Regaining Salvation...

[dirtfarmer]

Please prove from the scriptures that angels are not sons of God, and already have what we are wanting to attain?

We will become as the angels, becoming sons of God at the resurrection, when Jesus returns.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36




Define salvation.


JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Why was Jesus made a little lower than the angels?

 

[dirtfarmer]

Please prove from the scriptures that angels are not sons of God, and already have what we are wanting to attain?

We will become as the angels, becoming sons of God at the resurrection, when Jesus returns.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36




Define salvation.


JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Please provide scripture that states that we desire to have what angels have. There is no salvation for the angels that sinned.

1 Peter 1:12 " Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy ghost, sent down from heaven, which things the angels desire to look into."

 

[Jim Parker]

It absolutely is!

whatever

 

[Jim Parker]

how about understanding what they mean?

YEah.
Go ahead and give it a try.

 

[Jim Parker]

Rom 11:29 states that the gifts and call of God are IRREVOCABLE.

RIght. ANd Paul was talking about God's choosing of Israel, not Calvin's PReservation of the Saints.

Rom 6:23 states that eternal life is a gift of God.

IT is a gift.
IT is possible to discard a gift.

The problem with "proof texting", as you have done, is it takes little bits of what is written out of their context and then forces tyhem into another context where they don't belong. It's like putting Tabasco Sauce in an ice cream sundae.

 

[gr8grace3]

I said this regarding John 5:24:
"1. They HAVE eternal life. Present tense noted.
2. They DO NOT come into judgment. Future promise.
3. They HAVE PASSED from spiritual death to eternal life.

This is one of the strongest statements FOR eternal security in Scripture."

Absolutely correct. In fact it is a POINT of doctrine. Something we(as believers) need to pay special attention to. The Lord Jesus Christ knows that eternal security is one of the number one doctrines that satan will try to corrupt. That is why The Lord included it in a "Truly truly" verse that makes us go......," Why are You putting such an emphasis on this point?"

The Lord Jesus Christ emphasized it in the gospel of John and Paul follows through with it in Eph 2.........as many other places.

God bless Brother.

 

[gr8grace3]

RIght. ANd Paul was talking about God's choosing of Israel, not Calvin's PReservation of the Saints.

Calvins perseverance of the saints is way different than eternal security and the Lord Jesus Christs preservation of the saints.

Calvins perseverance of the saints is the exact same thing as the Armins loss of salvation..........just worded a bit a different.

Calvins~~if one loses faith or doesn't persevere in the faith.....you lose the salvation you "thought" you had.

Armin~~ if one loses faith you lose salvation.

Just a subtle difference in wording, but the same belief.

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer here

Please provide scripture that states that we desire to have what angels have. There is no salvation for the angels that sinned.

1 Peter 1:12 " Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy ghost, sent down from heaven, which things the angels desire to look into."

I didn't use the word desire, those are your words.

Here is what I said:

Please prove from the scriptures that angels are not sons of God, and already have what we are wanting to attain?

IOW Angels already have what we are wanting to attain.

We will become as the angels, becoming sons of God at the resurrection, when Jesus returns.

Here's the scripture that I posted, please read it.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God,beingsons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36


We will BECOME equal to the angels as sons of God, if we are counted worthy to attain that age.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Please prove from Scripture that any angels were EVER saved in the first place."

Please prove from the scriptures that angels are not sons of God, and already have what we are wanting to attain?

OK, you can't prove that angels were EVER saved in the first place. I don't have to prove anything. But ignoring my request proves that your claim can't be proved from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Again, prove from Scripture that any angels were ever saved."

Define salvation.
JLB

Since the insinuation that angels were saved and then lost came from your posts, I believe the onus is on you to both define what salvation in regard to angels mean, and then to prove from Scripture that angels were EVER saved.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Rom 6:23 states that eternal life is a gift of God."

False! That's half of a scripture.

Please prove that my statement is false, since you claim that statement is false.

