Regaining Salvation...

[JLB]

Also the "it" we wait for "with perserverance" (not without any perserveramce) that's red and underlined is not salvation (we were already saved) but rather our reserrection bodies.

Romans 8:23 (LEB) Not only this, but we ourselves also, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves while we await eagerly our adoption, the redemption of our body.
Also note we already have "the first fruits", The Spirit. Now that's perserverance.

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

The salvation by faith we have have now, will be received by those who continue steadfast to the end, which is called perseverance.

We are waiting for our salvation with perseverance, for it shall come when Jesus returns.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28



JLB

 

[JLB]

Correct.


Also the "it" we wait for "with perserverance" (not without any perserveramce) that's red and underlined is not salvation (we were already saved) but rather our reserrection bodies.

Romans 8:23 (LEB) Not only this, but we ourselves also, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves while we await eagerly our adoption, the redemption of our body. ​

Also note we already have "the first fruits", The Spirit. Now that's perserverance.

Brother, a person receives salvation [in reality] at the end of their faith.

IOW if you still have faith for salvation, then by default you don't have salvation, but rather you have the hope of salvation.

That is what faith is: the substance of the thing hoped for... the evidence of things not seen.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

Again, if you still have faith, then by default, you have the substance of the thing [salvation] you are hoping for.


Paul explained it this way, using the language of faith for salvation.

24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Romans 8:24-25

What the devil is after is your faith. His job is to get you to stop believing in Jesus Christ.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


The hope of the Gospel, is the salvation of your soul.

The way we obtain this salvation is to continue in the faith... steadfast to the end.

Because at the end of your faith, you will receive the salvation of your soul.

The devil has raised up an army of those who will tell you don't need to continue in the faith, or that you can stop believing because you have eternal life the moment you believe and you can't ever lose it. OSAS.



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

In John 6:44, Jesus says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."

If we are called to continually forgive, and God draws us to Him, possibly justvas continually, then it could be thought that God is giving us salvation repeatedly. Why would that be an issue? It says that God is patient so that no one will be lost, because he wants everyone to be able to be saved. A wonderful God who give salvation often, and rewards rightousness often, is the kind of hope and grace that keeps me going with hope, when I know I'm weak and when I fail against sin. That hope of reconsoulation is paired with Jesus's promie not to lose any that God has given Him. And that hope fight off the scary and divusive perdpective of not being a real christian.

That's a very good perspective. God "bends over backwards" to bring us into the family.

 

[chessman]

Brother, a person receives salvation [in reality] at the end of their faith.

Paul's talking about a saved person (one who has been saved already, which is why he says "we were saved...", past tense) waiting in hope for a resurrection body (just look at the thing that is being hoped for). He DOES NOT say we are waiting in hope for our salvation. You just make that idea up.

The very verse you posted proves people, in reality, receive salvation when they believe and The Spirit of perseverance to boot.

 

[Cygnus]

Well, that is what confession and forgiveness is about.
But, no, I don't think we loose our salvation everything we sin. That could be 70 times 7 times a day!

That could be true...we sin alot.

So, what about the question....how many times can we lose salvation and then regain it?

 

[Cygnus]

Can we get back on topic?

how many times can we lose salvation and then regain it?

JLB, stay on topic and stop trying to steal the thread. WE ALL know you believe we can lose our salvation. WE ALL understand your position.
Lets take it a step further.....how many times can we lose salvation and then regain it?

 

[dianegcook]

Can we get back on topic?

how many times can we lose salvation and then regain it?

JLB, stay on topic and stop trying to steal the thread. WE ALL know you believe we can lose our salvation. WE ALL understand your position.
Lets take it a step further.....how many times can we lose salvation and then regain it?

Salvation is always there for everyone.
Sin separates our fellowship with Him.
Confess your sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
Back in fellowship.
Think of the prodigal son...
Also in Rev.2:10 it states, be faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
If you lose your faith, don't you think you can lose your salvation?
Maybe some converted to Islam, Budda and so forth.
Will God be pleased?
How many times is an unknown number, different for everyone..

 

[chessman]

The devil has raised up an army of those who will tell you don't need to continue in the faith, or that you can stop believing because you have eternal life the moment you believe and you can't ever lose it. OSAS.

