Rapture Theory

[Kathi]

I said it is a rhetorical question for you and only if you wanted to answer.
Other people read all the posts.
I will no longer address any of your posts unless they are directed to me. Fair enough?

Any of my posts?Isn't that kind of over reacting?

 

[n2thelight]

I do agree with you that there is no soul sleep, but what do you believe the soul is.

First,I don't believe anyone will rise physically from the grave,I think they rise at death......As for the soul,Paul says we have two bodies,the soul is what returns to the Father,while the flesh turns back to dust as it was,never to be used again......

I Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?"

I Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

There is a natural body, which is your flesh body, and there is also a spiritual or soul body. The two are different and when the natural body, or flesh body dies the spiritual body is "raised", or in the Greek text "egiro, awakened, become active from its death". You have two bodies, one natural body contains your spiritual body, and that spiritual body is awakened to a new life, when the flesh or natural body dies and releases your soul. Your spirit and your soul are together, for the spirit is your "self", "the intellect of your soul" which houses your spirit within you.

Your spirit never leaves your soul, even at the death of your flesh body. Satan does not have any power over your spiritual body, but only your flesh body. Man and Satan can tare this flesh body to peaces and cause you to do all sorts of things, but no-one can damage your soul, not man, not Satan nor the angels. God is the only one that can destroy the soul and that comes at the end of the Millennium age, following judgment. However through deception Satan can cause you to sin against God, and thus be in trouble before the Almighty God. But that is why we have repentance in the name of Jesus to become right-standing before the Father again.
It just can't be made any clearer than Paul has made it here. You have two bodies, the flesh and the spiritual bodies. When the flesh body dies, then the spiritual body is awakened and come alive within itself. It starts to live a life without the baggage of the flesh body confining it to the limits of the flesh.


Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then [at death] shall the dust [flesh body] return to the earth as it was: and the spirit [spiritual body] shall return [instantly] to God [Father] Who gave it."

 

[agua.]

Oh wait a minute, DUH....
You are saying that God has a dead person's breath/life somewhere. He will bring that back with Him when He raises the dead and the living?

Kinda reminds me of the restoration of Israel.

Eze 37:5-6 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live: (6) And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

 

[JLB]

Where does the Bible say, "The" great tribulation?



There it is again, "the" great tribulation?

14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Revelation 7:14

This would be the tribulation that Jesus said would be such as has not been, nor will ever be!

Which is unique, and a one of a kind Tribulation that when it occurs there will never have been anything like it, nor will there ever be anything like it again.

Therefore it is called The Great Tribulation.

JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

Yet Jesus doesn't call it 'The Great Tribulation' in Matt 24:21 , and the KJV doesn't even call it that in Rev 7:14

Much of what we think we know about a future rapture and tribulation comes out of preconceptions.

 

[Deborah13]

JLB

YLT - Young's Literal Translation
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

However, NASB does have 'the' so I will concede that it is possible that the 'the' should be there in Rev.

So why do you see this tribulation as being worse then any thing that happened/happens before or after?
I see that what happened in 70AD as so horrendous that even the Holocaust does not compare to it.

 

[JLB]

JLB

YLT - Young's Literal Translation
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

However, NASB does have 'the' so I will conceited that it is possible that the 'the' should be there in Rev.

So why do you see this tribulation as being worse then any thing that happened/happens before or after?
I see that what happened in 70AD as so horrendous that even the Holocaust does not compare to it.

The isolated events of 70 AD and the holocaust will pale in comparison to a world wide event that will take the life of 3 Billion people.

Men's heart failing them for fear of what is coming upon the earth.

The Temple and city of Jerusalem were already destroyed once before the events of 70 AD.

I frankly don't see how you or anyone else could possibly miss these irrefutable facts.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Yet Jesus doesn't call it 'The Great Tribulation' in Matt 24:21 , and the KJV doesn't even call it that in Rev 7:14

Much of what we think we know about a future rapture and tribulation comes out of preconceptions.

The Rapture takes place at His Coming.

The great tribulation that Jesus refers to, as well as the great tribulation that revelation refers to will be such as has not been nor will ever be.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Oh wait a minute, DUH....
You are saying that God has a dead person's breath/life somewhere. He will bring that back with Him when He raises the dead and the living?

I am going to answer you and onelove at the same time.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Breath = living soul

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Can not kill the soul for that is the very breath that goes back to God when we die. Our soul can never die and is preserved until Gods final judgment at the end of time. It is that breath of God brethed into us that made a living soul. Breath = living soul.

No one has ever entered the third Heaven where God sits on His throne. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits (souls) of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Psalms 2:4.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (soul) shall return unto God who gave it.
Ruach, the Hebrew word for spirit here, means "breath" or "wind" as well as "spirit".

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Luke 24:33-53 We see that Jesus had flesh and bone and did eat with the Disciples, but now the flesh was glorified. Just as we will see Jesus the way he desended into Heaven is the same way we to will be resurrected from the grave if we are not alive when Christ returns which gives the saying in 1Corinthians 15:55 it's meaning. This body will have put on immortality and become an incorruptable body that also eats and drinks being flesh and bone, but now being a sinless glorified body given by the Father.
1Corinthians 15 we are resurrected into a Spiritual body that scripture does not give detail what it will look like, but will be like that of Christ glorified body that eats and drinks as when he came and showed himself to the Disciples he told them to touch him and also sat and ate with them.