If eternal life isn't a gift of God, please explain what Paul's clear statement: "but the gift of God IS eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord".

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

OK. So, is eternal life a gift of God, or not? From Rom 6:23. Please answer.

Or explain how the phrase "the wages of sin is death" CHANGES or NEGATES my statement that "the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord".

 

[FreeGrace]

Romans 11:29 states that the gifts and call together are irrevocable. Meaning without regret.

If God takes away or removes any of His gifts that He's already given, then He HAS REGRETS for giving it in the first place. That's just basic understanding of word meaning.

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29

How many of God's gifts here?

There must be a call, for there to be someone to answer the call to repentance.

Huh??

Together these are without regret.JLB

So explain what it means for God to be "without regret" regarding giving of His gifts.

 

[FreeGrace]

We will BECOME equal to the angels as sons of God, if we are counted worthy to attain that age.JLB

Where does the Bible say that we will become EQUAL to angels? It doesn't say that.

In fact, Paul says that we will judge the angels in 1 Cor 6.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Rom 11:29 states that the gifts and call of God are IRREVOCABLE."

RIght. ANd Paul was talking about God's choosing of Israel, not Calvin's PReservation of the Saints.

What does Calvin's preservation of the saint have to do with my quote of Rom 11:29? And prove that Paul was talking about God's election of Israel in 11:29. iow, prove that the gifts of God is Israel's election.

IT is a gift.
IT is possible to discard a gift.

Where in the Bible has anyone discarded any gift of God? Please stop using lousy human examples that do not equate with God's gifts.

 

[JLB]

Where does the Bible say that we will become EQUAL to angels? It doesn't say that.

In fact, Paul says that we will judge the angels in 1 Cor 6.

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God,...being sons of the resurrection.

Please show from the scriptures the angels that will be judged, whether the angels who sinned and were cast down to hell, or God's holy angels.


JLB

 

[JLB]

If God takes away or removes any of His gifts that He's already given, then He HAS REGRETS for giving it in the first place. That's just basic understanding of word meaning.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2

• Do those who come to be "in Him", do so because of faith in Him, or because they worked to earn their place in Him?

• In this passage, it says "He" takes away the branch from being [connected] "in Him". Who is the "He" that does the removing of the branch:

A. The Devil?
B. Your Pastor?
C. God?


JLB

 

[dirtfarmer]

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God,...being sons of the resurrection.

Please show from the scriptures the angels that will be judged, whether the angels who sinned and were cast down to hell, or God's holy angels.


JLB

hello JLB, dirtfarmer

1 Corinthians 6:2-3 "Know ye not that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things that pertain to life.

 

[JLB]

hello JLB, dirtfarmer

1 Corinthians 6:2-3 "Know ye not that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? How much more things that pertain to life.

What's your point?

Does this define which angels we are to judge, whether the angels who sinned during the days of Noah, or the angels of God?

Either way, it does not diminish what the word says about being equal to the angels, and sons of God: being sons of the resurrection.

we must be counted worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection, to be equal to the angels.

In know way does this say we are greater than the angels but will who attain to the resurrection will be equal to the angels.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

Not greater than the angels, but equal to the angels.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36

for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God,...being sons of the resurrection.

Please show from the scriptures the angels that will be judged, whether the angels who sinned and were cast down to hell, or God's holy angels.
JLB

Nope again.

Here is the Greek word and it's meaning:

isaggelos
Thayer Definition:
1) like the angels

NASB - for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

NIV - and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

The archaic KJV missed the translation.

Believers are compared to angels in that being sons of the resurrection, like the angels, they can no longer die.

So, better translations, ones that are honest to the Greek lexicons, do not support your claim.

 

[FreeGrace]

Please show from the scriptures the angels that will be judged, whether the angels who sinned and were cast down to hell, or God's holy angels. JLB

I already gave the book and chapter.

1 Cor 6:3 - Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

Apparently, you did not know.