J
jocor
Guest
Who said anything about the law revealing righteousness? I know full well my righteousness comes through Yeshua. That does not give me license to sin by breaking any commandment/law.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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Sabbath Day business
- Thread starter Classik
- Start date
- Jul 13, 2012
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Can you show us from Genesis, whereby it was commanded to put to death those who gathered sticks to make a fire, on the Sabbath ?
This ordinance was added...
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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The handwriting is a reference to the written law of Moses, which was abolished in His flesh.
As it is written
The law was added until the Seed should come.
Do you confess the Jesus, the Messiah has come in the flesh?
If you do, then you acknowledge the law that added, has been removed.
If you chose to call the law that was added, a man made set of dogmas then that is on you.
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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The law was added until the Seed should come. Galatians 3:19
J
jocor
Guest
This verse cannot mean that the law ended (was made void) when the seed (Yeshua) came. That would contradict other verses like;
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
1Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Matthew 5:17-20 - "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you,Tillheaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you,Thatexcept your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Ezekiel 36:26,27 - "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them."
Psalm 119:152 - "Concerning thy testimonies (the Ten Commandments), I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.”
Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
1Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for men stealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Matthew 5:17-20 - "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you,Tillheaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you,Thatexcept your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Ezekiel 36:26,27 - "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them."
Psalm 119:152 - "Concerning thy testimonies (the Ten Commandments), I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.”
I believe Galatians 3:19 is referring to the law as it was embodied within the Old Covenant. That ministration of the law ended when the OC ended. Now the law is written in our hearts and minds under the NC and is administered differently. There is no condemnation/death penalty for breaking it and sin is dealt with through Yeshua’s blood rather than animal blood.
- Jul 13, 2012
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The righteousness apart from the law has been revealed, even the righteousness of faith.
Righteousness apart from the law...
The is no law of Moses to keep any longer, as it has been declared obsolete. Hebrews 8:13
The law that was added had been taken out of the way, and abolished as well as nailed to the cross, so that those who were under the law (Jews) have been redeemed from the law. Galatians 4:4
The righteous REQUIREMENT of the law, that was before the law and was seen in the was OBEDIENCE, to love God, as evidenced by loving your neighbor as yourself.
The sabbath according to the law of Moses was abolished.
The Sabbath was made for man to rest a day during the week.
The Sabbath according to Moses required the death penalty for picking up sticks to build a fire...
The Sabbath before the law was added had not such penalty.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
- Oct 31, 2011
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We get a righteousness from God that then fulfills, not destroys the law:
"He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4 NASB)
But the church has misunderstood receiving the righteousness of God as a ticket to no longer have to fulfill the righteousness of the law.
Hebrews 8:13 NASB says the first COVENANT has been made obsolete, not the law. Paul commands us to fulfill the law:
"(H)e who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." (Romans 13:8-10 NASB capitals in original)
...so we know the law is not what was made obsolete.
And here Paul shows us how our freedom from the covenant and trying to be justified through that covenant does not mean freedom from the law:
"(Y)ou were called to freedom (from justification by the law, see context), brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." (Galatians 5:13-14 NASB capitals in original)
This shows well the difference between the law and the covenant and how the church has mistaken the passing away of the first covenant with a passing away of the law. We see that Paul plainly tells the church that our freedom from literal covenant requirements to be justified before God is not a freedom from the law.
The requirement to do this did not get nailed to the cross:
"Love your neighbor as yourself" LEVITICUS 19:18
...and yet the church is certain that the requirement to fulfill the law was nailed to the cross. What got nailed to the cross was the debt of the law against those who do not fulfill the law. Paul commands us to fulfill the law, so we know the responsibility to fulfill the law was not nailed to the cross. He even quotes the law of Moses to show us that it gets fulfilled, not destroyed by faith in Christ.
The Mosaic WAY the law of Sabbath is fulfilled is what we no longer have to do. That old way is the covenant that got put away. The New Covenant way to enter into Sabbath Rest is faith in Christ, but it's a new way that still fulfills, not destroys, the lawful requirement for Sabbath Rest.
Faith fulfills the law of Sabbath Rest. Everyone who does not fulfill the law of Sabbath Rest through faith will perish in the Judgment. Everyone who does fulfill the law of Sabbath Rest through faith has that debt of law nailed to the cross and marked 'paid in full'.
Faith did not destroy the law of Sabbath Rest. It fulfills it. But faith does lay aside the old way that requirement of the law had to be fulfilled in order to not die.
