Bible Study Rapture

[ezra]

We have better sources than the opinions of who we ask.

and i would agree but opinions are like noses everyone has one.. some are good some are not

 

[ezra]

I'm asking you to simply read what the scripture says

i have

 

[JLB]

i have

Could we start with just one thing the scripture says about this doctrine?


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

• For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Can you agree that at the coming of the Lord, the resurrection takes place?



JLB

 

[ezra]

Could we start with just one thing the scripture says about this doctrine?

lol no for some reason discussion ends up saying i am wrong .i have agreed with scriptures have a good day

 

[Edward]

The church has to go through the (purifying) fire.

I used to be oh so pre-trib. I want pre-trib Lol! But after many hours and reading studying debating...there it is. We will go through the fire.

We have to or the Bride will not be perfected. On the plus side though, He said He will do a quick work...

Now I feel like, how could I be so stupid?! What makes me better than everyone else through the ages that have all had persecution and suffering? I'm not. That's how it works. Even Jesus suffered immensely.
(People say I wanna be like Jesus...ok, get ready to suffer.)

It will be worth it.

 

[ezra]

The church has to go through the (purifying) fire.

I used to be oh so pre-trib. I want pre-trib Lol! But after many hours and reading studying debating...there it is. We will go through the fire.

We have to or the Bride will not be perfected. On the plus side though, He said He will do a quick work...

Now I feel like, how could I be so stupid?! What makes me better than everyone else through the ages that have all had persecution and suffering? I'm not. That's how it works. Even Jesus suffered immensely.
(People say I wanna be like Jesus...ok, get ready to suffer.)

It will be worth it.

we go through the refiners fire every day

 

[for_his_glory]

There are many ways to interpret the apocalyptic, ecstatic visions of which John has done his best to render into human language. I, personally, am very hesitant to say that any particular understanding is "absolutely correct."

I agree with everything but "at the end of the 3 1/2 days." Again the language of the Apocalypse is highly symbolic an I believe we are probably giving too much precision to symbolic language.

iakov the fool

Scripture interprets itself when you read it word for word comparing OT prophecy in Jeremiah, Daniel, Joel, Zechariah, Ezekiel to name a few with that of what Jesus taught in Matthew 24 that gives full understanding to 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and to the visions John was given in Revelations who wrote these letters to the seven Churches in Asia. I come to find that there is very little symbolism in Revelation when you put the full context of all scripture together to understand that which is a mystery to many who have very little understanding.

It's taken me over twenty years of studying Revelations through only much prayer and guidance of the Holy Spirit who has revealed many mysteries to me that I had no understanding of and yet there is much more to study. I never ask anyone to believe what I teach, but take the full context of the scriptures and study them for themselves.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Apart from the Holy Spirit man can teach us nothing and there is a strong warning in Rev 22:18, 19 about adding to or taking away from the message of Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

my point exactly i have yet to argue one way or the other.. my whole point which has been ignored is timeline of events. is a year with GOD the same as our year ? i kind of doubt it

To understand the timeline of events one has to understand what times, times and a half time mean as given in many scriptures. No one knows when the first trumpet will sound nor the day or hour Jesus will return, Matthew 24:36-39. Jesus has told us what to watch for that comes after the seventh trumpet sounds, Rev 11:15-19, and the seven vial judgments are poured out, Rev Chapter 16. What we are to watch for is found in Matthew 24:29-31 as at that time on the last day, John 6:40, He will return in the air with His army and at His coming will rule the nations with an iron rod, meaning great power and authority, and with the brightness of His coming destroys the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire, Rev 19. Then He binds Satan and all both alive and in the grave will hear His voice to rise as we who are of Christ are then caught up to Him as there is only one resurrection, but two different judgments, John 5:28,29.