Maybe. Though that's not really what OSAS means or teaches ("you don't need to continue in the faith" that is). But anyway, I don't really listen much to people that tell me theological things without any Scriptural support to back up their claims. Especially when what they say just don't sound quite right to me and you then ask for Scripture(s) that say what they say and they don't provide any. Or worse, they point out one or more that do NOT support their theological notion. Some even directly conflicting with their notion. But I appreciate the warning. I'll be on the look out for people that tell me "you can stop believing because... _____" (fill in the blank). You're the first person who's mentioned the notion that you can stop believing because _you don't need to continue_. You're right, that idea (no matter what goes in the blank) doesn't sound True to me. Good thing I don't believe it's true.

Plus, I kind of like being a believer in Christ who has the gift of Eternal Life and The Spirit of perserverance in me to boot. Think I'll keep it (and Him), too.

 

[Eugene]

I wonder what would have been King Davids eternity had he not repented

Most likely physical death such as Moses suffered due to unbelief?

 

[reba]

to many reports on this thread to allow it to stay open .. the mod threads will be reviewing this..

 

[Mike]

Opening up again. Not far off topic, but some posts might lead this thread further off. The Guidelines of the A&T state that an OP should use Scripture to declare a position. This is a debate-formatted forum, and stating a position will drive the topic on point more effectively.

Also this is another reminder that you are to use scripture if you are going to dispute what someone has claimed. Credit to the members who take the time to cite or quote scripture. When you don't do this, it can appear to be that little thought has gone into the response.

The Guidelines are in place to facilitate honest debate. Adhere to them and the ToS, and threads will not need to be closed. Thank you.

 

[FreeGrace]

Cygnus said: ↑
I have to think you are saying everytime we sin we lose our salvation.

Well, that is what confession and forgiveness is about.

No, it is not! Please count the number of times John mentioned "fellowship" in 1 John 1 BEFORE he wrote v.9.

The point is that sin breaks fellowship with God. Not relationship. And confession of our sins provides forgiveness and cleanses us, which is another way to say restores fellowship. Just as Jesus washed the feet of His disciples in John 13. In that day, walking on their "roads", which they shared with animals, one's feet would get covered in animal excrement. It was NECESSARY to clean the feet before entering anyone's house or business. iow, there could be no fellowship in visiting a friend if your feet weren't cleansed. They wouldn't even let you in.

And thanks to good ol' Peter (pebble), because he wanted a whole bath again, Jesus had the opportunity to teach about fellowship, which is what "abiding" is all about.

In fact, Jesus plainly told him that he was "already clean", meaning "already saved" and didn't need a whole bath again. But his feet needed daily cleansing. And Jesus also noted that "not all of you are clean", a clear reference to Judas, who wasn't saved.

But, no, I don't think we loose our salvation everything we sin. That could be 70 times 7 times a day!

The question wasn't answered. If one can lose salvation, how many times can one regain salvation?

 

[FreeGrace]

Brother, a person receives salvation [in reality] at the end of their faith.

IOW if you still have faith for salvation, then by default you don't have salvation, but rather you have the hope of salvation.

Then your views are in direct contradiction of what Jesus said in John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Jesus made 3 promises here for those who believe:
1. They HAVE eternal life. Present tense noted.
2. They DO NOT come into judgment. Future promise.
3. They HAVE PASSED from spiritual death to eternal life.

This is one of the strongest statements FOR eternal security in Scripture.

The ONLY criteria is to believe. As a result of believing, all 3 promises WILL COME TRUE.

And, just to nip it in the bud, the claim that one must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved, or have these 3 promises kept cannot be found in Scripture. Or we'd have seen it by now.

 

[FreeGrace]

Salvation is always there for everyone.
Sin separates our fellowship with Him.
Confess your sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
Back in fellowship.
Think of the prodigal son...
Also in Rev.2:10 it states, be faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
If you lose your faith, don't you think you can lose your salvation?
Maybe some converted to Islam, Budda and so forth.
Will God be pleased?
How many times is an unknown number, different for everyone..

 

[FreeGrace]

Maybe. Though that's not really what OSAS means or teaches ("you don't need to continue in the faith" that is). But anyway, I don't really listen much to people that tell me theological things without any Scriptural support to back up their claims. Especially when what they say just don't sound quite right to me and you then ask for Scripture(s) that say what they say and they don't provide any. Or worse, they point out one or more that do NOT support their theological notion. Some even directly conflicting with their notion. But I appreciate the warning. I'll be on the look out for people that tell me "you can stop believing because... _____" (fill in the blank). You're the first person who's mentioned the notion that you can stop believing because _you don't need to continue_. You're right, that idea (no matter what goes in the blank) doesn't sound True to me. Good thing I don't believe it's true.

