Salvation by faith alone/only?

[Grubal Muruch]

gm



This thread is not about me, its about Christ and what He accomplished.

1 peter 3:15---But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 peter 3:15---But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

This thread is not about me, but about Christ ! And I have given ample reasons for my Hope by the Threads I have began here, read them..

 

[Grubal Muruch]

This thread is not about me, but about Christ ! And I have given ample reasons for my Hope by the Threads I have began here, read them..

With all due respect you "have not given a personal testimony as to why you believe your saved...Remember the Bible says, "you must be born-again..." You can't be truly saved unless your Born again...

 

[jasoncran]

I assume no such thing. I see no difference between how God was in the Old versus the New Testament. God does not change. My argument with Joe is that a perfect sacrifice was required by God's perfect Justice. I've also stated quite clearly, I thought, that God looks at the heart of man, and must see repentance before mercy is dispensed. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it than I have already.

Since God is Holy, He will not abide sin in His presence. Thus the need for the Lamb without Blemish to satisfy God's law that demands death for sin. "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ez. 18:20. That's what God says. In order to pay that requirement of God's law, Jesus had to come. Now, what is your argument with that. I've been arguing with Joe about that for pages and pages. So, you tell me. What's the problem?

david was a man after gods own heart! and yet he sinned.

god doesnt let sin slide but if a man who did sinned like david and confessed and went to the priest and prophet etc what would happen? he would be forgiven.


the cross is the new way of being forgiven. it was to do away with the animals , it worked the means to replace the way of the getting forgiven.

funny thing is the way you state that it seems that you assume that all the ot saints are in hell as they never knew christ.

so they had to hear christ in order to be right with god?

abraham.s bossom is a place where the righteous dead went in sheol. hmm and that is where david went and the others.

the reason jesus had to be perfect was well he was god and also to be able to do the law and be the high priest and inteceded for our behalf , in fact he is the new sacrifice for our sins. he died for us.

when we repents its as if we are sacrificising the blood of the lamb to god.

the question for you is where did the ot saints go? how could jesus have said this for if ye had known moses ye would believe me for he spoke of me.

moses sinned and died for that sin. he couldnt enter the promised land.

 

[Eventide]

The just shall live by faith...

I've been thinking about the discussion going on with respect to God requiring perfection.. and imo He does.. here's why..

All in Adam are under the same condemnation, every last one of us, and we're justified ONLY by faith in the Last Adam, our Lord Jesus Christ.

This was true in the OT as well as in the NT.. that the just (or justified) shall live by faith.

This is true with respect to the Christian also.. it's not their old life (old man) which is justified before God, it's the life of Christ IN THEM that is justified before God.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: The just shall live by faith...

I've been thinking about the discussion going on with respect to God requiring perfection.. and imo He does.. here's why..

All in Adam are under the same condemnation, every last one of us, and we're justified ONLY by faith in the Last Adam, our Lord Jesus Christ.

This was true in the OT as well as in the NT.. that the just (or justified) shall live by faith.

This is true with respect to the Christian also.. it's not their old life (old man) which is justified before God, it's the life of Christ IN THEM that is justified before God.

That's true. Good point...

 

[Eventide]

Re: The just shall live by faith...

That's true. Good point...

I think it's true, and I also think that it's one of the things hard to be understood, written by the Apostle Paul.. because I often get the impression that many believe that God is actually making us better.. rather than condemning us and justifying CHRIST in us... our hope of glory.

 

[glorydaz]

david was a man after gods own heart! and yet he sinned.

god doesnt let sin slide but if a man who did sinned like david and confessed and went to the priest and prophet etc what would happen? he would be forgiven.


the cross is the new way of being forgiven. it was to do away with the animals , it worked the means to replace the way of the getting forgiven.

I didn't say God let sin slide. I said he overlooked sin until the work of the cross was accomplished. I got that right from the Word.

funny thing is the way you state that it seems that you assume that all the ot saints are in hell as they never knew christ.

so they had to hear christ in order to be right with god?

No, I do not assume that at all. The Gospel was preached to Abrahmam.

And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

All the OT believers are waiting for us to join them on the Day of the Lord.

abraham.s bossom is a place where the righteous dead went in sheol. hmm and that is where david went and the others.

I believe that, as well. When the work of the cross was finished Christ took them with Him.
Which is why they "rejoiced" to see that day.

the reason jesus had to be perfect was well he was god and also to be able to do the law and be the high priest and inteceded for our behalf , in fact he is the new sacrifice for our sins. he died for us.

when we repents its as if we are sacrificising the blood of the lamb to god.

Can't disagree with any of that. He also had to be perfect because only a spotless Lamb of God would pay the debt of sin for us. He was our Atonement.

[quote="jasoncran]the question for you is where did the ot saints go? how could jesus have said this for if ye had known moses ye would believe me for he spoke of me.

moses sinned and died for that sin. he couldnt enter the promised land.[/quote]

I hope I've answered this for you in the above.

 

[reba]

I didn't say God let sin slide. I said he overlooked sin until the work of the cross was accomplished. I got that right from the Word.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: The just shall live by faith...

I think it's true, and I also think that it's one of the things hard to be understood, written by the Apostle Paul.. because I often get the impression that many believe that God is actually making us better.. rather than condemning us and justifying CHRIST in us... our hope of glory.

It's both. What you said before is absolutely correct, but He is also making us "better". We are being sanctified.

We're being transformed into the image of the Son....being made holy and set apart to God.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[glorydaz]

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

And He did destroy them, too, didn't He? Except for Noah etal, of course. It's interesting reading through the Word and seeing how many times God repented. He actually changes His mind...especially with Israel, where we see Him calling down judgment and then changing His mind. Often it was when righteous men called on Him to show mercy and the people of Israel repented.