 

[for_his_glory]

i have told you your welcome to your belief and i am not going to say your wrong i am right.. what i will say is i disguise. i asked what and where the wilderness is? much of this is symbolic.. i can not agree us being shuffled off to some place on earth . while the wrath of God is poured out . God will take us out of here and then his wrath will be poured out on those LEFT BEHIND . WHEN THE CHURCH IS TAKEN OUT..THERE WILL BE NO holy SPIRIT FOR HE DWELL IN EACH ONE OF US WHO ARE SAVED . pardon the caps i hit them as i was typing... so i am not shouting . its like a buddy and me agree on there are things i simply do not believe the way he does.. i can not change him nor can he change me ,the Holy Spirit HAS THAT JOB.. so we find the things we have in common Jesus save Jesus way truth life. we must be born again we must also repent . a former pastor of mine who has been in the ministry over 50 years. will take the book of Revelations and explain it in a way that will make you cross eyed .

But yet you only give what you believe, but no scriptural support. You have already stated you are not a studet of the Revelations, but others like JLB and I are and this is what we try to teach others who like ourselves at one time lacked knowledge in this area. Yes we all can agree Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and the important thing is to be prepared as His Bride when He does return.

 

[for_his_glory]

this is the %100 true correct way to study your pretrib base just one part the church is no longer mentioned after chapter 3 . men like D,R David Jeremiah D.R James Merritt are pre trib my guess is Charles Stanley also these men all hold doctors degree, . my self in between pre and mid... but mainly just be ready might i add Scofield is very good

There are over fifty verses in the NT alone that shows the Church (body of Christ) is still here until the last day when Christ returns as I already posted them. A Doctorate Degree just like myself who went to school and became a licensed Evangelist many years ago doesn't mean you have all wisdom and understanding of the word of God, but many have jumped on the line your pocket bandwagon, but yet have no understanding.

 

[for_his_glory]

The church has to go through the (purifying) fire.

I used to be oh so pre-trib. I want pre-trib Lol! But after many hours and reading studying debating...there it is. We will go through the fire.

We have to or the Bride will not be perfected. On the plus side though, He said He will do a quick work...

Now I feel like, how could I be so stupid?! What makes me better than everyone else through the ages that have all had persecution and suffering? I'm not. That's how it works. Even Jesus suffered immensely.
(People say I wanna be like Jesus...ok, get ready to suffer.)

It will be worth it.

I too fell into the pretrib teachings years ago as I had very little knowledge at that time. Their main scripture of proof is that the Church is no longer here after Rev 4:1-4. These verses say nothing of a pretrib Rapture. My question is if we are taken out before the tribulation then what is the purpose of God's wrath and even that of the events of Rev 13 that leads up to the mark of the beast. Would not God just make final judgment casting those who have rejected Christ into the lake of fire and then usher down the New Jerusalem? What would be the purpose of the seven trumpets, the mark of the beast and the seven vile judgements as all who have rejected Christ at this pretrib time will have already sealed their fate as Christ only returns once for His Bride and ends all abominations of this world.

 

[Jim Parker]

there is a strong warning in Rev 22:18, 19 about adding to or taking away from the message of Christ.

Actually, that is a strong warning about adding or taking away from the book of Revelation.

 

[ezra]

, but many have jumped on the line your pocket bandwagon, but yet have no understanding.

what pobcket bandwagon... i for one am not impressed by degrees.. i respect them but they do not make the preacher .

 

[ezra]

But yet you only give what you believe, but no scriptural support. You have already stated you are not a studet of the Revelations, but others like JLB and I are and this is what we try to teach others who like ourselves at one time lacked knowledge in this area. Yes we all can agree Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and the important thing is to be prepared as His Bride when He does return.

be ye ready
Matthew 24:44 King James Version (KJV)
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

that is all i need
Romans 13:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Matthew 24:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.



i am told to be ready like the five wise virgins ..your making a mountain out of a ant hill .. there is just part of my scriptures .

 

[ezra]

There are over fifty verses in the NT alone that shows the Church (body of Christ) is still here until the last day when Christ returns as I already posted them. A Doctorate Degree just like myself who went to school and became a licensed Evangelist many years ago doesn't mean you have all wisdom and understanding of the word of God, but many have jumped on the line your pocket bandwagon, but yet have no understanding.

ok show scripture that says thus saith the LORD the Church (body of Christ) is still here until the last day when Christ returns . them exact words word for word line upon line . my band wagon is to be ready

 

[JLB]

ok show scripture that says thus saith the LORD the Church (body of Christ) is still here until the last day when Christ returns . them exact words word for word line upon line . my band wagon is to be ready

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:15

• by the word of the Lord -

• we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep

The Rapture and Resurrection is at the coming of the Lord.

