catholic leadership is salt that has lost it's saltiness that men trample on and which can not be made salty again. It would indeed take a miracle for them to gain the respect of the world again. I mean, for what little respect they ever really had. I just don't see them as world players-never have been. And that kind of destroys the idea of the religion itself being the whore since the Catholic religion in no way shape or form sat on the empires and kingdoms and nations of the ancient world. It's a modern day invention, relatively speaking. Sorry, just not feeling it. :neutral

It's not the Catholic religion itself, but that of a revived 1929 Roman Empire that for now works in secret, but will come to fruition when the son of perdition takes it literal seat in Jerusalem in the end of days for 3 1/2 years causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death.

Like I said this is only my understanding as there are many of them.

 

[for_his_glory]

I hope I'm following this correctly, but there was no Roman Papal government in John's day at the close of the Apostolic period of the church.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was divided into an eastern half and a western half in 285 CE by Emperor Diocletian. It was the Emperor Constantine in 330CE who moved the capital of the Roman Empire to Byzantium (Constantinople) in the Eastern Empire. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome in Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yep.
That's the very description of socialism/communism, the system of the globalists.

The Illuminati is not a conspiracy theory anymore. They themselves say they are Luciferians, thus the name Illuminati. Their 'religion' is the religion of Lucifer, through whom they become the truly enlightened ones.

The illuminati is just a small part of the bigger picture as even they are controlled by the Jesuits. The Jesuit Order is not a religious order, but in its own right a self governed military order as was the old Babylonian Roman Empire. They disguise themselves as a religious order under the heading of Roman Catholicism that call themselves Christians, but are actually a Luciferian Roman Catholic system who sends their blinded to truth missionaries out into the world causing a great falling away from the true God of all creation as they preach a different gospel, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4. Here is a list of past and present organizations and people you can research who have been and still are controlled by Jesuit Roman dictatorship and their secret plot of world domination as they annihilate anyone who will not conform and bow down to their false gods.

This is a partial list of what the Jesuit Militant Priesthood has controlled from their beginning in 1540: Inquisition, Crusaders, Knights Templar, Illuminati, high level Freemasonry, Jesuit infiltration of the English colonies on the North American continent, Banksters, Vatican Bank, Agenda 21 and 2030, World Trade Organization, Bilderbergers Club, Rothschild’s, Rockerfellows, Constantine, Hitler, Mussolini, Roman Catholic Ecumenical Assemblies (RCEA) and The Global Eucharistic Community (GEC).

The Jesuits have always secretly controlled the government of every nation from the time of Ignatius Loyola and his military background as the Pope gave approval for the Society of Jesus in 1540.​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's not the Catholic religion itself, but that of a revived 1929 Roman Empire that for now works in secret, but will come to fruition when the son of perdition takes it literal seat in Jerusalem in the end of days for 3 1/2 years causing all to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death.

Like I said this is only my understanding as there are many of them.

I'm trying to follow this. I really am. It's interesting. But how does the whore play into all this? You're saying the beast out of the sea, what we call the anti-Christ, is a Roman Catholic empire of sorts, so who/what is the whore?

 

[for_his_glory]

Jethro Bodine I will do this in parts as it's long, but take your time going through it.

Part 1
Rev 17:1-6

John is once more caught up in the Spirit as this angel shows him the future judgment of Mystery Babylon who is the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. Mystery Babylon is described first as a great whore that sits on many waters. She is a mystery to John when the vision was given to him, but now made very clear since the sixteenth century Reformation.

The woman is arrayed in purple and scarlet colors. These are the main colors of the Roman Catholic Church. The woman is the city of Rome known as Vatican City and the scarlet beast is the spiritual and worldly empire it controls being that of the Roman Catholic Church and all its believers through out the nations.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire: (Iraq), Medo - Persian Empire: (Iran), Grecian Empire: (Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt), Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (English), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

The woman was drunk with power the beast (Satan) gave her as she made martyrs of the saints and prophets of God as their blood was shed for their faith in Christ Jesus as they refused to denounce Christ in order to take the mark of this beast and bow down to this one world political, economic, educational and religious system.

 

[for_his_glory]

Part 2
Rev 17:7-18

The mystery of the woman is now revealed to John as being the Babylonian Empire (was, and is not). The same Empire that in time became the Roman Empire that has captured John and sent him to the isle of Patmos as a prisoner for preaching the word of God to the seven Churches in Asia. The same Empire that have always persecuted, even to death, the saints, the Prophets, the Apostles and even Christ.

