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Rapture Theory

Kathi

I do have one more for ya,if you would be so kind to answer

You stated that there will be people born during the Millennium,my question is this.Will they be saved by faith,if so how,in leau of the below verse

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Meaning,they will see Christ,so where will there faith come from,and isn't that a little unfair to all who did believe without seeing?
 
I'm pretty much a pre-tribber. I went through it a couple times and studied it closely, have tons of notes and scriptures and so forth, and some very well known pre-trib Pastors have made a seriously good case for it. I remain open minded nevertheless and go through it again at times because some very respected members here have made a good case for no rapture. I think it behooves us to remain ready regardless. I think it's a safer mindset to believe in the rapture for one would be inclined to keep oil in ones lamp and be watching for it, rather than thinking that there is time and perhaps get distracted and careless in ones walk thinking to prepare for the great trib and survival and wotnot.

I think that people will be saved during the great trib onelove, because think about it, if the Bride disappears, there will be many fence sitters who know scripture very well that are left behind. Then it will click for them and they will know that they messed up and were left behind and turn to the Lord. Besides, during hard times, people naturally turn to the Lord.

Also, there is no mindset (that I know of) that would make one think that they will escape bad times by being whisked out of it. Many no-tribbers say this as if pre-tribbers are stupid or something, or perhaps that it proves something, lol. Why would anyone think that they would escape what has been being done to Christians for thousands of years? Christians have been persecuted since the beginning of time pretty much, and we are promised in scripture to have to suffer upon this earth. John was totally righteous and was be-headed, Peter was crucified upside down...are we any better even if we are good Christians and close to the Lord? No. SO why would anyone in their right mind think such a thing? I think that's some kind of contrivance created by no tribbers that may think it wold bolster their case or something?
 
Edward

I think that people will be saved during the great trib onelove, because think about it, if the Bride disappears, there will be many fence sitters who know scripture very well that are left behind. Then it will click for them and they will know that they messed up and were left behind and turn to the Lord. Besides, during hard times, people naturally turn to the Lord.
Also, there is no mindset (that I know of) that would make one think that they will escape bad times by being whisked out of it. Many no-tribbers say this as if pre-tribbers are stupid or something, or perhaps that it proves something, lol. Why would anyone think that they would escape what has been being done to Christians for thousands of years? Christians have been persecuted since the beginning of time pretty much, and we are promised in scripture to have to suffer upon this earth. John was totally righteous and was be-headed, Peter was crucified upside down...are we any better even if we are good Christians and close to the Lord? No. SO why would anyone in their right mind think such a thing? I think that's some kind of contrivance created by no tribbers that may think it wold bolster their case or something?
Click to expand...

Accepting Christ is the basic's of one being saved,however,that's one verse...There must come a time in our walk,that we put the bottle down(milk)and pick up a plate(meat)....We on this forum alone,can't seem to get His Word right,who will be here to teach them?

As for the escape,what does the verse endure till the end,mean to you?Is the rapture the end?The end times are written mostly for the end time generation,those of us who will be around during that season of His return,however the majority of it happens after the point of,when rapturist say they'll be gone,if this is the case ,who then are all these warnings written too...I mean,why study the book of Revelations if one will be gone after the 4th chapter,who is the rest of the book written too?And please don't say the trib saints,because as ive said above most Christians who've been studying His word all their life,can't seem to get it right....

My point exactly as far as the persecution goes,what makes us any better than them,that we should escape those things...We are the one's who are supose to teach those who are on the fence....I don't use that to bolster my case,only the scriptures,that clearly(to me anyway)teach that we shall be here during the trib...A shephered dosn't leave his flock,especially when there's danger,and that's what it shall be during the trib,and the danger will be the chance of losing their very soul.....

We must be here and take a stand against satan,and his army,for that is the purpose of having the full gospel armour on....

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The tribulation is not the end,it's the beginning......
 
onelove said:
Accepting Christ is the basic's of one being saved,however,that's one verse...There must come a time in our walk,that we put the bottle down(milk)and pick up a plate(meat)....We on this forum alone,can't seem to get His Word right,who will be here to teach them?

As for the escape,what does the verse endure till the end,mean to you?Is the rapture the end?The end times are written mostly for the end time generation,those of us who will be around during that season of His return,however the majority of it happens after the point of,when rapturist say they'll be gone,if this is the case ,who then are all these warnings written too...I mean,why study the book of Revelations if one will be gone after the 4th chapter,who is the rest of the book written too?And please don't say the trib saints,because as ive said above most Christians who've been studying His word all their life,can't seem to get it right....

My point exactly as far as the persecution goes,what makes us any better than them,that we should escape those things...We are the one's who are supose to teach those who are on the fence....I don't use that to bolster my case,only the scriptures,that clearly(to me anyway)teach that we shall be here during the trib...A shephered dosn't leave his flock,especially when there's danger,and that's what it shall be during the trib,and the danger will be the chance of losing their very soul.....