If you study the scriptures about the coming of the Lord, you will discover that three significant things occur.


The Resurrection
The Rapture
The destruction of the antichrist


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

what pobcket bandwagon... i for one am not impressed by degrees.. i respect them but they do not make the preacher .

No they don't make a preacher; they identify a scholar.
But you still have to pay close attention to what they say and do. The pastor may be the Reverend Doctor Professor Teufelsdröckh who speaks his heresies beautifully and has a fish with a rainbow flag in it on the church's marquee.
(yuk!)

Of he could be a Martin Luther or John Wesley or a Jonathan Edwards.

On the other hand, also beware of the grammar school drop-out, Bible genius based on his being taught by the HOLYghost. (And who needs you to send money so he can get a new private jet plane for his ministry or who posts on all the Christian forums because every church he has attended has asked him to please shut up or get out.)

We get both extremes and everything in between.

But, what do I know???

iakov the fool

 

[ezrider]

ok show scripture that says thus saith the LORD the Church (body of Christ) is still here until the last day when Christ returns . them exact words word for word line upon line . my band wagon is to be ready

I'm not going to get into a rapture debate, but your band wagon comment spurred a thought. What is it we are to be ready for? By reading through many of the comments in this thread it becomes evident that many people only look for and know the wrath of God. Is that what they prepare themselves for? If so, then the gospel message of the kingdom has been lost upon them. They don't understand the rapture or the nature of it when they only see it in the context of God's wrath. It should be seen in the context of salvation.

Romans 2:5
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Luke 3:7
Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.


If we look to the wrath of God, then Christ remains hidden from us. We must come to know Him in His Salvation.

 

[ezra]

What is it we are to be ready for?

the coming of the LORD who can be ready? anyone who is born again.. how do we be ready be prepared live our life like he could return at any minute*** (something many of else fail at } the saying back years ago wwjd.... probably not what we do! this does not mean we are living very sinful life.. but are we really watch as in expecting any time.. i am not looking at the wrath to come.. i am fleeing from the wrath to come by abiding in Christ. i know in who, i have believed i have a KNOW so salvation. i am a child of the light so darkness can not over take me . see at no time have i rook real POSITION ON COMING OF THE Lord TIME LINE " pardon my caps i would hate to offend some one " the one thing i will stand on is not going through the tribulation where God pours out his wrath .. and for the most i agree with you.. please dont ask what part lol this is how all this got started . i simply enjoy a good discussion

 

[ezra]

No they don't make a preacher; they identify a scholar.
But you still have to pay close attention to what they say and do. The pastor may be the Reverend Doctor Professor Teufelsdröckh who speaks his heresies beautifully and has a fish with a rainbow flag in it on the church's marquee.
View attachment 5952(yuk!)

Of he could be a Martin Luther or John Wesley or a Jonathan Edwards.

On the other hand, also beware of the grammar school drop-out, Bible genius based on his being taught by the HOLYghost. (And who needs you to send money so he can get a new private jet plane for his ministry or who posts on all the Christian forums because every church he has attended has asked him to please shut up or get out.)

We get both extremes and everything in between.

But, what do I know???

iakov the fool

wee did i throw a rock and hit a hornets nest... i dont follow
Ephesians 4:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

i know how to discern i also know if it is something i dont understand .i study it out. none of this is my first rodeo .i been in the ministry better 20 years .i announced my calling in 1999 .before that i was s,s teacher.. i am not bragging on what i have accomplished . just making a point i am not so fly by the night christian who talks the talk and never makes effort to walk the walk .. so i am not some wet behind ears BOY . yes you bet i come up through the school of hard knocks taught by the HOLY GHOST { But, what do I "you" know??? } i hope you know what your talking about..the same as i do.
talking about Jessie the preaching Cajun needing the new jet . i pray no one gives him any money..but some body will. that is a name it claim it die hard charismatic. i once heard a man say he could lay his hands on any car he wanted and God would give it

i hope this clarifies a few things i have tried to be as respectful as i can