The beast, being Satan, has always controlled the seven heads and ten nations as he works through those to kill, steal and destroy that which is God’s. We read back in Chapter 13 about the beast out of the sea and the beast out of the earth and who the son of perdition is as being Satan who works through the Luciferians religious system with their Jesuit Militant Priesthood and their false prophet being the Pontifex Maximus.

The beast that was and is not and yet is had its beginning with Nimrod and continuing with all the imperial kings, pharaohs and Roman Caesars that claimed to be priest/god/kings and held the official office and title of Pontifex Maximus who commands worship from their subjects.

The Pope, being the end of days son of perdition revealed, claims to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) directly from Babylon. Another title is Vicarius Filii Dei meaning in the place of God as he calls himself the Holy Father and the only one who can forgive sin.

The seven mountains are not literal mountains, but symbolic of present day Iraq, Iran, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Rome being part of Satan’s ruling power found in the four nations of the Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. John would have known of all these nations throughout history and surely knew the Roman Empire in his lifetime.

The five fallen kingdoms that have always persecuted Gods people before John's lifetime were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. John could only know that of the Roman Empire in his life time as Israel was in subjection to Rome. Before John’s time Israel was in subjection to Greece, Persia and Babylon and in its earlier history was in slavery to Assyria and in its beginning was in slavery to Egypt.

One is: is that of the Roman Papal government up till 1798 when it received it deadly wound when General Berthier and Napoleon had abolished the papal government back in 1798 and established a secular one.

And the other not yet come and when he cometh, he must continue a short space is the reestablished Roman Catholic Church given back in 1929 when the Lateran Treaty had been signed between the Roman Catholic Church and Mussolini’s fascist Italian government. The treaty was signed by Benito Mussolini on behalf of King Victor Emmanuel III and by Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Gasparri for Pope Pius XI. The Lateran Treaty and the Concordat unilaterally established the independent State of the Vatican City on February 11, 1929 and granted Roman Catholicism special status in Italy.

The beast that was: was Pope Pius VI (25 December 1717 – 29 August 1799) born Count Giovanni Angelo Braschi reigned as Pope from 15 February 1775 to his death in 1799. There were no other Popes until 1929 when Pope Pius XI ruled over Vatican City as he exercised principal legislative, executive and judicial power as all the other Popes have since that time.

There have been eight Popes starting with Pope Pius XI up to the seventh and eight Pope being Pope Francis. The reason Pope Francis is the seventh and eight is that Pope Benedict XVI being the seventh king (Pope) resigned. A new Pope is not selected until the former one dies.

The beast out of the earth that Satan gives power to, Rev 13, is this seventh and eight king (Pope) that will go into perdition causing a falling away before the return of Christ, 2Thessalonians 2:2, 3, as he sits on the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north taking his seat on the same mount that use to be the Temple of God as he deceives the nations claiming to be like God, Isaiah 14:12-14.

The seven mountains are not literal mountains, but symbolic of present day Iraq, Iran, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Rome being part of Satan’s ruling power found in the four nations of the Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. John would have known of all these nations throughout history and surely knew the Roman Empire in his lifetime.

The five fallen kingdoms that have always persecuted Gods people before John's lifetime were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. John could only know that of the Roman Empire in his life time as Israel was in subjection to Rome. Before John’s time Israel was in subjection to Greece, Persia and Babylon and in its earlier history was in slavery to Assyria and in its beginning was in slavery to Egypt.

One is: is that of the Roman Papal government up till 1798 when it received it deadly wound when General Berthier and Napoleon had abolished the papal government back in 1798 and established a secular one.

And the other not yet come and when he cometh, he must continue a short space is the reestablished Roman Catholic Church given back in 1929 when the Lateran Treaty had been signed between the Roman Catholic Church and Mussolini’s fascist Italian government. The treaty was signed by Benito Mussolini on behalf of King Victor Emmanuel III and by Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Gasparri for Pope Pius XI. The Lateran Treaty and the Concordat unilaterally established the independent State of the Vatican City on February 11, 1929 and granted Roman Catholicism special status in Italy.

The beast that was: was Pope Pius VI (25 December 1717 – 29 August 1799) born Count Giovanni Angelo Braschi reigned as Pope from 15 February 1775 to his death in 1799. There were no other Popes until 1929 when Pope Pius XI ruled over Vatican City as he exercised principal legislative, executive and judicial power as all the other Popes have since that time.

There have been eight Popes starting with Pope Pius XI up to the seventh and eight Pope being Pope Francis. The reason Pope Francis is the seventh and eight is that Pope Benedict XVI being the seventh king (Pope) resigned. A new Pope is not selected until the former one dies.

