I guess it is human nature to want to know the date of the Rapture. But this next Pope may not be the last Pope. The Rapture could be a hundred years away. Just stay ready so you don't have to get ready. We don't need to presume that the Rapture is right around the corner. It may be a long time away.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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Rapture to heaven in 1 Thess. 4
- Thread starter Freedman
- Start date
- Apr 22, 2011
- 30,952
- 16,442
Maybe you need to get into the book of Revelation and cross reference what John is given in these visions with the prophecy given in the OT, what was fulfilled by Christ already in the NT and that of which must come first before the return of Christ Jesus as it seems you have no clue.
What is your understanding of the Rapture theory and please use the scriptures for your support.
the problem with the Rapture theory, you want to believe every one gets Raptured. that simply not going to happen. ,if, if any get taken up it would be the elect ,only the elect .
all others that receive a resurrection live here on earth. if they do not live to a set of standards set by the kingdom .( BTW you may of prayed for that kingdom to come to earth as it is in heaven ). expect them to die ,that death of them is their destruction .
- Apr 22, 2011
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If you have read any of my postings in this thread you would see I do not believe in a pretrib Rapture of the Church. You know nothing of me and what Spiritual knowledge I have been given by the Holy Spirit.
Let me ask you, why do you not use scripture to back up your statements?
not wanting to be hurtful in any way. but if ya have Spiritual knowledge I'd think you would know ''Rapture of the Church'' is not in the bible.that and the word is Trinity. when ya get right down to it many bibles don't even have the word ''church'' in them
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- Apr 22, 2011
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Do you even read what others post or are you just opinionated ignoring what I already told you. One more time, I do not believe in a pretrib Rapture that is found nowhere in scripture as the scriptures call it a catching up of those who are God's own when Christ returns on the last day after the tribulations that are to come during the 3 1/2 years of the reign of the son of perdition, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, Matthew 24:29-31; 36-39; 2Thessalonians 2:1-12.
The word "church" is not found in the OT as it did not exist yet, but is found 120 times in the NT (KJV). The first time is found in Matthew 16:18.
What exactly does that mean? Does the Holy Spirit give you knowledge that is not in the Bible?
You have all heard that the word Rapture does not appear in the Bible. Nothing could be further from the truth. Let me show you the actual words Paul wrote in 1 Thess 4:17:
ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα.18 Ὥστε παρακαλεῖτε ἀλλήλους ἐν τοῖς λόγοις τούτοις.
Do you see the word Rapture? It is right there is plain view. Let me do some translation of the words Paul wrote:
ἔπειτα Then ἡμεῖς we οἱ ζῶντες who are alive οἱ περιλειπόμενοι who are left
ἁρπαγησόμεθα. will be raptured...
There is the word Rapture used by Paul.
What most critics mean when they say the word 'rapture' does not appear in the Bible, they really mean the word rapture is not translated in any English translation. Don't be fooled. Don't let them say Rapture does not appear in the 'Bible.' Remind them that Paul wrote the word raptured in 1 Thess 4:17. The Koine Greek word for rapture is ἁρπαγησόμεθα. So, the word Rapture is found in all Greek manuscripts of 1 Thess. This is not nit picking, this is just letting the critic use a translation, like the KJV or NIV, in stead of the BIBLE. It is important to communicate this. Remember, the critic is relying on a Translation of the Bible, not the Bible itself. All serious scholars use the Greek Bible, not a Translation into another language.
You not only know now that Rapture appears in the Bible, in fact, you have seen it.
did I say all bibles don't have the word church in them ? Actually the word church did not come into existence until Constantine made it possible
Greek Concordance: ἁρπαγησόμεθα (harpagēsometha)
Bible Hubhttps://biblehub.com › greek › arpage_sometha_726
GRK: σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις ; NAS: and remain will be caught up together ; KJV: [and] remain shall be caught up together
ἁρπαγησόμεθα is a Greek verb meaning snatch away, rapture, caught up, and other nuances. Are you making a statement or asking a question?
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You wrote: I also wrote a book on Revelations you can find in the End Times forum under the sub forum Revelations,
Do you mean Revelation or Revelations? I am not aware of any book called Revelations!
''and remain will be caught up together ''
the wording indicates many have all ready been caught up. its the ones that have not yet been caught up are the ones to be caught up.
it also points out there would be a limited number going,as it says , the remaining ones would be caught up. note it did not say, then every one is caught up.
there is a number in the book Revelation , a definite number of ones taken up from the earth that have been invited to be there.
the wording indicates many have all ready been caught up. its the ones that have not yet been caught up are the ones to be caught up.
it also points out there would be a limited number going,as it says , the remaining ones would be caught up. note it did not say, then every one is caught up.
there is a number in the book Revelation , a definite number of ones taken up from the earth that have been invited to be there.
