salvation and the loss of it

[Cygnus]

That is not what i read in Scripture. The translation you use may read differently then mine, which translation do you use?
i most always use KJ

Then what do you read?

 

[Cygnus]

That would be like Noah, who was instructed to build an ark, saying the instruction is enough to save me and my family. I don't need to build an ark. Let's say Christ is the ark, and Jesus is saying come into the ark and you will be saved. Some hear and they follow his instruction. They are his sheep. Some hear and they forget. Some say the ark will save them, but they will not enter. Some can't be instructed at all. And many are just playing with words.

Sounds like surface theology to me. Dig deeper. Why would one hear and follow while another doesn't? What's different between the two?

 

[reba]

If a true believer "lost" their faith....then it could bee said "deception"" snatched them out of Jesus' hand. BUT, Jesus said nothing could do the snatching.. .Which would include deception.

Then what do you read?

show me the word nothing ? That is why i asked about your translation .

 

[reba]

Then what do you read?

the Scripture

 

[FreeGrace]

If a true believer "lost" their faith....then it could bee said "deception"" snatched them out of Jesus' hand. BUT, Jesus said nothing could do the snatching.. .Which would include deception.

Correct. Not even deception can remove a person from God's hand. Including the person themself.

 

[FreeGrace]

There is something to be said about not reading into a passage, but just letting it speak for itself.

Which is why I am convinced of eternal security. Jesus said that recipients of eternal life will never perish. Jn 10:28

That very much speaks for itself.

It may not say the words "you will loose salvation", but that is based on the fact Paul assumed the reader knew that it's only in Christ we have salvation.

If salvation could be lost, then the Bible would have said so in very plain language.

So Paul is either saying they can leave the faith and remain in Christ, or he is saying they cannot.

He made very clear that the gifts of God are irrevocable, including eternal life. Since he never excluded that gift from Rom 11:29.

Can a person leave the faith and remain in Christ?

They can't get out. Jesus promised that "no one" can remove a saved person from His hand. John 10:28

And Paul taught that from having believed, the person is sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit GUARANTEEING our inheritance for the day of redemption, as God's possession.

So, please explain what a "deposit that guarantees" means.

Then, please explain what "guarantees our inheritance" means or refers to.

Finally, please explain what "the day of redemption" means or refers to.

We don't need to explain what "God's possession" means. All who have believed.

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you believe a person can be alienated and hostile toward God in Christ?

That would describe a rebellious child. We see it in human relationships all the time.

There is no reason to discount that occurrence in spiritual relationships.

Isa 1:19-20
19 If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword." For the mouth of the Lord has spoken

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes. Fellowship might be harmed....but not salvational position.

 

[Cygnus]

show me the word nothing ? That is why i asked about your translation .

You're right...it says no one....which would include the person presenting the deception. That deceiving person is trying to snatch a christian from Jesus' hand.

 

[MarkT]

Sounds like surface theology to me. Dig deeper. Why would one hear and follow while another doesn't? What's different between the two?

Different men. Different spirits. Not every spirit is of God.

 

[reba]

You're right...it says no one....which would include the person presenting the deception. That deceiving person is trying to snatch a christian from Jesus' hand.

I would agree the deceiver is trying to snatch us from His hand..

 

[Nathan]

Yes. Fellowship might be harmed....but not salvational position.

A believer who is in Christ hostile and alienated from God?

Unbelievable, impossible, unbiblical.

 

[reba]

Why would Jesus warn us about being deceived
Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 

[Cygnus]

A believer who is in Christ hostile and alienated from God?

Unbelievable, impossible, unbiblical.

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

 

[Cygnus]

Why would Jesus warn us about being deceived
Mar 13:5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
Mar 13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Is Jesus warning us about being deceived out of our salvation?

 

[FreeGrace]

Why would Jesus warn us about being deceived

Deceivers lead believers away from the Lord.

 

[reba]

Deceivers lead believers away from the Lord.

and what difference does that make?

 

[Cygnus]

Deceivers lead believers away from the Lord

.....but not out of salvation.

 

[reba]

what difference does it make?

 

[Cygnus]

what difference does it make?

If you can lose your salvation...pretty big diff.