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Jethro Bodine
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Actually, I think it is you who has missed the point of the gospel:
"32 "And we preach to you the good news (the gospel) of the promise made to the fathers, 33 that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus...
38 "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren *, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses." (Acts 13:32,38-39 NASB)
The law was powerless to justify fallen flesh. It had limited powers to justify (make one righteous) because it had no provision for a complete and lasting forgiveness. So what the law wasn't able to do God did by sending Christ and justifying fallen flesh, completely and forever, through faith in his blood. That is what the law was powerless to do.
Jethro Bodine
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Hmmm.....I know it probably doesn't mean much to you being scripture and all, but Paul seems to have a different opinion about that:
"21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets" (Romans 3:21 NASB)
I don't know what little voices you're listening to that you hold above scripture, but when those voices contradict the written word of God they're not voices from God.
Corn Pop
Member
- Feb 17, 2013
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All God wants is a personal friendship. And if there was a specific day to rest, it would be a saturday.
A day is also a thousand years to God and he said rest the 7th. So i will work 6000 years then, even i will only last about 50, and i will have my sabbath in another 6965 years.
- Jul 13, 2012
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Laws such as animal sacrifices, food laws, Sabbath requirements such as put to death the one who gathers sticks to kindle a fire, clothing laws,feast days which pointed to Christ.... Are no longer laws or commandments that are required under the New Covenant.
Another words, it's not a sin to eat pork chops.
Jesus has declared that all foods from all nations are pure.
Paul said it this way, there is nothing unclean of itself.
Likewise, One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes itto the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. Romans 14:5-6
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,871
- 8,140
Laws such as animal sacrifices, food laws, Sabbath requirements such as put to death the one who gathers sticks to kindle a fire, clothing laws,feast days which pointed to Christ.... Are no longer laws or commandments that are required under the New Covenant.
Another words, it's not a sin to eat pork chops.
Jesus has declared that all foods from all nations are pure.
Paul said it this way, there is nothing unclean of itself.
Likewise, One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes itto the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. Romans 14:5-6
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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Yes the scripture clearly states here the righteousness apart from the law...
Apart from the law means disconnected from the law of Moses.
Which makes sense, that trying to keep an obsolete law is useless in the way of being right with God.
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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Yes. Not the law itself, but the requirement of obedience: to Love God by loving your neighbor.
The Torah and the Prophets all come down to obedience to love God, and loving your neighbor.
This was the case long before the law was added, and remains today after the law has been nailed to the cross.
The law of Moses and the law of faith both have the same weight of requirement; Obedience.
Therefore the obedience of faith upholds, the obedience to do all the law.
Obey the Gospel = Obey the law
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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Amen.
J
jocor
Guest
Animal sacrifices, yes since Yeshua fulfilled them. The death penalty for breaking the Sabbath, no. Vengeance belongs to Yahweh. He will carry out the death penalty at His discretion at the appointed time. The rest? Wishful thinking.
He did no such thing. Provide a reference.
The Greek word used in Romans 14:14 means "common," not "unclean."
You are reading Yahweh's holy days and unclean meat into the text. I prefer not to break hermeneutical principles in that way.
Jethro Bodine
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- Oct 31, 2011
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The point is not that the righteousness from God is a different righteousness. In context we see that Paul is referring to a different source of righteousness:
3 For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." (Romans 10:3-4 NASB)
It's the difference between being declared righteous through keeping the law, and being declared righteous as a gift freely given from God. Christ is the end of the law as a source of righteousness. But many misunderstand it to mean the end of the law, period. But we see the authors of the New Testament teaching the church the law of Moses, even quoting it in their instruction, not ending it outright.
- Jul 13, 2012
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Its interesting that you validate a person's belief about keeping the law, even while they deny Jesus is Lord YHWH, which is the basic foundational requirement of obeying the Gospel.
I have never seen you say to the law keepers that they are teaching the "damnable works Gospel", but if I teach word for word what Paul said in Romans 10:9-10, that we are to confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus.... Then I'm teaching legalism.
Your doctrine requires keeping the law of Moses, yet confessing Jesus as Lord is legalism... And the the little voices I'm listening to are not from God ?
That's hilarious.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
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How is 'love your neighbor as yourself' before the law of Moses a different law of 'love your neighbor as yourself' written down in the law of Moses such that one is now obsolete and the other is not? What makes them different?
How can you say the law of Moses is obsolete but then turn right around and say we obey it?