The beast out of the earth that Satan gives power to, Rev 13, is this seventh and eight king (Pope) that will go into perdition causing a falling away before the return of Christ, 2Thessalonians 2:2, 3, as he sits on the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north taking his seat on the same mount that use to be the Temple of God as he deceives the nations claiming to be like God, Isaiah 14:12-14.

The ten horns are ten kings who have not yet received their kingdoms as the Vatican's New World Order Headquarters and the United Nations Organization, One Security Council that claims authority over the world are waiting for ten permanent members. In 2009 the UNO divided the world into ten economic regions and each one will have a Jesuit Provincial set over them, but their end will come with the glory of the Lord striking them down when He returns with us His army.

 

[Highway54]

But that was not the question.

So you are calling John a liar.
Where is there any of that on Revelation?

First verse sir.

 

[Paul Timothy]

First verse sir.

Are you referring to the word "signified" in Rev 1:1?
That would not mean that the book is figurative.
The word "signified" can be replaced with the phrase 'to make known" without changing anything.
So if this is your basis for your arguments... you have built your argument with no foundation on quicksand.

 

[RBDERRICK]

NO... I have been looking for someone to tell me I am wrong or crazy for 3 years now.

When it comes to God's word and the truth of all things, it's not about who's right or wrong, but only about what God's says. It's not a game of competition between the ideas and imaginations of men.

We are all free to think whatever we want, but only God's words are the truth. If it's not the truth we're seeking and teaching, but only our way of thinking, then it's a waste of time arguing about it. People are free to think as they wish, and I don't argue with them, because I don't care. But if they are saying it is the truth of God, then that's different.

The reason some people resent me is because I don't care what you think, but only what thus saith the Lord. That's because I don't care what I think myself, if God's words say otherwise.

We must change our thinking to agree with Scripture. Many sincere Christians want it the other way around at times. They want God's word to fit their own thinking about doctrine and prophecy of God, because they love their own minds on certain matters more than the truth.

The test is when someone else quotes a verse of the Bible that plainly says other than what we believe, and instead of being corrected and change our way of thinking, we either dismiss the Bible, or try to argue around it.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

When you get confronted with someone who disagrees with you do you honestly try to see things from their perspective, or would you prefer to prove yourself correct?

This is how your whole approach is wrong. I'm not here to argue 'perspectives', but only the truth of God in Scripture. If someone says something I don't agree with, then all I want to see is their Biblic argument for it. All I need is the Scripture quoted to believe something, as well as to be corrected by it.

Our 'perspectives' are our own, and they may be fine or not, but only God's written words are the truth to believe, hold to, and do. It's all about being justified with God, not with ourselves and one another.

If your theology is weak or insufficient would you not like to know that?

Always. Just show the Scriptures proving it. What you think about my theology doesn't matter, because it's not my theology I want to teach, but God's word. It's His doctrine and prophecy that matters, not my own.

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

That's why Jesus was so hated by the fervent Jews, because He only taught God's word and continually went to what is written, while the zealous leaders cared more about what is not actually written but is only their own traditions and rules.

And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Saul of Tarsus was one of the most zealous of them:

And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Until he met Jesus personally, and then he became zealous in the right way, by teaching only the words of God the Father.

That's when Paul the apostle ceased teaching from Jewish Midrash and only taught things of God from Scripture of the prophets.

Midrash as a Jewish mode of interpretation that not only engages the words of the text, behind the text, and beyond the text, but also focuses on each letter, and the words left unsaid by each line". The term is also used of a rabbinic work that interprets Scripture in that manner.

I.e. they add their own opinions and rules to Scripture, and then teach that for Scripture itself. Peter condemns that as teaching private interpretation of the Bible as being the Bible itself.

Teaching the Bible is not really hard at all. It's really just repeating words of the Bible in a sensible way. Confusion only enters when we are really just teaching what we think the Bible says, but don't have the simple words of the Bible to prove it's true.

If I think your eschatology is faulty... why would I agree with you.

Once again, it's not what we think, but what says God in His Scriptures. It's not my theology and eschatology I'm looking for nor care about. Neither your's.

But if you make a valid point... I have agreed many times with many people when good points are made.

Which is fine, but if it's not God's words we are agreeing with, then it's just more and more philosophy and theology of man.

I left off caring about people's ideas and imagination, when I ceased to care about my own, and only want to know what is actually true. Only God's words can be fully trusted as true.

But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth.

That is just me being honest with myself and others.

I know you are, which is why I want to correct your way of thinking about the truth of God. I know you are sincere and zealous, but not disciplined in the doctrine and prophecy of God, that is only surely known by the words written in the Book.