 

[Deborah13]

Any of my posts?Isn't that kind of over reacting?

Sorry I didn't see this post until just now.

No I don't think so. I have a tendency to want answers to others view about why they say what they say.
So I ask for lots of clarifications until I understand and that can be very annoying to some people, like you. So it is better to refrain myself rather than cause someone else distress.
Just this morning another member who is quite good at taking the heat and even enjoys it I suspect, gave me reason to have to concede to his view and that's ok with me.

So refraining from commenting with some people is to keep all things peaceful.
That doesn't mean I'm not going to push the like button on your comments.
Blessings to you.

 

[JLB]

for His glory said -

No one has ever entered the third Heaven where God sits on His throne. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits (souls) of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,

Please gives the scripture that says no one has ever entered the third heaven where God sits on His throne.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

The isolated events of 70 AD and the holocaust will pale in comparison to a world wide event that will take the life of 3 Billion people.

Men's heart failing them for fear of what is coming upon the earth.

The Temple and city of Jerusalem were already destroyed once before the events of 70 AD.

I frankly don't see how you or anyone else could possibly miss these irrefutable facts.


JLB

Jerusalem and the first temple were destroyed by their enemies yes. But your missing my point, that they did it to themselves. They started the war with the Romans and then turned on each other.
Big difference.
You don't think their hearts were failing them during this horrendous time.

So it comes down to whether it's a world wide event and the number of people who will die.

BUT we are in the wrong thread to be discussing this issue. This is about the Rapture.
So I will stop. I apologize for being a part of taking this thread off topic!

 

[for_his_glory]

Please gives the scripture that says no one has ever entered the third heaven where God sits on His throne.

JLB

I believe I already have, but will post again.

Third Heaven - This is where God and the holy angels and spirits (souls) of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God.

 

[Deborah13]

I am going to answer you and onelove at the same time.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Breath = living soul

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Can not kill the soul for that is the very breath that goes back to God when we die. Our soul can never die and is preserved until Gods final judgment at the end of time. It is that breath of God brethed into us that made a living soul. Breath = living soul.

No one has ever entered the third Heaven where God sits on His throne. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits (souls) of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Psalms 2:4.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (soul) shall return unto God who gave it.
Ruach, the Hebrew word for spirit here, means "breath" or "wind" as well as "spirit".

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Luke 24:33-53 We see that Jesus had flesh and bone and did eat with the Disciples, but now the flesh was glorified. Just as we will see Jesus the way he desended into Heaven is the same way we to will be resurrected from the grave if we are not alive when Christ returns which gives the saying in 1Corinthians 15:55 it's meaning. This body will have put on immortality and become an incorruptable body that also eats and drinks being flesh and bone, but now being a sinless glorified body given by the Father.
1Corinthians 15 we are resurrected into a Spiritual body that scripture does not give detail what it will look like, but will be like that of Christ glorified body that eats and drinks as when he came and showed himself to the Disciples he told them to touch him and also sat and ate with them.

I don't see the answer to my question. It can be just a simple yes or no. I am asking if I am understanding your view?

You are saying that God has a dead person's breath/life somewhere. He will bring that back with Him when He raises the dead and the living?

 

[JLB]

I believe I already have, but will post again.

Third Heaven - This is where God and the holy angels and spirits (souls) of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God.

No one has ever entered the third Heaven where God sits on His throne

Please show the scripture that states no one has ever entered the third heaven.

Please do not list the scripture "tags" that you have referenced but the scripture itself that states no one has ever entered the third heaven where God dwells on His throne.


Thank you.


JLB

 

[Kathi]

Please show the scripture that states no one has ever entered the third heaven.

Please do not list the scripture "tags" that you have referenced but the scripture itself that states no one has ever entered the third heaven where God dwells on His throne.


Thank you.


JLB

If no one has entered the third heaven where Jesus is where are the dead believers? :neutral

 

[JLB]

If no one has entered the third heaven where Jesus is where are the dead believers? :neutral

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a one was caught up to the third heaven.
2 Corinthians 12:2

1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this." 2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne. 3 And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald. Revelation 4:1-3


JLB

 

[Kathi]

There are not three actual levels in heaven.I think the Mormons believe this.

 

[n2thelight]

In the beginning of the Millennium,the Kingdom will be inhabited only by those who follow Christ.They will be believing Jews and believing Gentiles saved by Christ.These people are coming over from the tribulation who survived.They will be mortal.They will be able to have children.Unfortunately all the children that are born during the Millennium will not come to Christ.At the last of the Millennium they will join Satan in a battle against Christ.
Did I answer your question?

So spirit and flesh will live side by side?So when Paul says all shall be changed,did he not mean all,and if all are changed where will these flesh people come from and how?

 

[Kathi]

So spirit and flesh will live side by side?So when Paul says all shall be changed,did he not mean all,and if all are changed where will these flesh people come from and how?

What is your position?Are you pre-trib....mid-trib....no trib?