 

[Eventide]

Re: The just shall live by faith...

It's both. What you said before is absolutely correct, but He is also making us "better". We are being sanctified.

We're being transformed into the image of the Son....being made holy and set apart to God.

I don't think so glory.. we're to PUT OFF our old man who is corrupt according to deceitful lusts, and put on the Lord Jesus Christ..

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet NOT I, but Christ liveth in me..

Set your affections on things above, and not on the things on earth, for ye are DEAD and your life is hid in Christ with God.

etc etc etc..

There is the FLESH and the SPIRIT..

Flesh is condemned and the SPIRIT of Christ in us is justified.

Can a man serve TWO masters... if God is making us better, and Christ is IN US.. then who is in charge..? Who sits on the throne of our life.. me and Christ or is it Christ in me.. ?

 

[childeye]

And He did destroy them, too, didn't He? Except for Noah etal, of course. It's interesting reading through the Word and seeing how many times God repented. He actually changes His mind...especially with Israel, where we see Him calling down judgment and then changing His mind. Often it was when righteous men called on Him to show mercy and the people of Israel repented.

An outstanding observation, everyone should read this.

 

[jasoncran]

why then does jonah say god is slow to anger, and also moses and in the judgment of isreal( in lamentions) does jeremaih say that his mercy is new every morning.

god is long suffering per peter.

 

[reba]

Cain messed up killing able the life goes on tell the time of Noah how many years before God ended it? With out doing any math we know Noah was over 600 years old..He is longsuffering just by looking at my life.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: The just shall live by faith...

I don't think so glory.. we're to PUT OFF our old man who is corrupt according to deceitful lusts, and put on the Lord Jesus Christ..

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet NOT I, but Christ liveth in me..

Set your affections on things above, and not on the things on earth, for ye are DEAD and your life is hid in Christ with God.

etc etc etc..

There is the FLESH and the SPIRIT..

Flesh is condemned and the SPIRIT of Christ in us is justified.

Can a man serve TWO masters... if God is making us better, and Christ is IN US.. then who is in charge..? Who sits on the throne of our life.. me and Christ or is it Christ in me.. ?

At times people only see us, that's for darn sure. lol

I guess that's why I put quotation marks around "better". We are better because people see Christ in us, and we are "being transformed" and "being made holy" by the renewing of our mind. I certainly won't disagree with anything you've written above. When we're IN Christ we are hid from men, and they see Christ in us. At least that's my understanding. What people, hopefully, see is Christ being worked out in us as our mind is transformed into His image. It's a complicated business...especially to try and explain, anyway. ;)

 

[glorydaz]

Cain messed up killing able the life goes on tell the time of Noah how many years before God ended it? With out doing any math we know Noah was over 600 years old..He is longsuffering just by looking at my life.

No doubt God is long-suffering. We need only look at Israel to see that.
You can almost hear it here as God speaks.
[quote="Matthew 23:37]O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not![/quote]

Long-suffering is only one of God's attributes, though. I think it fits best under grace -unmerited favor.

While they are in the "ye would not" stage, though, God would not extend mercy. His mercy is conditional on repentance else His righteous requirements for Justice would not be met.

"How often would I have gathered", shows how God is willing to extend mercy, but won't until they repent.

Since mercy is withheld punishment...the Jews will have to continue in bondage (just as when we're in bondage to sin) until they repent. At which time, God extends mercy.

 

[glorydaz]

why then does jonah say god is slow to anger, and also moses and in the judgment of isreal( in lamentions) does jeremaih say that his mercy is new every morning.

god is long suffering per peter.

Ah yes, Lamentations. This is the mourning over the destruction of Israel.

God has "thrown down, and not pitied", we see God's Justice when Israel "would not" obey God.

The LORD hath done that which he had devised; he hath fulfilled his word that he had commanded in the days of old: he hath thrown down, and hath not pitied: and he hath caused thine enemy to rejoice over thee, he hath set up the horn of thine adversaries.

It's God's mercy that punishment has been withheld...that they haven't been consumed.

It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.

 

[jasoncran]

Ah yes, Lamentations. This is the mourning over the destruction of Israel.

God has "thrown down, and not pitied", we see God's Justice when Israel "would not" obey God.


It's God's mercy that punishment has been withheld...that they haven't been consumed.

either way isnt that what jesus does. you deny the idea of arniminists position on salvation can be lost. so then you and those like you must do head gymanastics on those verses where salavation is stated that one can loose it.

or do what pastor rogers says.

if one doesnt repent while saved God will eventually kill you and used moses and annias and saphira to make his point. so God let sin in? i have heard others say a similiar things here and elsewhere." you will make to heaven but get no reward or the famous well you didnt really repent thing"

 

[francisdesales]

Nope...you guessed wrong again. The only thing I've been shown by you is a spirit of contention. I really don't care to hear how galled I make you, or how I'm cheerleading someone if I say Amen. It's the little things that add up to my being reluctant to even read what you have to say. I try, but I can't seem to get too far before I just start shaking my head. It really shouldn't be this way, Joe, because I know you're a pretty nice guy at heart. There have been times when I'm actually quite fond of you, but it isn't worth it when you get so .....offensive, I guess, is the word I'm looking for.

Where is the Scritpures I have been asking for?

Is this a spirit of contention? to ask for Scriptural support? Why aren't you giving me any?

It is apparent to me why you aren't giving Scriptures and have resorted to complaining about how I post. You can't make a Scripturally supportive argument.

Regards