- Apr 22, 2011
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Revelation is the sub forum. The name of my book is called The Unveiling you will have to scroll down to find all the chapters.
- Apr 22, 2011
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I'm not going to argue with you what is written in the KJV of the Bible. You can look it up.
- Apr 22, 2011
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You really need to give the scriptures for this as only a fool would believe the words of man.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Makes it pretty clear that no one dead or alive has been taken up to heaven.
- Apr 22, 2011
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John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
There is nothing extra that goes outside of the written word of God. There are many false teachings out there that is not found in scripture as man likes to teach a twisted word of God and this is why it is so important to test the spirits that try to teach us.
1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1John 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
John 3:13 is an interesting verse. I don’t believe Jesus is denying that Enoch or Elijah had been “taken up” to heaven.
That would be against not only the context of the verse but also the context of the conversation.
Jesus was telling Nicodemus that not only had he come down from heaven, but was in heaven at the same time he was speaking to Nicodemus.
Some translations omit the complete verse because they don’t understand it. hehe
.What do you think Jesus meant by saying he came down from heaven and was in heaven while speaking to Nicodemus?
- Apr 22, 2011
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Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13. Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth, they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, John 5:28, 29. It is only our spirit/breath/soul that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death at that particular time being he was 365 years old. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.
Genesis 49: 30 In the cave that is in the field of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the land of Canaan, which Abraham bought with the field of Ephron the Hittite for a possession of a burying place. 31There they buried Abraham and Sarah his wife; there they buried Isaac and Rebekah his wife; and there I buried Leah.
Deuteronomy 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6 and he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day.
2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere, first heaven)
Elijah, having ascended into the air by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. How long after? There are some difficulties in figuring the exact chronology as it varies from 2 to 10 years or more. A note in Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century A.D.) says 4 years, while the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA figures it at 7 years.
Regardless of the exact number of years there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet, saying..." (2Chron 21:12). Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.
Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts. Chariot of fire is used at times figuratively for host (angels) like in 2 Kings 2:11, 12: 6:17; Psalms 68:17; 104:1-4. Elijah, by his prayers and his counsel was the "chariot of Israel and the horseman thereof", meaning Elijah was the stronghold of Israel, the driving force of God. The Israelites never used chariots till the time of David.
When you compare 2 Kings 2:11-15 with 2 Kings 6:17 you see that God sent the host/angels down to Elijah who caught him up in a whirlwind and translated him to parts unknown. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him.
In John 3:1-15 Jesus was still here on earth face to face teaching Nicodemus and as the crucifixion had not happened yet at that time.
Some of the newer translations do omit certain things and that is why I only use the KJV and allow the Holy Spirit teach me.
Again, read John 3:1-15 as Jesus had not yet been crucified and still here on earth.
It's been pretty much 2,000 years since John 3:13 was pend,at that time its true no one went up. as I said that's 2000 years ago .
what has happened since then ? have you read Matthew 24 ? the disciples were wondering about something ,they wanted to know how they could know his time of being in power had begun.
as you read from 4-14 which of those things have not yet happen?
AN END,THE END COMES UPON THE 4 CORNERS OF EARTH
TERRIBLE SCENARIOS FROM NOW ON
Matthew 24:7- For NATION shall rise against NATION,...->
Daniel 11:41:- > ... many countries shall be overthrown (removed/ dissolved?); (Who has an ear let him hear what the Sspirit says to the Churches. Get ready)
And there shall be famines,
and pestilences,
and earthquakes, in divers places.
but all these are the beginning of sorrows-Matthew 24:7-8.
Revelation 6:3-4: (Will be fulfilled LITERALLY from now on)
3 And he opened the second seal, and I heard say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. (Yeah, this will fulfill LITERALLY from now on)
2Peter 3:11-18:
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED (something like an IMPLOSION), what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD (the current seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, or seventh and last millennium), wherein the heavens (Dispensations of Old Testament and New Testament-Ephesians 1:3-8) being on fire shall be DISSOLVED (Hebrews 8:13)and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens(the 3rd heaven-Luke 20:35-36 combined with 2Corinthians 12:1-4, take a look) and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
NATION against NATION. Each NATION for himself to subsist. Each NATION must subsist in/for itself. There will be total and complete enmity between nations, many countries will dissolve)
The scenarios among NATIONS shall be something like popular says: "whoever can, be save by itself, as best it can, save themselves if can."
And the people of GOD? Isaiah 26:20-21 and Matthew 24:16-22. Take a look.
Get ready