We must be here and take a stand against satan,and his army,for that is the purpose of having the full gospel armour on....

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

The tribulation is not the end,it's the beginning......
Click to expand...

Even if the rapture happens, the shepherd would not leave his flock, they would be with Him. :) What about Revelation 7? It speaks of many who were saved during the great tribulation and washed their robes. The warnings to all of mankind. People will learn to read the scriptures more literally during the great trib and change their hearts.

Endure to the end means just that, what it says. Endure to the end and keep your faith in God. Many people turn from God during crisis or even become angry at Him. This is not what we are to do. Trust is just that. Trust. Many times, the Lord waits until the very last minute to come and help. This does two things. It gives the believer a chance to endure to the end, and show the Lord the same, and also it gives more glory to God because by the end of the crisis situation, it has become worse in nature and allows God to do a greater work at that time, which is a bigger thing and so consequently would give Him more glory, more appreciation, and so forth. Even though the Lord waits until the last minute to help, I notice that He is never late...

Praise the Lord for that! :cross
 
veryberry said:
2 Cor 5: 8 - We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

What does this mean? I take it as, when I die, I am with the Lord where he is. If he is in the third level, then I am in the third level.

2 Cor 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Paul has been there...
Click to expand...

2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

2Corinthians 5:8 Paul is saying that if we are in the flesh (self) we are absent from God and his will. It is better to be absent from this flesh (self) and be present with the Lord meaning follow His will.
2 Corinthians 12:2 The man Paul is speaking of here is himself. Paul is speaking of the vision being caught up to the third heaven, but not physically being there. No one has ever been to the third heaven where God sits on his throne. The only ones there are God, his angels and Jesus.

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
 
onelove said:
Kathi

I do have one more for ya,if you would be so kind to answer

You stated that there will be people born during the Millennium,my question is this.Will they be saved by faith,if so how,in leau of the below verse

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Meaning,they will see Christ,so where will there faith come from,and isn't that a little unfair to all who did believe without seeing?
Click to expand...
In the beginning of the Millennium,the Kingdom will be inhabited only by those who follow Christ.They will be believing Jews and believing Gentiles saved by Christ.These people are coming over from the tribulation who survived.They will be mortal.They will be able to have children.Unfortunately all the children that are born during the Millennium will not come to Christ.At the last of the Millennium they will join Satan in a battle against Christ.
Did I answer your question?
 
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onelove said:
So do you think Christ was just talking with visions?As for the sleeping,I don't believe anyone is in the grave,scripture tells me that at death the soul returns to the Father, Ecclesiastes 12:7...Also the souls under the alter Revelation 6:9
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:....I don't believe in soul sleep,to me the Richman and the Beggar proves that all return to Heaven,and exactly what happens when they get there....Some dismiss this as simply a parable,I can't as find it to imformative......
Click to expand...

I do agree with you that there is no soul sleep, but what do you believe the soul is.
 
reba said:
I believe that the antichrist will be revealed in what is called "The Great Tribulation" which is the last three years Matthew 24:21.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The scriptures do not say ... the great tribulation .... that phrase is mans idea.... the scripture says 'great tribulation' a subtil but real difference
Click to expand...

I agree. How can people misinterpret that. No where in the Bible does it say Great Tribulation. All one has to do is see the world news and know that we are in great tribulations and will be getting worse until Christ returns. I think it's because we do not see here in America want is going on in other countries as many Christians are being persecuted to death, but is coming to America as even now much is happening here and also will become worse before the Lords return.
 
reba said:
The Biblical definition of antichrist is found in the 'little books of John....

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Click to expand...
:amen
 
Edward said:
I'm pretty much a pre-tribber. I went through it a couple times and studied it closely, have tons of notes and scriptures and so forth, and some very well known pre-trib Pastors have made a seriously good case for it. I remain open minded nevertheless and go through it again at times because some very respected members here have made a good case for no rapture. I think it behooves us to remain ready regardless. I think it's a safer mindset to believe in the rapture for one would be inclined to keep oil in ones lamp and be watching for it, rather than thinking that there is time and perhaps get distracted and careless in ones walk thinking to prepare for the great trib and survival and wotnot.

I think that people will be saved during the great trib onelove, because think about it, if the Bride disappears, there will be many fence sitters who know scripture very well that are left behind. Then it will click for them and they will know that they messed up and were left behind and turn to the Lord. Besides, during hard times, people naturally turn to the Lord.