Plus, I kind of like being a believer in Christ who has the gift of Eternal Life and The Spirit of perserverance in me to boot. Think I'll keep it (and Him), too.

In my morning devotions and Bible reading, I read this:
Jude 4 - For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

My position on God's grace has led to a number of posters over the years to claim that my view "gives a license to sin", which I've always scoffed at. But here we see who ACTUALLY does teach that one "has a license to sin". And it isn't those who PROCLAIM Jesus Christ as our only Sovereign and Lord. It's those who are "godless men" and actually DENY Jesus Christ as Sovereign and Lord.

So I hope this permanently lays to rest the ridiculous charge that God's grace in light of eternal security gives anyone a "license to sin". That is just absurd.

 

[JLB]

Then your views are in direct contradiction of what Jesus said in John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Amen. A solid promise that those who believe can stand on!

However, those who believe for a while, then return to unbelieving are not promised anything except hell.

JLB

 

[JLB]

So I hope this permanently lays to rest the ridiculous charge that God's grace in light of eternal security gives anyone a "license to sin". That is just absurd.

Grace is not a license to sin.

People who are taught false doctrine, think they can use grace as a license to sin, not understanding that those who call on the name of the Lord are to depart from iniquity.

Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”
2 Timothy 2:19


JLB

 

[Taniesh]

Does it not stand to reason that if a person truly gets saved the value of being saved weighs far more than the world can offer through temptations. Although God knows we will be tempted which is why the scripture goes in
Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.(KJV)

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Can we get back on topic?

how many times can we lose salvation and then regain it?

JLB, stay on topic and stop trying to steal the thread. WE ALL know you believe we can lose our salvation. WE ALL understand your position.
Lets take it a step further.....how many times can we lose salvation and then regain it?

Cygnus, I don't think anyone is trying to steal the thread or change the topic. The relation to being able to lose our salvation is the premiss behind the question how many times can we lose our salvation and regain it. When it seems JLB gave an answer relating the lesson to forgive in Mathew 18:21-22, in reference to also our salvation, the response you made in post 12 stepped away from the question to the premiss behind the question. It is the same response in both posts 7 and 14 that you directed to Reba. Talking about how we would lose salvation as a way to dismiss the answer. It can only be assumed that from that point on in the conversation tree, in order to go back to the original question, the issue of loosing salvation, how we lose it, if we can lose it and why we lose it would have to be discussed before returning to the answers already given.

To be fair and honest in your approach and in this discussion you must allow this, expecially if when someone gives their answer you question the premiss behind it. But make note, there is reason to worry if our salvation is as strong as we hope it is. In Mathew 24 Jesus describes the prophetic signs for the end times, and in that context, Mathew 24:24, Jesus says that even the elect might be deceived by false prophets and masaiahs, if it's possible.

24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

In Mathew 18:15-20 Jesus talks about what to do if a brother or sister in faith sins against you. In verse 15 I've read translations where it says "if they listen to you, you've gained them back," "if they listen to you, you've won them over," and though I'm having difficulty finding it I think I've read a translation that terms it that you've saved them. In essence if you show them their error and they repent their won back away from whatever sin was the issue.

Both of these verses give a worry about if salvation can be lost. And since it is the premis of the question "how many times can it be lost," I'd really expect a better approach to take the explainations given seriously, or even invite them to explain what they mean instead of baiting the conversation with a question, looking at the premiss, and then jumping back to "let's get back on topic," as if no answers were given. It is a very dishonest approach.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How many times can a christian lose then regain their salvation?

I asked this question in a previous post, but. it wasn't answered.

The question wasn't if you could or couldn't lose your salvation...so don't go there. I would like this thread to last past 43 replies.

Only once.
The real question is what space of time will God allow the Christ rejector to repent and come come back to the "the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified" (Hebrews 10:29 NASB).

Once God closes the door of opportunity to repent of unbelief it is impossible for it to be opened again:

"it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned." (Hebrews 6:6-8 NASB)

In the passage above we see the implication that God is patient and waits for the ground that receives the blessing of God to produce it's fruit before he turns it over to be burned if it doesn't, it's unfruitfulness being the evidence of the person's rejection and unbelief in Christ. I personally think it varies depending on the person how long God leaves the door open to come back to him after rejecting the salvation you had in him.