They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them. But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing.

You see here how everything I say to you is merely repetition of Scripture, and not just a philosophic or theological argument between us by our own opinions and ideas.

Therefore, so long as I am offering an accurate reading of Scripture, then it is not me you argue with, but God and His word. You're manner at times is to assume others are arguing with God, when they disagree with you. That is shown by how you offer no Bible to prove someone's teaching is false, or you simply bypass what they are teaching altogether, and just say 'nah-ah'.

 

[Paul Timothy]

When it comes to God's word and the truth of all things, it's not about who's right or wrong, but only about what God's says. It's not a game of competition between the ideas and imaginations of men.

We are all free to think whatever we want, but only God's words are the truth. If it's not the truth we're seeking and teaching, but only our way of thinking, then it's a waste of time arguing about it. People are free to think as they wish, and I don't argue with them, because I don't care. But if they are saying it is the truth of God, then that's different.

The reason some people resent me is because I don't care what you think, but only what thus saith the Lord. That's because I don't care what I think myself, if God's words say otherwise.

We must change our thinking to agree with Scripture. Many sincere Christians want it the other way around at times. They want God's word to fit their own thinking about doctrine and prophecy of God, because they love their own minds on certain matters more than the truth.

The test is when someone else quotes a verse of the Bible that plainly says other than what we believe, and instead of being corrected and change our way of thinking, we either dismiss the Bible, or try to argue around it.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


This is how your whole approach is wrong. I'm not here to argue 'perspectives', but only the truth of God in Scripture. If someone says something I don't agree with, then all I want to see is their Biblic argument for it. All I need is the Scripture quoted to believe something, as well as to be corrected by it.

Our 'perspectives' are our own, and they may be fine or not, but only God's written words are the truth to believe, hold to, and do. It's all about being justified with God, not with ourselves and one another.



Always. Just show the Scriptures proving it. What you think about my theology doesn't matter, because it's not my theology I want to teach, but God's word. It's His doctrine and prophecy that matters, not my own.

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

That's why Jesus was so hated by the fervent Jews, because He only taught God's word and continually went to what is written, while the zealous leaders cared more about what is not actually written but is only their own traditions and rules.

And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Saul of Tarsus was one of the most zealous of them:

And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Until he met Jesus personally, and then he became zealous in the right way, by teaching only the words of God the Father.

That's when Paul the apostle ceased teaching from Jewish Midrash and only taught things of God from Scripture of the prophets.

Midrash as a Jewish mode of interpretation that not only engages the words of the text, behind the text, and beyond the text, but also focuses on each letter, and the words left unsaid by each line". The term is also used of a rabbinic work that interprets Scripture in that manner.

I.e. they add their own opinions and rules to Scripture, and then teach that for Scripture itself. Peter condemns that as teaching private interpretation of the Bible as being the Bible itself.

Teaching the Bible is not really hard at all. It's really just repeating words of the Bible in a sensible way. Confusion only enters when we are really just teaching what we think the Bible says, but don't have the simple words of the Bible to prove it's true.




Once again, it's not what we think, but what says God in His Scriptures. It's not my theology and eschatology I'm looking for nor care about. Neither your's.


Which is fine, but if it's not God's words we are agreeing with, then it's just more and more philosophy and theology of man.

I left off caring about people's ideas and imagination, when I ceased to care about my own, and only want to know what is actually true. Only God's words can be fully trusted as true.

But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth.


I know you are, which is why I want to correct your way of thinking about the truth of God. I know you are sincere and zealous, but not disciplined in the doctrine and prophecy of God, that is only surely known by the words written in the Book.

They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them. But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing.

You see here how everything I say to you is merely repetition of Scripture, and not just a philosophic or theological argument between us by our own opinions and ideas.

Therefore, so long as I am offering an accurate reading of Scripture, then it is not me you argue with, but God and His word. You're manner at times is to assume others are arguing with God, when they disagree with you. That is shown by how you offer no Bible to prove someone's teaching is false, or you simply bypass what they are teaching altogether, and just say 'nah-ah'.

You write too much for me to read.
But your last paragraph is the one I will respond to.
"Therefore, so long as I am offering an accurate reading of Scripture..." this is the problem I see with your approach.
You are saying it is the Scripture you are presenting... but I show you how the Scripture disagrees with your statements, and you say that although I offer 18 Biblical references against your theory you say I don't use Scripture.

This is starting to look like you are trolling and if you don't engage with the 18 points I raised... you will be put on the "do not disturb" list.

I thought you were open to honest debate and now you refuse to engage with the challenge you offered.