Also, there is no mindset (that I know of) that would make one think that they will escape bad times by being whisked out of it. Many no-tribbers say this as if pre-tribbers are stupid or something, or perhaps that it proves something, lol. Why would anyone think that they would escape what has been being done to Christians for thousands of years? Christians have been persecuted since the beginning of time pretty much, and we are promised in scripture to have to suffer upon this earth. John was totally righteous and was be-headed, Peter was crucified upside down...are we any better even if we are good Christians and close to the Lord? No. SO why would anyone in their right mind think such a thing? I think that's some kind of contrivance created by no tribbers that may think it wold bolster their case or something?
Click to expand...

A good case?

I have read what many have taught about the pre trib Rapture, and have not found one that has any scripture to back up their "case'.

The number one "pre-trib" Rapture scripture in the bible is a clear reference to the Day of the Lord.

Do you honestly believe the Day of the Lord come before the great tribulation?

I would ask you to reference all the scriptures that pertain to the Day of the Lord, which is the Day of Jesus Christ, and honestly tell me that this will happen before the great tribulation.

1 Thessalonians is the description of the Resurrection and Rapture.

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

1 Thessalonians is the description of the Day of The Lord.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout...For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.


Thank you brother.


JLB
 
JLB said:
A good case?

I have read what many have taught about the pre trib Rapture, and have not found one that has any scripture to back up their "case'.

The number one "pre-trib" Rapture scripture in the bible is a clear reference to the Day of the Lord.

Do you honestly believe the Day of the Lord come before the great tribulation?
Click to expand...

Where does the Bible say, "The" great tribulation?

I would ask you to reference all the scriptures that pertain to the Day of the Lord, which is the Day of Jesus Christ, and honestly tell me that this will happen before the great tribulation.
Click to expand...

There it is again, "the" great tribulation?

1 Thessalonians is the description of the Resurrection and Rapture.

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

1 Thessalonians is the description of the Day of The Lord.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout...For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.


Thank you brother.


JLB
Click to expand...
 
Deborah13 said:
Where does the Bible say, "The" great tribulation?



There it is again, "the" great tribulation?
Click to expand...
The tribulation period is 7 years.The last half of the tribulation is called "The great tribulation".It is a the worst of the tribulation where the wrath of God is unleashed on the world.It is in reference to Matthew 24:21 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 
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Kathi said:
The tribulation period is 7 years.The last half of the tribulation is called "The great tribulation".It is a the worst of the tribulation where the wrath of God is unleashed on the world.It is in reference to Matthew 24:21 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Click to expand...

"there will be great tribulation" Not "The" great tribulation.

Where does this verse say that God's wrath will be unleashed on the world?
Don't feel like you must answer this question, I know you don't like to so just consider it to be rhetorical if you choose to. :nod
 
Deborah13 said:
"there will be great tribulation" Not "The" great tribulation[/U][/COLOR].

Where does this verse say that God's wrath will be unleashed on the world?
Don't feel like you must answer this question, I know you don't like to so just consider it to be rhetorical if you choose to. :nod
Click to expand...
No,but you are picking at words.Possibly because you do not believe in it.I am only stating what I believe in.I don't feel like I want to be questioned any longer.I have given the verses I believe in. God Bless and have a great day :)
 
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Who are they that God will bring with Him, in verse 14?
 
Kathi said:
No,but you are picking at words.Possibly because you do not believe in it.I am only stating what I believe in.I don't feel like I want to be questioned any longer.I have given the verses I believe in. God Bless and have a great day :)
Click to expand...

I said it is a rhetorical question for you and only if you wanted to answer.
Other people read all the posts.
I will no longer address any of your posts unless they are directed to me. Fair enough? :)
 
Deborah13 said:
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Who are they that God will bring with Him, in verse 14?
Click to expand...

Very good question as I was reading that very same passage today. We know in scripture that the soul is the very breath of God that gives us life, Genesis 2:7, so when Christ returns the souls, or the breath of God comes back to give back to those who are asleep in Christ when they are raised up to meet Jesus in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1Corinthians 15:50-57.
 
for_his_glory said:
Very good question as I was reading that very same passage today. We know in scripture that the soul is the very breath of God that gives us life, Genesis 2:7, so when Christ returns the souls, or the breath of God comes back to give back to those who are asleep in Christ when they are raised up to meet Jesus in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1Corinthians 15:50-57.
Click to expand...

If these are the souls in verses 16 and 17 that are in verse 14. When does this take place, when they come back with God in verse 14?
 
for_his_glory said:
Very good question as I was reading that very same passage today. We know in scripture that the soul is the very breath of God that gives us life, Genesis 2:7, so when Christ returns the souls, or the breath of God comes back to give back to those who are asleep in Christ when they are raised up to meet Jesus in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1Corinthians 15:50-57.
Click to expand...

Oh wait a minute, DUH....
You are saying that God has a dead person's breath/life somewhere. He will bring that back with Him when He raises the dead and the living?
 
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